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Author Topic: Who is Asatruar?  (Read 5779 times)
Norsedescent
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« Topic Start: November 13, 2010, 08:44:59 pm »

"Who is Asatruar?"
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« Reply #1: November 14, 2010, 02:59:10 am »

Hi, Norsedescent,

A side note:  Your avatar does not meet our requirements.  Our avatar guidelines specify that avatars may not be larger than 128 pixels wide by 200 tall and must be 10kb or less in file size.  I have to ask you to please either reduce the size of your current avatar or find a different one that complies with our rules.  (If you need help with either of these things, consider posting in the Avatar Helpers thread or the Board Questions, Suggestions and Feedback board.  We have several members who can lend a hand.)

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« Reply #2: November 14, 2010, 02:36:22 pm »

"Who is Asatruar?"
Hi! I am Heathen, as are several others here. Do you have a specific question or something? We also have the Asatru and Heathenry Special Interest Group board you might check out.

Welcome to TC!
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« Reply #3: November 14, 2010, 07:56:53 pm »

"Who is Asatruar?"


Welcome Norsedescent!

Wow, I can't get over the fact your 13. Don't take that as an insult, I think it's cool!

Hope you enjoy this place.  Cheesy
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« Reply #4: November 16, 2010, 10:49:04 pm »

I am an Asatruar!

I would say I am not considered "Folkish" in the contemporary sense.  I still consider myself a hard polytheist, in that, I believe the Gods/esses are not Pantheistic, but have their own distinctive qualities and personalities as described in the Edda's and based on what is currently known of the old Norse Religion.

The reason I am considered not folkish is because today that term usually refers to White Supremacist, White Nationalist, Racialist, Fascist, or any other Ultra-nationalistic current, using the excuse that the original Germanic Gods are what the White race ought to be, and I see it as sort of a reaction  against the perceived threat of Christianity, due to it's Semitic roots, and thus they view it as foreign invaders planned b y Jews or some other conspiracy bullcrap.


So in a nutshell, I am not racist nor a White Nationalist, and thus, by those who claim to be Folkish Asatruar or Odinists, I am not because I am a race traitor.


Bear in mind, I do not harbor positive feelings towards Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or Zoroastrianism, but I do not hold these opionons based on racial qualities such as Islam = Arabs, Judaism = Israelites and Zionists, Zoro = Persians, etc. I hold these views because I see that the Monotheistic, Abrahamic religions are inherently totalitarian, authoritarian, and utterly nihilistic. Nihilistic because according to Islam, which means "submission" in Arabic, you must devote you soul, your life, and your mindset to your God, and anything that would go against these doctrines (ie, Homosexuality, Abortion, etc.) are thus evil because it would break the word of God.

This is a main reason why I choose Paganism over Abrahamic religions. The dogma inputted is outstandingly geared towards mind control and indoctrination, to create the followers as nothing but empty shells whose sole purpose is too devote every aspect of their lives to the one true God.

Polytheistic Pagan religions, at least most that I know of, ask of no such thing. Free will is not something created by the Gods, or given to us by Gods, it is simply a trait of all thinking life, once the evolutionary path has permitted the developed species to achieve self awareness. All the Gods ask of us, is to honor them on the holy days, live in harmony with nature and your surroundings, and to live your life according to how you wish to live it, not how the "creator" says you should exist.

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« Reply #5: November 17, 2010, 01:08:47 am »

I would say I am not considered "Folkish" in the contemporary sense.  I still consider myself a hard polytheist, in that, I believe the Gods/esses are not Pantheistic, but have their own distinctive qualities and personalities as described in the Edda's and based on what is currently known of the old Norse Religion.

The reason I am considered not folkish is because today that term usually refers to White Supremacist, White Nationalist, Racialist, Fascist, or any other Ultra-nationalistic current, using the excuse that the original Germanic Gods are what the White race ought to be, and I see it as sort of a reaction  against the perceived threat of Christianity, due to it's Semitic roots, and thus they view it as foreign invaders planned b y Jews or some other conspiracy bullcrap.

So in a nutshell, I am not racist nor a White Nationalist, and thus, by those who claim to be Folkish Asatruar or Odinists, I am not because I am a race traitor.
Now you got me interested.
Why is the mentioned considered to be folkish?
I know several Asatruans, and all of them share your view almost to the letter (actually I share your view though I'm Slavic pagan - perhaps because Slavic pagans and Asatruans were neighbors for so long we understand each other well?), but hold the folklore in high regard.
Is what are you writing about some local division of Asatruans where you live, or is it applied by Asatruans worldwide?



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« Reply #6: November 17, 2010, 02:08:18 am »

Now you got me interested.
Why is the mentioned considered to be folkish?
I know several Asatruans, and all of them share your view almost to the letter (actually I share your view though I'm Slavic pagan - perhaps because Slavic pagans and Asatruans were neighbors for so long we understand each other well?), but hold the folklore in high regard.
Is what are you writing about some local division of Asatruans where you live, or is it applied by Asatruans worldwide?






Well I will try to explain as best as I can.


I aspire to be a member of "The Troth", a Heathen group in North America. They have produced the books "Our Troth" Volumes 1 and 2.

Here is a link to their book:
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Troth-Living-2/dp/1419636146
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Troth-History-Kveldulf-Gundarsson/dp/1419635980/ref=pd_sim_b_1
Their site:
http://www.thetroth.org/


Now here is the thing:

Heathenry is sort of divided into two extremes, kind of like the political spectrum of Left Wing or Right Wing. Left Wing being more liberal, possibly Socialist and the Far Left being Communism. The Right Wing is more conservative, possibly Nationalistic and Strongly Conservative, and the Far Right being Fascist and National Socialist.

However, the scale of Heathenry is divided into "Folkish" on the right, and "Universalist" on the left. Think of the Troth being kind of on the center-left scale.

Now, from what I have experienced, the Folkish, or more right winged, are more concerned with being "Hard" polytheists and reconstructionists. These people believe that the Gods are very real, and very distinct, but they also believe that the only people who should really practice this religion are those of Scandinavian or Germanic ancestry. They try to live by the old rituals and ways of the Norse as much as possible, and as much as the law permits (thus excluding human sacrifice and Viking funerals). But these organizations usually only accept those of Germanic blood, saying that all people should practice the indigenous religion of their ancestors. They believe the Gods are not Pantheistic, thus meaning, these Gods are not representations of other cultures Gods, or in other words, should not be equated with another cultures Gods. Example: They believe Thor is NOT just the Norse version of say Ukko or another cultures God of lighting and thunder, no matter how similar they are. They believe their God's are distinct, they are their own, and they belong to the Norse Pantheon, and the Norse Pantheon are not reflections of other cultures Gods. But the Folkish tend to put a touch on racialism. Now the Far-Folkish (Far-Right), are usually National Socialists (Nazis) or some other kind of White Supremacist. They believe in the Gods of the Norse, but also are fierce Nazi's and other racists. If you watch any documentary on the Aryan Brotherhood ( a White prison gang in America), you will notice that many members have Mjollnir tattoos as well as Runic tattoos. These guys tend to dislike the term Asatru, and use term Odinism. The Odinic Rite, I believe might be a leading organization of these values.


Now, we have the Universalist side. The difference is, that these people tend to be non-racist, and these organizations, such as the Troth, accept members from any race or background. These guys can vary different in their beliefs. They can be hard polytheists, Pantheists, or even Atheists who merely believe that the Gods are symbolic. And I have seen people who practice Norse Wicca! These guys tend to be more liberal, and accepting of anyone who wishes to follow the Germanic path, yet also shape their own beliefs around the Norse Pantheon.


So it basically comes down not to Hard vs Soft Polytheists, but Racists vs Non-Racists. Sad that such a beautiful religion is perverted by so much hate. As you can see, I am would fall on the Universalist side because I am not racist, but I still retain the Hard polytheist approach. I believe most members of the Troth are also Hard Polytheists.

To sum it all up, when talking Folkish, people tend to mean more racially and ethnically inclined (eg. Germanic or Whites only) although this is not fact, this is merely the observation that I have come up with as have many other peoples.

Universalists are usually non-Racist and more eclectic, yet still shape their beliefs around the Norse Pantheon.


I believe the Odinic Rite is and Asatru Alliance is racially inclined.   <------ Folkish
I believe that the Asatru Folk Assembly and the Troth are not.      <-------- Universalist

I hope this answers your question!

Also, Slavic Paganism is awesome! I love Slavic myths, as well as Finnish Paganism!
It is cool to see how related our ancestors religions were!  Smiley
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« Reply #7: November 17, 2010, 07:27:46 am »


Oh .. my.  Um.

First of all, your characterizations of Christianity et al strike me as .. way off base.  Yes, there are GROUPS that act that way, but not the entire religious spectrum.  (f'ex, it's totally off on Judaism.  Don't know enough about Islam to really say)

As far as Pagan gods telling you to live your life how you wish it .. seems to me there are TONS of myths that involve people getting smackdown for not honoring their gods appropriately.  Live in harmony with our surroundings .. again, doesn't fit most mythologies I can think of.  Most of them are more about taking CONTROL of the environment, not living in harmony with it!  Living in harmony with nature is very much a modern concept. .. and not usually an Asatru one.
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« Reply #8: November 17, 2010, 07:57:46 am »

Now, from what I have experienced, the Folkish, or more right winged, are more concerned with being "Hard" polytheists and reconstructionists. These people believe that the Gods are very real, and very distinct, but they also believe that the only people who should really practice this religion are those of Scandinavian or Germanic ancestry.

In my experience, there are hard polytheists and soft polytheists in both the folkish and universalist camps. The real divide is on who should be Asatruar and at the further right one goes the more this manifests as very obvious racism and white supremest nonsense.
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« Reply #9: November 17, 2010, 08:25:16 am »

...
This is a main reason why I choose Paganism over Abrahamic religions. The dogma inputted is outstandingly geared towards mind control and indoctrination, to create the followers as nothing but empty shells whose sole purpose is too devote every aspect of their lives to the one true God.

Ummm...in a word...No. 

The Abrahamic religions, at least in my experience, encourage questioning.  In my time as a Christian I was never encouraged to shut up and be indoctrinated - I was told that questioning was important as it was only through discussion that I would be able to make a decision about committing to God. 

I'm certain some of our other members can comment better than I on the aspect of questioning as part of Judaism and Islam.



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« Reply #10: November 17, 2010, 09:27:06 am »

I think others have got onto your first post, and I wholeheartedly agree with what's been said. Just wanted to make a comment on your second post.

This is quite a simplified answer... folkish does not = racist. It comes mighty close, and depends on your tolerance of gray areas, but I don't personally think it's that clear cut. See here for a discussion on this forum about it. You can also find good info on www.asatrulore.org.
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« Reply #11: November 17, 2010, 01:38:50 pm »

Oh .. my.  Um.

First of all, your characterizations of Christianity et al strike me as .. way off base.  Yes, there are GROUPS that act that way, but not the entire religious spectrum.  (f'ex, it's totally off on Judaism.  Don't know enough about Islam to really say)

As far as Pagan gods telling you to live your life how you wish it .. seems to me there are TONS of myths that involve people getting smackdown for not honoring their gods appropriately.  Live in harmony with our surroundings .. again, doesn't fit most mythologies I can think of.  Most of them are more about taking CONTROL of the environment, not living in harmony with it!  Living in harmony with nature is very much a modern concept. .. and not usually an Asatru one.

I am sorry if I offended you with my sayings.

I do not hate Christians, Muslims, or Jews. I guess I am wrong on my statements on Judaism, but in my experience, when my family and I took a trip to Israel in Tel Aviv, we saw that the Zionist Jews were very anti-Christian, with anti-Islamic and anti-Christian literature in many book stores.

But of course not all Jews are like this, and not all Jews are Zionists. 

I was raised Roman Catholic, and during Catechism some teachers got angry when the students questioned certain Bible passages, such as Noah's Ark. One kid asked how was it possible for Noah to fit all those animals onto the ark, and the teachers reply was simply, "The Bible states it as truth. God told Noah to build an ark, and he followed God's word, just as all of us should."

Now I know that many Roman Catholics do not take the Genesis account literally, but even if you question it, we were expected to follow it, even if we had opposition to it.

I will also take back my earlier statement. I stated that because I did not know of a particular story where one gets smited (or some other equivalent) for not believing or following the words of the Old Gods. I do not know all the myths. I am still reading the Edda's so if there is such a story in Norse Paganism, thank you for enlightening me on that.

As for living in harmony with nature, yes that is a very modern concept. When I made that statement, I was referring to Asatru (the modern Recon. religion) as opposed to the actual ancient Norse religion.

This is quite a simplified answer... folkish does not = racist. It comes mighty close, and depends on your tolerance of gray areas, but I don't personally think it's that clear cut. See here for a discussion on this forum about it. You can also find good info on

Yes I know that Folkish is not inherently racist, and does not mean racist. As I see it, Folkish just means they try to reconstruct in according to what little we know of the ancient Norse religion as much as possible, which is why some Folkish people try to distance themselves from the term "Asatru". We have those who call it Odinism, Theodism ( an offspring of Wicca, yet not Norse Wicca. This one is interesting because it encompasses a sort of, what they call, "Tribal" way of worshiping. I do not now know much more.) You have people who call it Forn Siğr ( I do not know much of this ). 

Some women just practice what is called "Seidr", which is sort of like Norse Sorcery, or their own Shamanistic magical path. Although I believe during Norse times, it could only be practiced by women.


So what I am trying to say is: I am sorry if I offended any followers of Judaism, Christianity or Islam. I do not know much of Judaism or Islam, so forgive me for my ignorance and my false comments. As for Christianity, it could have just been the teacher. I have met many wonderful Christians who are very intelligent ( my AP World History teacher being one of the smartest men I have ever met who really taught me many philosophical ideals, who was a Union leader and a devout Roman Catholic, who even bashed the Catholic Church when we were discussing the Middle Ages ) I based my opinion on merely "rumors" of Abrahamic religion and some unprecedented Nietzsche and Richard Dawkins, and so I was wrong.

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« Reply #12: November 17, 2010, 02:42:34 pm »


Sounds like you had a bad Sunday-school teacher .. as I understand it, Catholics aren't SUPPOSED to take Genesis literally.  Not positive on that, but pretty sure.

and I really hate ANY teacher that does the hand-wave of "it says so so shut up and listen".... you learn by questioning.  sheesh.  (the sheesh at your teacher, not you)
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« Reply #13: November 17, 2010, 03:12:16 pm »

Well I will try to explain as best as I can.
You've obviously put a lot of effort and time in the explanation, and I thank you for that.  Smiley
And thank you for the links. I will look into them.

I hope this answers your question!
Yes it does. Thank you.
Just to check, should the term folkish maybe replaced with ethnic oriented?

Also, Slavic Paganism is awesome! I love Slavic myths, as well as Finnish Paganism!
It is cool to see how related our ancestors religions were!  Smiley
Thank you for your kind words.  Smiley
I will revive some topics about Slavic religion on this forum, as soon as I found some time, but after I answer some current discussions. Free time is sort of a luxury for me.  Sad
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« Reply #14: November 17, 2010, 03:19:08 pm »

First of all, your characterizations of Christianity et al strike me as .. way off base.  Yes, there are GROUPS that act that way, but not the entire religious spectrum.  (f'ex, it's totally off on Judaism.  Don't know enough about Islam to really say)
Apart form nihilism AlecEinWindirs' characterizations resembles my experience with Abrahamic religions and what's more important their teachings.

As far as Pagan gods telling you to live your life how you wish it .. seems to me there are TONS of myths that involve people getting smackdown for not honoring their gods appropriately.  Live in harmony with our surroundings .. again, doesn't fit most mythologies I can think of.  Most of them are more about taking CONTROL of the environment, not living in harmony with it!  Living in harmony with nature is very much a modern concept. .. and not usually an Asatru one.

I see where are you going with it, and you are right, but I would point out that the "honoring their gods appropriately" is more often than not honoring a certain moral code or respecting the nature.
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