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Home > Chat Logs > Summer Solstice (17 Jun 2003) Search

Chat Log:
Summer Solstice


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This is the log of The Cauldron's June 17, 2003 chat on our summer holidays and our plans, and how such holidays may have gotten started. This log may have been edited to remove extraneous comments.

artemis1823: Entered room.

Shadow: so, what do people do for summer holidays?

Shadow: hello

Star: Eh, join the club. ;)

Star: Hello!

empire10001: Hi, Artemis!

artemis1823: Hi people

Celeste621: hey artemis :)

KATNIPP59: Entered room.

Shadow: hello!

empire10001: Nothing special, here ... it's flying and gardening season, which is special enough for me!

Celeste621: hi katnipp

KATNIPP59: Hi everyone

empire10001: Hi, Katnipp!

Shadow: I'm debating doing something .. but I've no idea what, given that I don't follow the Wheel of the Year

artemis1823: hi katnipp

Celeste621: Same here, Shadow


Star: Me, I'll be mourning the days starting to get shorter again. :(

KATNIPP59: Lol Star me too

Shadow: though I'm contemplating celebrating the solstices, and Halloween/Beltaine, and not the other four

empire10001: I don't either ,,, though I do note the solstices and equinoxes, just on a personal level. -- ME, TOO! I hate getting up in the dark!

Shadow: heh .. I hate having it still be light when I'm trying to go to bed!

empire10001: Well, yeah ... how about we do away with Daylight Savings Time?

Star: HA!

Star: We already HAVE done away with it!

Shadow: mmm. that sounds nice

Star: In Indiana, Arizona, and Hawaii, anyway.

Shadow: only then I'd probably wake up at something like four AM

empire10001: Where are you? Delaware still has it!

Star: I'm in Indiana. :)

Shadow: I'm in Insanity ....

Shadow: :D

Star: Well, yes, that too

KATNIPP59: It's only part of In isn't it?

artemis1823: im in new hampshire and its nice

artemis1823: night around 7

Star: Most of the state, actually. I think there's a little bit down south that does DST, but most of the state doesn't.

Shadow: silly non-conformists!

KATNIPP59: It messes me up in the spring for some reason

Shadow: join us, you know you want to!

Shadow: be like the rest of us!

Star: Nooooo!

empire10001: It's still light here -- and would be lighter, if it weren't for the rain.

KATNIPP59: I don't have as much trouble dealing in the fall

Star: 7pm and will still be light for an hour or so here.

Shadow: silly rain!

empire10001: Moving forward loses an hour of sleep, which stinks ... at least in the fall, I get to sleep in an extra hour!

KATNIPP59: Ya I think TN is about to float away

empire10001: DE has a high water table to start with ... these days I'm afraid to fall down, or I'd drown! {G}

Shadow: .ACTION sleeps an extra hour now.

Shadow: TOPIC! ;) Summer celebrations?

Shadow: does anyone celebrate anything but drowning?

empire10001: Gardening! Finding tomato blossoms is good. :)

Star: Um... No?

Star: There's the 4th of July I guess. And Memorial Day. But nothing in June for me except Father's Day.

Shadow: my peas are running amok, they LOVE this weather!

empire10001: Well, our flying club picnic is right around the Solstice, and that's a great thing! It's Sunday, matter of fact.

Celeste621: I'm a bit confuzzled about solstice. I'd like to observe it a bit like the ancient semetic religions did, since the diety I'm working with is from this area, but I'm not familiar with the seasons of the mideast.

Shadow: mmm .. do you even know if they DID celebrate the Solstice?

Celeste621: Yes, it was a time of mourning for those who followed god/goddess pairs like Ishtar, Tammuz

Shadow: not everyone did, after all ..

Celeste621: Sounds more like fall to me, but I'm assuming the seasons might have significan't differences there, dunno

Shadow: well, I believe spring and fall were the growing seasons ..

Shadow: what mattered was the flooding of the rivers, not the sun

Shadow: so if the summer is hot and dry, and *deadly* .....

Star: Then wouldn't a time of mourning make sense?

Celeste621: Yes, it sounds like summer there would be the appropriate time for such a holiday

Shadow: especially the *beginning* of summer .. the beginning of the dry season

Shadow: .ACTION contemplates a dry season ......

Celeste621: Since things are a bit different here though, do you think it would be disrespectful to make it more approrpiate to this climate?

Shadow: heh .. depends on the God? ;)

Celeste621: I suppose

Star: Depends on the God and how closely you want to reconstruct the religion, I suppose.

Shadow: I think it might be disrespectful NOT to, if it's supposed to be centering around the *lean* times ....

Celeste621: Hm, I'll have to take your points into consideration, thanks.

Celeste621: Something to ponder.

Shadow: sure! advice-o-matic! :)

Shadow: use at own risk

Shadow: tm

Celeste621: :)

KATNIPP59: I think the dieties have a lot more common sense than most people give them credit for

Celeste621: lol I'm sure they do.

Tristan2006: Entered room.

artemis1823: agreed there

Shadow: I'd HOPE they do .. I'd hate to think Gods were less intellegent than humans!

empire10001: Me, I think it makes more sense to have seasonal celebrations in accordance with the local seasons. The Gods are ... er, ne'mind, Katnipp beat me to it.

KATNIPP59: Hi Tristan

Shadow: Tristan!

artemis1823: allo

Tristan2006: hey

empire10001: Heya, Tristan!

Celeste621: It's certainly much easier to appreciate the celebration and observances if you can see the changes with your own eyes, agreed.

Celeste621: Hi, Tristan. :)

Shadow: I think that's part of why the *summer* seasonal celebrations are so hard to connect to, now-a-days .. if we're not gardening, there's not the sense of *change*

Celeste621: Hm, might be

Shadow: even if we ARE gardening, the Solstice itself doesn't change anything .. plants are in, and we've a long way to go before there's a harvest!

empire10001: 'Deed it is! I'd feel silly celebrating Northern Hemisphere seasonal celebrations in the Southern Hemisphere , for instance.

Shadow: some people do, though. I must say, I don't understand how that works and doesn't feel quite silly

Tristan2006: so, what'd I miss so far...I would have to say I haven't celebrated any solstice holidays.

Shadow: thanks be to the harvest and Santa on a surfboard? ;)

empire10001: True, Shadow ... it's more of an astronomical change than anything else.

empire10001: LOL!

Celeste621: Not much, just some chitchat on observing seasonal holidays where the climate is different.

KATNIPP59: brb got to see hubby off to work

Shadow: kay

Tristan2006: hold on, lemme go check and see what greek holidays are coming up

Shadow: does anyone have ANY summer holidays?

Celeste621: oooh, that would be interesting

Shadow: do we all just sit around and eat all summer?

Shadow: oh, wait, that's me. *g*

Star: Well, I work, too.

Celeste621: lol

Shadow: oh you workers.

empire10001: ROFL! No, I celebrate summer in various ways, just not on any specific days.

Shadow: although I must say, I've been writing more and happier since the sun has come back and it's been warmer

empire10001: First Tomato of the Year is my personal biggie, I suppose. YUM!

Shadow: heh .. first flowers, first fruits, are both big ones for me

Star: Ooooh, that's a good one. And also strawberries. I don't have the time or energy for a garden, but Mom grows both of those things.

Celeste621: Yum

Shadow: I swear I practically do a jig in the yard when I first get a flower in the spring!

Star: And is always happy to share with her favourite (only) daughter.

empire10001: Yes! I start with First Crocus and go from there.

Shadow: and the first flower on a food plant. that's a biggy too

empire10001: Yup. I've got buds on my Siberia tomato plant ... should open Any Day Now!

empire10001: Basically, I suppose you could say that Spring and Summer (some Autumn thrown in as well) are a long, low-key celebration for me.

Tristan2006: okay, I know that Panathanaia is celebrated next month

Shadow: which one's that?

Tristan2006: and I know that the Athenic new year is the full or new moon after the summer solstice

Tristan2006: I can't remember, I'm such a bad greek recon

Shadow: heh. bad recon! no books!

Tristan2006: okay, I know that Kronia comes up soon as well

Tristan2006: and it is a festival in honor of freedom

Shadow: whazzat?

Shadow: oh.

Tristan2006: and the Panathenaia is a celebration of Athena's birthday

empire10001: That sounds like one Randall would be likely to celebrate. :)

Shadow: naw .. Randall? Worship Athena? nawwwww

Shadow: *giggle*

Tristan2006: no way

empire10001: ROFLMAO!

Tristan2006: I don't think he's very fond of her

Celeste621: Did the celebration of Kronia come from a specific event like July 4th?

Shadow: just some floofy Goddess chick.

Shadow: .ACTION waits for lightining.

Celeste621: I mean, like the fourth stems from an event for us, not that it came from our independence day :)

Tristan2006: lol

empire10001: .ACTION is glad she's well away from Shadow just in case.

Shadow: *giggle* why do SO many people fear getting hit by lightning from being too near me???

Celeste621: I'm not afraid. *adjusts her rubber boots*

artemis1823: lol

Shadow: :D

Tristan2006: possibly, the history of it is that to honor Kronos all slaves were freed and no bussiness happened. Also the masters would eat with the slaves

Tristan2006: I got my information from

Celeste621: Ah, thanks.

Tristan2006: it's on the cauldron website, in the greek reconstructionist file under hellenic calendar

Tristan2006: no wait, I mean hellenic polytheist notebook

Tristan2006: the other one is just a calendar with reference to our calendar

Tristan2006: brb, need food

Shadow: go eat!

empire10001: Food is good. :)

Celeste621: Duh, figures I would ask about something that's right there on the site.

Shadow: oh yes. food is WONDERFUL!

Star: Okies, I have to go. Am stuck at the "bad" computer, sitting in a hard, non-ergonomic chair. My back is killing me. If I can PRY Hubby away from his game of Black & White later I'll try to hop back in...

Shadow: good luck!

Star: Thanks!

Star: Laters!

Celeste621: bye

Star: Left room.

Shadow: wow, we're a bunch of non-holiday-y Pagans!

empire10001: On a slight topic slant, do y'all think picnics and such in summer are seasonal celebrations per se, or just taking advantage of good weather -- and if the latter, are they how seasonal special celebrations got started?

Shadow: how can I steal food ideas from y'all if you don't ahve them!

empire10001: Sorry for the long sentence!

Tristan2006: ok, I need to eat upstairs so I'll try and come in later

Shadow: mmm. I can see days where *everyone* would take off being how special celebrations might start

Shadow: 'kay, take care!

empire10001: I make a super deviled egg, if that counts.

Tristan2006: Left room.

Shadow: mmmmm

Celeste621: Hm, I think that picnics *can* be small celebrations of the season, sure.

Shadow: I don't think they're *formal* celebrations, but the desire to be outside is a celebration of sorts

empire10001: I would tend to agree, Shadow, but maybe your comment about "picnics" everyone shared came to take place at an astronomical time? After all, the "Ancients" were pretty durn good astronomers, and Midsummer would be an obvious time.

Shadow: and everyone loves a day off ... ;)

empire10001: Very true!

Shadow: it would probably depend on the region .. that would only make sense when Solstice is a *temperate* event ...

Shadow: makes sense in the North, but not in Greece, for instance!

empire10001: If you want my deviled egg "recipe", BTW, either post on the board or e-mail me to remind me.

Shadow: will do! yay, food

Shadow: come to think of it, I owe someone a recipe of something. Wish I could remember what

empire10001: I don't know ... astronomical events are pretty universal, and fairly obvious "year turnings". So they just make sense for periodic celebrations.

Shadow: mmm .. yes and no. I can see the Solstices a lot easier than the Equinoxes, for instance

artemis1823: Left room.

empire10001: True -- and every culture I'm aware of has MidSummer/MidWinter celebrations. But even the Equinoxes would be easy to spot or interpolate, if more than two seasonal celebrations were wanted.

Shadow: the extremes being more interesting than the midpoints, AND being a little more likely to not be work-days

Shadow: yeah, but no one has *balanced* holidays but Wicca and Wicca-like religions, IIRC

Shadow: EVERYONE else has a bunch in one area, and a lot less in the rest ....

Shadow: Christianity doesn't have a Midsummer, for instance

Shadow: come to think of it, Judaism really doesn't have a Midsummer OR Midwinter, that I can think of

empire10001: Not that I know of, no ... no big celebrations between Easter and All Saints, unless you maybe count Lady Day on 1 May.

empire10001: Hannukkah might be equivalent to MidWinter, sort of ... at least it usually falls around that time.

Shadow: even All Saints is really more Catholic than Christian, isn't it? do non-Catholics celebrate it?

Celeste621: I never did as a protestant

Shadow: yes, but Hannukkah is actually a fairly new holiday for having that level of prominence .. it's to counter the BIIIIG Christmas celebrations

Shadow: I didn't think so, but how would I know? ;)

Celeste621: We celebrated the secular Halloween, All Saints was seen as a "Catholic holiday"

empire10001: Well, when I was a kid, my Presbyterian Church had something ... could've been a variaton on Halloween, though.

Shadow: Hannukkah was MINOR until very recently. the New Year is in the .. Fall?

empire10001: Dunno ... I'm not that familiar with the Jewish calendar. My bad!

Celeste621: Really, I wasn't aware of that. Then again, I'm woefully ignorant about Jewish religon.

Shadow: me neither, which is odd, given my family

Shadow: my uncle's a Rabbi .. I SHOULD know a little ... ;)

Celeste621: lol

Shadow: and yet, I don't ......

empire10001: So ask him, and enlighten the rest of us! :)

Shadow: I BELIEVE their new year is in the fall, and if not, it's in the spring. it's NOT in the winter!

Shadow: heh .. I wouldn't know where to find him!

empire10001: Ah ... okay. Darn it!

Shadow: sowwy!

empire10001: My personal New Year is Yule, when the days start getting longer again!

Shadow: my personal New Year was the beginning of the school year .. I don't think I've adjusted in the .. five? years since I've graduated!

Shadow: dearest gods, has it been that long?? sheesh

empire10001: (Actually, at this latitude, it should be more like 15 January or thereabouts, but ... )

Shadow: *giggle*

empire10001: Youngster! {G}

Shadow: dat's me! just a little babyShadow!

Shadow: goo?

Shadow: are you my mother?

empire10001: I would be a very bad mommy, li'l girl ... count yourself lucky I'm just an honorary auntie!

Shadow: .ACTION bats BIIIIIG eyes at Ann.

Shadow: *sniffle* no Mommy?

Shadow: where's my Mommy? I'm too little to be out without a Mommy!

Shadow: you's a big meany poopiehead not being my mommy!

Shadow: so there!

empire10001: ::picks up Shadow:: Take it easy, kidlet ... Auntie Ann will take care of you till she gets back. ::sighs quietly::

Shadow: *giggle*

empire10001: So I'm a sucker for infants of any species ... I'd still be a lousy mother.

Celeste621: Alright, I'm off to grab some dinner. Have a good night, everybody. :)

Shadow: heh. s'okay, I'm actually able to mostly care for myself. I think.

Shadow: g'night!

Celeste621: Left room.

Shadow: what's with all these people eating so late???

empire10001: Gee, are we scaring everyone off?

Shadow: wasn't me!

Shadow: musta been that other Shadow

Shadow: she's scary!

empire10001: Or me ... my Scorpio side may've been showing.

Shadow: eeeew .. you might wanna get that cleaned .... ;)

empire10001: Nah ... I like it! Makes me feel like less of a wuss.

KATNIPP59: I'm back :)

Shadow: PEOPLE!

Shadow: .ACTION reels in shock at the thought.

KATNIPP59: uh should I duck?

Shadow: dunno, do you have feathers?

Shadow: can't be a duck without feathers

empire10001: Not just yet ... we aren't throwing thunderbolts or anything. {G}

Shadow: though I am still dodging ... ;)

KATNIPP59: LOL rubber ducks don't have feathers

Shadow: oooh .... good point

empire10001: Where the heck is everyone? Usually this time of night, it's jumping in here!

Shadow: are you rubbery?

Shadow: do you taste like chicken? ;)

Shadow: everyone hid from their lack of holiday celebrations?

Shadow: they all saw me yesterday and are justifyably frightened?

KATNIPP59: I would tell you what first came to mind.....

Shadow: ?????

empire10001: Yeah, could be ... I know I don't have much to contribute to such a discussion, and was hoping for ideas myself.

KATNIPP59: but this is the wrong place for that

Shadow: TEE HEE! Dirty thoughts, dirty thoughts, I made you have dirty thoughts! ;)

Shadow: ditto .. I really don't celebrate any holidays right now, so I've NOTHING useful to add ....


KATNIPP59: I celebrate yule and samhain

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