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Home > Chat Logs > What Do the Gods Want? (15 Jul 2003) Search

Chat Log:
What Do the Gods Want?


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This is the log of The Cauldron's July 15, 2003 chat, which was an exploration of the requests that Gods and the Divine make of their followers. This log may have been edited to remove extraneous comments.

Shadow: so, how do we learn what the Gods desire of us?

Shadow: DO they desire things from us? ;)

SahtYinepu: My Gods seem to want ... *thinks*... well, Sekhmet wants -blood-... that's about it.

Shadow: why?

SahtYinepu: I'm not entirely sure. I think it has to do with -why- She came into being.

empire10001: My deity seems to be wanting me to work on codifying a legal system I set up for some of my stories. Why, I have no idea.

SahtYinepu: In Egyptian theology (and, forgive me if I flub up on my history), Sekhmet was a face/form of Hathor. Made especially to smite those who "Dissed" Atum.

SahtYinepu: She was a little too good at her job, and had to be tricked into getting drunk just to spare humanity.

Shadow: so now she just wants more blood because she's used to it? or?

Shadow: Personally, I believe one of the things the Gods want the most is CONTACT with us ... the ability to interact

Mari: In the Gwyddoniad, we say that the gods want nothing more than to be our friends.

Mari: well, it goes deeper than that, but that's how we say it

Shadow: heh. friendship isn't a *nothing requested* concept, most of the time

SahtYinepu: It seems to be more the intent behind it than the actual substance. However, blood is her "Thing"

Mari: Depends on whom you're dealing with, imho.

Shadow: well, humans want something from THEIR friends, if only the pleasure of the company, that's still a *something wanted*

SahtYinepu: She's requested Beef before. That was intersesting enough. So, I burned a nice slab of rump roast to a cinder while having a merry time around the fire-pit.

SahtYinepu: Nothing like divining by the flames coming off of a slab of Beefalo. ;)

Shadow: *giggle*

Shadow: I think the Divine (the Force behind the Gods) wants to be ... loved is the best word I have. accepted might be more like it

Shadow: but at the same time, we are also being pushed to grow and develop .. and through us, the Divine itself grows and develops

SahtYinepu: Anubis, (when I first opened up to Him) said "I ask only that I be allowed." He's pretty much kept to that.

empire10001: You think it's like symbiosis? I do, myself.

Shadow: yes, I do. I also think that, at core, it isn't even symbiosis .. we and the Divine are all One Entity

SahtYinepu: I think that... we're of Them (whichever Them you're talking about) Matter is from the Energy from which They came, and our Souls are of that same Energy. We're brothers, sisters, and children.

Shadow: but that's at a level the human mind doesn't really get well. ;)

Mari: "There's only one Boundless Being" ......

empire10001: Well, yeah, Shadow ... we're all part of the Ultimate Creator, IMO.

Shadow: stay outta my head! ;)

Mari: nope

Mariora: hehe

Mari: brb. gotta hang the cat

Shadow: was talking to Ann. :P~~~~

SahtYinepu: We're stuck here, quite far (in an energetic sense) from where They are... They have to strain to reach us, and we have to strain to reach Them.

Shadow: have fun!

SahtYinepu: My "Hermetic" side comes from my belief that an original source (though unconcious) -became- All that Is.

Shadow: I think it's the fact of our biology, our material nature. It's REQUIRED, because only while incarnate can we grow and change .. but we're also limited, our vision shortened, etc.

empire10001: I didn't do it! {G} Just the way I see things. Yet we're also (deities and mortals) individuals, 'cause we simply cannot encompass the Ultimate.

SahtYinepu: Imagine a big cosmic sheet of glass...

SahtYinepu: it suddenly shatters.

SahtYinepu: There is no way to unite those peices ever again. You can break the shards into smaller fragments down to a tiny grain, but you cannot peice that back into one solid thing.

SahtYinepu: That's my Universe View.

Shadow: so how do we learn what the Gods desire of us?

SahtYinepu: We ask them.

empire10001: Ask. And hope They answer in a way we can understand.

Mari: oky back

Mariora: wb

SahtYinepu: For me it's almost an immediate instinct. If I think "He'd like it if I said hello..." chances are He's wanting me to say hello.

Shadow: maybe a better question .. how do we INTERPRET what the Gods want of us? and is there some kind of overarching desire that seems to follow across people and religions and groups, or not? Mari: Sometimes it's usually pretty forthright

eihdos: Do y'all use divination to figure out what your gods want?

Mari: general y'all?

Shadow: not usually, myself, although if I GET a response, I'll take it

SahtYinepu: I interpret through what I would want... I mean, it's going to have to come through the filter of my own mind, so... it sort of has to be my spin on it.

empire10001: Hmm ... I get that, too, Saht. But it's not the sort of "This is your purpose" thing I ask about, it's more ... hmm. "This feels like what He wants at the moment".

Shadow: I do *accidently scry* sometimes, for lack of better way of putting it

eihdos: General.

Mari: I do use Tarot for such sometimes

Mari: or a pendulum

SahtYinepu: You want to know abut "Life purpose"/"Great work" stuff?

empire10001: I'll occasionally use Tarot, yes.

Shadow: I don't like to RELY on divination, but I'll use it

empire10001: It would be nice!

Shadow: heh .. yes, life purpose/great work stuff. :)

Mari: I'll only use it when I can't figure somethign out in my own head or by writing it down.

Shadow: or don't the Gods actually seem to have that in mind for us?

SahtYinepu: Well, I think my purpose here is to learn a lesson. Not in any "punishment" kind of way, but...genuine learning.

empire10001: I feel like I should be doing something major, but can't because I don't know what it is!

Mari: it = diviniation

eihdos: I use tarot, kind of. I'll flip through the deck to see which cards speak to me, basically.

SahtYinepu: The particular lesson is "Remember, dumbarse."

Mari: I *know* I'm here for "whatever" - and even in a certain location for "whatever" - but whatever that is, I'm clueless

Shadow: *giggle*

Shadow: I suspect learning more about our Universe and ourselves IS a major *request/desire* from the Gods/Divine, personally

SahtYinepu: I once had a guide tell me I'm here for "The Arising"... not a clue what it meant.

empire10001: LOL! Now if I could just get over feeling guilty 'cause I'm not doing whatever it is I can't do 'cause I don't know what it is! {G}

Mari: The more we learn about ourselves, the more we learn about the universe, imho

Mari: Me too, Ann.

Shadow: I hear that a lot, Saht .. sometimes I suspect there's a lot of spirits out there that like talking about arisings, honestly! dunno what else it might mean! :)

Mari: Do you ever just want to sit back and scream, "What is it that I'm NOT doing?!"

Mari: I'm afraid I'll get struck by lightning

Shadow: want to?

Shadow: eh, I haven't been yet! ;)

Mari: lmao

empire10001: Oh, yeah? I thought I was the only one with that problem! Nice to know I'm not alone, though I feel sorry for anyone else stuck with that feeling.

SahtYinepu: I think some of the purpose of my being here is Past life stuff... (the remembering part)... because the instant I got into working with "The occult" it started opening up to me.

Star: Entered room.

empire10001: Hiya, Star!

eihdos: Hi!

Mari: hey star

SahtYinepu: Oddly enough, I only recall one bloody Egyptian life where I was a weaver. No priestessing, or Queenly-ness. Nahh, I wove and was a hired mourner. Yeah...

Shadow: STAR!


Mari: KIDS!

Mari: :runs:

Shadow: I don't actually *remember* any past-life stuff. there are fragments, but I'm never sure if it's one life, many lives, or just bits and pieces of the Universe and the unconcious ...

SahtYinepu: So, what do "They" want... dunno, I feel like I'm on the edge of something, looking over... it's important, it's big, but I cannot grasp the idea of it at this time.

Shadow: ACTION chases Mari down on a pogo stick with a croquet mallet

SahtYinepu: For me it was really clear, defined past life "Crap" lol.

Mari: hey :(

Mari: I was Jewish in my last life.

empire10001: Saht, that's how =I= feel!

SahtYinepu: It's a cranky feeling, ain't it?

Shadow: you mean I'm not missing out on great, wonderful knowledge here? ;)

Mari: LIke an "just on the verge" feeling

Mari: Standing with your toes on a cliff at the edge of falling off?

SahtYinepu: Shadow, just because it happened in the past doesn't make it glamorous...;)

empire10001: Yes! It's bloody well frustrating --EXACTLY!

SahtYinepu: Mari, exactly.

Shadow: I often suspect we know, at one level, but our minds can't truly comprehend what it is that we know

Star: ACTION plants herself next to Shadow in the "I don't remember past lives" corner

Mari: Makes me beat my head on the wall. Really does

Shadow: so it's kept slightly buried so we don't start talking to the walls

SahtYinepu: Well, I don't talk to the walls, but I do talk to the Orbs.

Mari: What's wrogn with talking to walls?

Shadow: do they talk back?

SahtYinepu: It's just that other people don't see the Orbs, and they happen to hang around in the walls...

empire10001: My dogs get upset. {G}

Shadow: *g*

eihdos: [finds corner for those who don't want to remember past lives]

SahtYinepu: Not very often... generally they just "look" at me like a confused animal and "swim" off.

Mari: Orbs?

Mariora: ::joins in that non remembering corner::

Mariora: Left room.

SahtYinepu: Orbs....

Mariora: Entered room.

Shadow: wow, too many people in the corner!

Shadow: wb

Mariora: and promptly gets booted out of chat

SahtYinepu: Uh, little wads of energy which one might compare to a bug or a small mammal.

Shadow: guess it got crowded. ;)

Mari: Okay. I"m with you

empire10001: My problem with "past lives" is that the ones I "remember" aren't this-world's past. So I don't trust 'em as more than fantasies.

SahtYinepu: Not alot of conciousness there, and generally not alot of intellegent behaviour. Some are just attracted to Magickal goings on like wee bugs to a spotlight.

SahtYinepu: Empire, that's just called being "Otherkin."

Shadow: I've got a couple of those, myself. one involved tentacles. it was weird

Mari: Tentacles ... I had an octopus as a guide once. Talk about weird!

SahtYinepu: *slowly steps away from Shadow... is very freaked out by the tentacles...*

Shadow: hey, and it wasn't YOUR dream/memory!

eihdos: My modem is choking. Bah. Night, everybody!

eihdos: Left room.

SahtYinepu: That whole "Vaguely resembling a lovecraftian elder god" thing wiggs me in a big way.

Shadow: more like octopus, less like Summer Fun Cthulu (who just happens to be sunning on the top of my monitor)

empire10001: I'm not "Otherkin", thanks ... I'm human, in those. Just not human in this-world circumstances, or in any reasonable life-position given my current status.

Mari: never run from an octopus

SahtYinepu: I had a dream once about something with tentacles trying to pull me into an inky abyss... (in a shopping mall no less). Only thing to ever give me the wiggs.

empire10001: EWWW!

Star: I want a Summer Fun Cthulu.

SahtYinepu: Shouldn't that be Sumer Fun Cthulhu?

Shadow: I had a dream about an octopus in a Western-style movie wearing a gunbelt and slinking up the sidewalk

SahtYinepu: okay, that's cute though...


Star: ACTION stores that statement away for the next time she feels depressingly normal when walking past Hot Topic

Mariora: ::rolls with mari::

Shadow: TMI!

Mari: do octopi have hips??

Mari: how was he holding up that gunbelt??

Shadow: well, this one did

Mari: ACTION is going to get slapped for this one, i know it :-(

Shadow: I wasn't going to ask, I was RUNNING!

SahtYinepu: That's not... inky bottomless abyss of suffering. Cold -dark- water that bubbles up through the concrete and makes it crumble away like dirt...

Shadow: ACTION gives Saht a happy flower

SahtYinepu: aww...

SahtYinepu: *sits in the "Horribly tortured Goth" corner...*

Shadow: ACTION fills the corner with brightly colored confettii

SahtYinepu: I like shiny things, don't get me wrong...

empire10001: ACTION drags Saht into a nice comfy silky Araneid nest

Shadow: anyway. What happens if the Gods want something we feel is morally wrong?

empire10001: I don't do it.

SahtYinepu: I'd decline, with respect , but firmly.

Mari: Depends

Shadow: has it come up?

Star: Topic. Right. Um.

SahtYinepu: If Sekhmet demanded I take on Her old mission and wipe out a section of the population, as I said in my post, it'd be time for her to kiss my plump backside.

Shadow: agreed.

Mari: Sure. I had some issues going on this time a cuple of years ago, asked the gods for advice - and boy did they ever have some. aye karumba

Star: It hasn't come up for me yet. I think I'd see if there were any chance of discussion or compromise. If no...

Shadow: ????

SahtYinepu: If She said... "Go hunt a Stag, slice it's throat onto the earth and rub yourself down with muddy , blood-soaked earth"... that I might do.

Mari: I had to pick and choose the best options *for me* that had the best outcomes - a weighing in of the odds vs the desireable outcomes ...

empire10001: I figure my Patrons both knew my ethics when I was chosen, and if my present one asks something He knows I won't feel right about, He'd better =expect= to be turned down.

SahtYinepu: If, you know, I could physically bring down a Stag. There's the assumption that They'd enable me to fulfill Their Tasks.

Star: If no then I think it would depend on the task. Some tasks might make me reevaluate why I feel it's immoral. Anything like wiping out a section of the population, though--go find yerself someone else, or do your dirty work yourself.

SahtYinepu: If it were "Kill this person"... I mean, I'd need a -valid- reason.

Star: Totally not getting myself thrown in jail for life or executed here.

SahtYinepu: Like, let's say...Sekhmet is PO'd over someone sexually abusing a child (HER child likely)... then, I'd be inclined to comply.

SahtYinepu: Actually... I'd probably do that without prompting... but thas just me.

Star: I wouldn't do it. I'd find another way to help the child.

Star: I'd alert the authorities, for starters.

Shadow: Left room.

Mari: I agree with Saht

Shadow: Entered room.

Mari: wb

Shadow: :)

SahtYinepu: I'm more commando about things like that. YES I would tell athourities... but... who's to say it wouldn't be in my own self defense?

SahtYinepu: Again, this is my way of weaseling around legalities...

Star: Self defense is a different situation

SahtYinepu: ... abusing a child , IMO, is a death sentance. Or should be.

empire10001: Actually, I've had to do some re-evaluating the last couple of days, on that codifying of laws for a fictional universe I mentioned earlier. Like, "would this work, and would it be right". Purely hypothetical, but still some serious mental exercise.

Shadow: I wouldn't do anything I wasn't willing to take the consequences for, at least

Star: If the command is "go out and commit premeditated murder before even trying to use the system"... No, I won't do that.

Mari: everything has consequences

SahtYinepu: I would... lol.

Star: If the command is "go help the kid, and if you get in a situation where you have to kill to protect yourself, go right ahead"... Different.

Shadow: well, and one of the things I've noticed from people who are "doing God's work" or whatnot is they think they're OUTSIDE the law

SahtYinepu: She wants me to get a Motorcycle... define the logic behind that. *shakes head*.

Star: I have this thing about murder--I don't think it's the answer.

SahtYinepu: Okay, lemme explain a little backstory on my stance on that. Children are the true innocents. Anything which harms a child is true evil, and should not be around to draw another breath.

Mari: Are you a parent, Saht?

SahtYinepu: Done with that soapbox... back to the divine order thing. Yes... certain things, even an ammoral a-hole like myself won't do.

SahtYinepu: No, Mari, I'm not.

Mari: I thought what you said was spoken like one. :D

SahtYinepu: Alot of people tell me that... heh.

Mari: If anybody ever did anything to either of my kids, I'd do more than gouge their eyes out LOL

Star: You're entitled to your opinion, Saht... Don't happen to agree, myself (especially with all the possibilities of accidentally harming a child), but that's what makes the world interesting I guess.

Shadow: well, there's also a big difference between deliberate harm and criminal neglect, and accidents

SahtYinepu: Accidents are just that. That consideration is implied there. I'm talking about people who do intentional harm to a child.

Shadow: accidents HAPPEN.

Mari: So - how do we know what they're really telling us to DO - and what's really wishful thinking on our parts?

Shadow: faith? ;)

Star: Back to topic.

Mari: :D

Star: Faith is my only answer to that one, too.

Shadow: also, there being a certain amount of consistency

SahtYinepu: Belief. Faith.

SahtYinepu: How do I know I'm not hallucinating the wants and desires of others? I don't.

Shadow: if my Patron tomorrow was to tell me that I should start dancing naked on Main Street, I'd assume there was something other than tea leaves in my tea

Mari: lmao

Star: Short of, you know, big physical manifestation with all the bells and whistles. But even that could be hallucination.

Shadow: that would scare me MORE than my normal contact!

Shadow: not to mention, according to myth I'd get burned alive from that, I believe

SahtYinepu: I've seen my Pappa's shadow against a wall once. That was pretty much all I needed.

Mari: You wouildn't want Bridget pacing in your kitchen?

Mari: :D

empire10001: If what we're told to do fits with the Deity's character and isn't something we'd do on our own, I think that would be an indication.

Shadow: Bridget pacing my kitchen would be weird, given I've had no contact with Her.

Mari: There's that

MaxRex2: Entered room.

Shadow: hello

SahtYinepu: Like, Sekhmet wanting me to get a motorcycle. WHY? I hate those things... they scare me. Yes, they're pretty machines, but... they go vroom and have no airbags.

Shadow: can always say no! :)

MaxRex2: Left room.

Mari: buh bye

Mariora: (even though im only lurking) be back in a few........have to pick up daughter

SahtYinepu: I think it has more to do with her wanting me to "Grow a pair" than anything else.

empire10001: Maybe she wants you to cut loose and be more carefree?

Mari: brb. i have problems in my forum

SahtYinepu: Most likely.

Shadow: kay!

SahtYinepu: It's odd that it would take that manifestation. That I'd hear her in the back of my head going "You'd make that your b*tch..."

Shadow: perhaps there's a desire from HER to ride a motorcycle, and She can only do that *through* someone?

SahtYinepu: Maybe so...

SahtYinepu: Actually, that makes alot of sense.

Shadow: seems weird to me .. I know *I* would say no to that!

Shadow: ACTION is very happily a scardycat

empire10001: Why not? Makes as much sense, in a different way, as Ganesha wanting me to "do" the Terran Empire Declaration of Rights.

SahtYinepu: I've asked her to help me be who I am "inside" rather than... expressing meekness, and all that jazz.

Star: ACTION is also a scardycat

SahtYinepu: Your Gods have you working on fiction too eh?

Shadow: actually, Ann, THAT makes sense to me

empire10001: LOL, Saht! I think you have the answer right there!

Shadow: once it's thought, it can be shared across the unconcious .. and perhaps enacted

Shadow: well, gee, Saht .. YOU asked! ;)

SahtYinepu: "We are all strands in a telepathic Web"?

empire10001: It does, Shadow? Hmm ... a lot of folks wouldn't like what I came up with.

Shadow: I wouldn't quite call it telepathic .. but I do think that there are connections

SahtYinepu: Rhiannon (near as I can tell) has me working on a RolePlaying game based on a world created for Her children.

Shadow: how else would, for example, identical scientific theories be discovered by people at the same time in vastly different places?

Shadow: that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be thought and processed, Ann .. liked or not, it's information that can be shared, and developed, etc.

SahtYinepu: I chock that up to the fact that the human mind has great difficulty coming up with original ideas...

MariBRB: Rhiannon? That's interesting

SahtYinepu: Yeah...

MariBRB: i'm still over here moderatin ..... in and out ....

empire10001: True, Shadow.

SahtYinepu: It's a world created "By her Oath that her children would not come into harm" the land, aptly enough is Rhianoth.

SahtYinepu: An afterworld , if you will...

SahtYinepu: I think, as Shadow said, sometimes They (and spirits) like to experience through the living/physical.

Shadow: what responsibilities do we have to the Gods, when they request things from us? Do they *deserve* devotion, or should They earn that, too?

Star: That's a tough one

SahtYinepu: I once had an Incubus suggest that I buy a shirt that he really liked...

MariBRB: lmoa

MariBRB: Devotion? define please.

SahtYinepu: It's a gift... sometimes it's given in thanks, sometimes "Just because"

empire10001: They have to earn it, IMO -- not necessarily on an individual basis, though.

Star: Because part of me says, "They're gods! Duh!" But part of me's like, "But I'm still not doing this, or this, or this."

Shadow: devotion .. attendance to what they say, following of their requests, giving respect and love, that kinda thing

SahtYinepu: I give what I do because they are.

SahtYinepu: Does that make sense?

Shadow: yeah .. just 'cause something's bigger than me, doesn't mean I HAVE to respect them! :)

Mari: k

empire10001: I have my standards. The deities I've been in touch with know and respect those, so I can respect them. There are other deities I'd never be able to work or be comfortable with.

Star: I think... I feel they're worthy of respect in one sense or another because they are more than we. If, sometimes, in no other sense than the same way a mouse respects a lion.

Star: But

SahtYinepu: Though (example time) Mannan (sp?) has not done anything for me, if he asked for something... I would probably give it.

Mariora: i am back

SahtYinepu: Empire, what deities?

Star: I refuse to follow blindly. So in that sense they gotta earn it.

Shadow: I believe all is part of the Divine, and worthy of love and respect FOR THAT.

Mari: Manannon

SahtYinepu: If Thor told me to do something... oh... YEAH, I'd be doing it.

Shadow: individual love and respect .. THAT has to be earned. :) obedience .. don't even exist. :)

Shadow: not blindly, at any rate

SahtYinepu: Manannon... yes. I knew there was another "an" in there.

Mari: I spell it wrong all the time, myself lol

empire10001: My first patron was Lugh, now it's Ganesha. I've been on friendly terms with Thor and Bast, a couple of others.

SahtYinepu: If... um... (this has happened) Raven TOLD me to do something, without any explaination... I'd do it.

Mari: I only knew it just off the top of my head because I've been editing Lore all Summer

SahtYinepu: some cases it's out of respect for what price I pay for -not- doing it, in other cases it's a gift given because , frankly... they deserve it.

TheAssMaster: Entered room.

Shadow: hello

TheAssMaster: hi!

SahtYinepu: They are bigger, wiser, stronger and infinitely more "graced" than anything rattling around down here. When They voice a desire... I'm betting it's important.

Shadow: dunno about THAT, Saht .. my Patron frequently has .. *minor* desires, as far as I can tell

SahtYinepu: But, you don't know how important it might be on the cosmic scheme.

Shadow: current topic: questions about what Gods want and why.

Shadow: true. though I HOPE I ain't that important on the cosmic scheme!

Shadow: actually, I'm still not doing something my Patron wants. we're having an ongoing *debate* about it

empire10001: Yes, but there are still some deities I'd be skeptical of ... simply because of their reputations. From those, I'd want =VERY= good reasons for following a desire.

SahtYinepu: Like which ones?

Shadow: just 'cause it's cosmic, doesn't make it a good idea? :)

Mari: Such as, Ann? just out of curiosity

empire10001: Loki, for one ... trickster deities make me want to put up the strongest shields I have.

empire10001: Or yell for help from Ganesha Ganapati! {G}

SahtYinepu: I like the -idea- of Loki.

TheAssMaster: Left room.

SahtYinepu: I've dealt with Raven enough to know "Trickster" generally means "Does things The Big Gods don't like"

Mari: ACTION laughs out loud.

Mari: (not at you Saht

SahtYinepu: "Steals shiney things for the little shaven apes" sort of thing.

empire10001: I like the =idea=, too, but I've heard too many of his "real life" ways to want any personal interaction with Him.

Mari: I never wanted any interaction with the Morrigan, either, but ...

Mari: some things you can not want a whole lot and just end up with

Shadow: I was a little weirded out by Hades, but I've gotten used to the idea

Shadow: it helps that He is .... considerably NOT like the crummier myths indicate

Mari: I ran from tM for *years* until I finally stopped, turned around and looked her in the face ....

SahtYinepu: I have a working relationship with "Theristes"... apparantly a reaping Angel... while the initial dealings gave me "The wiggs"... he's a nice guy.

empire10001: Yeah, I know! Like I never had any particular desire for personal interaction with a deity at all!

Shadow: one gets a choice?

SahtYinepu: Set gave me pause... but, I came to understand His place (the place of any adversary) in the system.

Star: I actually did crave personal interaction... Got it, to some degree, but not what I was expecting. Not complaining!

SahtYinepu: You know, Mari... from my limited knowledge about Her... She seems allright. Then again, I like the Goddesses who carry weapons. ;)

Mari: The reason I finally stopped and looked at the Morrigan was because several of my friends through several discussions told me that she wasn't the Big Baddie I had her made out to be in my head

empire10001: I've had some "in fiction" interaction with Azrael and an unnamed Death ... gives one a whole 'nother outlook, that can!

Mari: That and I was driving myself *crazy* by *not* paying attention to her. Much easier TO pay attention

Mari: and much saner

Mari: Yeah, Saht - she's alright :D

Shadow: I've a novel Hades and Persephone want me to write. They're WEEEEIRD

empire10001: Send it to me, please?

SahtYinepu: You mean they aren't?

Shadow: what, the book? haven't written past first chapter yet!

SahtYinepu: "The Dark ones" are always a little... you know... "touched" ;)

Shadow: actually, I find Them rather more compassionate than some. They've *seen* it ALL, after all

Star: So send her the first chapter! It's interesting!

empire10001: I'll gladly take it chapter at a time. And give you an editor's critique, if you want.

Mari: Then there were the people who kept saying that I was going insane from having any interaction with a Dark One at all ... pfffffffffft

Shadow: *giggle* lemme get THIS one done first! one at a time. (more or less)

SahtYinepu: Mari... nahh... you're just opened to new possibilites.

SahtYinepu: Possibilities that were selectively culled out of the herd during that whole "Inquisition" thing... ;)

Mari: Exactly Saht!! Exactly!

Shadow: huh?

Mari: I've learned bunches about myself and about LIFE that I'd never have learned otherwise

SahtYinepu: Free thinkers were killed by the dozens. Doesn't matter that they weren't Witches, the burning times still did dammage to the gene pool.

Mari: uh huh

SahtYinepu: *shuts up about that*... You have to come through the Dark Night to apriciate how pretty the morning is... (or something equally profound)

Mari: I think I've een trhough it and out the other side - and on to the next one LOL!

Shadow: there's always another one

Shadow: Do you think the Gods have an "end-game" purpose for humanity? a long-term plan?

Shadow: or do we make it up as we go along?

Mari: For humanity?

Mari: hhhmmm

SahtYinepu: I think there's a general idea, but the real end is up to us.

Star: Plan? For humanity? Hmmm.

SahtYinepu: And, on that "Dark side" thing, a terribly Goth friend of mine once said... "When you think you've been through every level of hell, you find out that Satan has to take a ***t somewhere..."

empire10001: Hmm ... judging from everything I've read on various religions' End Times, there is an end purpose/plan.


Mari: (not to you ann - to saht)

SahtYinepu: I dunno about an End Times... I think there's a purpose though.

empire10001: LOL -- I guessed, Mari! {G}

Mari: ;-)

SahtYinepu: The scope of any real "Armageddon" is so vast (and so far off) that you'd be hard pressed to glean even a little of it.

empire10001: From my reading, there is a common thread of a Deity returning (pick one), followed by a long time of peace and prosperity, sometimes under direct deity rule, sometimes under human. But it

empire10001: s quite consistent.

SahtYinepu: Yeah, I can see that...*nods*

Shadow: is that Divine inspiration, though, or human desire?

empire10001: Damfino! All I can say is that it's common through a lot of cultures and religions.

Koi: (oh look ... koi's here)

Star: Hi, Koi!

SahtYinepu: I think eventually the "Basic" goodness will win out. Though, if I get jumped by one more Vegan I might lose faith in basic goodness and long for a simpler, more Viking time.

Koi: i cleaned my desk!

empire10001: Armageddon is at hand! {G}

Koi: tell me about it

empire10001: I cleaned mine, too, so we are in REAL danger!

Shadow: Hi, Koi!

Mari: i cleaned out my inbox

Shadow: whoa. talking about Armageddon ....

Star: Ah, but I didn't clean my desk OR my inbox. The world is still safe.

SahtYinepu: My friend and I used to joke that Cthulhu was about to rise and destroy all of humanity over deep-sea oil drilling. It's more humorous in context, but... I actually believe we will "Wake the beast" with our plundering of the planet.

Shadow: i think goodness is a natural human instinct

Shadow: wait, you mean there's a desk under here? *looks through a few strata*

Mariora: desk?? what desk??

Shadow: I don't think we need Cthulhu to rise for that .. we've our own greed

SahtYinepu: We have diseases too... born of too much breeding.

Shadow: our greed against our innate sense of rightness .... sometimes I wonder if that's what it all comes down to

Mari: My husband's convinced that we'll do something to off ourselves, but the earth will keep on keepin' on

SahtYinepu: I mean, dang... I know it's fun (at least in theory) but......

Shadow: oh, I doubt we'll hose the PLANET! there will still be cockroaches, if nothing else ... ;)

SahtYinepu: Well, that's what separates us from the universe... our ability to be such morons.

SahtYinepu: Cockroaches and KISS.

Shadow: only humanity can be moronic, because only we have the potential to be better?

Star: OK, I gots to go now. It's been fun! Later

Star: !

Shadow: byes!

Star: Left room.

Mari: bye!

SahtYinepu: I think we're worse than animals actually.

SahtYinepu: I think Primates were The Ultimate Mistake... and I'm not kidding either.

empire10001: Why?

Mari: omg. i was sitting here thinking, and thought of myself sitting in front of my altar and heard myself saying, "So, what do you want me to do?" and I heard, "Noah, I want you to build an ark!" .... oy vey!

Shadow: I disagree, wholeheartedly. Only a creature that can know the difference between good and evil can choose EITHER one ....

Shadow: dude, change the God-channel! :)

SahtYinepu: Lions don't go out and snark an entire species of critter just because it -also- eats their prey.

Mari: i think i need a nap

Shadow: or maybe get out of the rain .....

Koi: dang, I missed star

Shadow: ah, but they would if they COULD, Saht

Shadow: lack of ability is very different from lack of desire

SahtYinepu: Then they'd be as bad as us...

Mari: how do we know they can't choose between good and evil?

Shadow: but we have the ability to realize what we're doing is wrong and try to change it

empire10001: We're as much a part of nature as my dogs or the local deer and rabbits.

Shadow: well, they don't behave as though they know. after all, they sleep, they eat, they have kids. could be wrong, but they don't APPEAR to choose!

SahtYinepu: We eat, sleep, have kids. Only, we have to invent entire systems based on how we can eat, sleep and have kids. We wipe out everything else so that we have more room to eat, sleep and have kids.

Shadow: we may have chosen badly, but we can also choose correctly. the point is that we CAN choose

SahtYinepu: We pour rock over vast areas of land so that other people can eat, sleep and have kids.

Shadow: we have given the Divine eyes to see and hearts to love with

Koi: (speaking of animals and evolving and whatnot ... is anyone else watching "the future is wild"?)

empire10001: We aren't perfect, no -- but then neither are the Gods.

SahtYinepu: But when we choose to go back out into nature, eat , sleep and have kids... that's "wrong"?

Shadow: what the hell do you mean by that?

SahtYinepu: That's the general consensus (generally).

Shadow: when did we leave nature?

Shadow: *looks around*

Shadow: I'm still on the planet

SahtYinepu: I guess it depends on one's view of natural.

empire10001: We have improved our own conditions, and in doing so, have improved the conditions of a lot of associated animals and plants.

SahtYinepu: Oh... bloody hell.

SahtYinepu: Empire, we've also lain waste to vast amounts of them, poisoned our bodies into new sicknesses, and spawned a few billion new diseases.

Shadow: thanks, Koi. no IDEA how to respond to that

Shadow: so we're not perfect. we TRY, what else can anyone do?

SahtYinepu: ... *shrugs*... I just dislike society in general... lol.

Shadow: gods, I'm falling asleep. have fun, y'all!

Shadow: g'night!

Koi: i think it's just general illiteracy. none of her other posts have been all that good

Koi: night shadow!

Mariora: nite

Mari: i've never seen her before

SahtYinepu: Nite.

Koi: she posted one or two others

Koi: not fully sensical

Mari: I don't like society either Saht

empire10001: Well, I'd take exception to the number of new diseases, and on the whole, I think we've improved things. But we certainly have made errors in the process.

Shadow: Left room.

SahtYinepu: Empire, I'm talking about those in animals as well as people.

Mari: air conditioning is a definite improvement

Mari: yup, sho nuff

Mari: ;-)

SahtYinepu: Ehh... I'll agree on that.

empire10001: I still think "billions" is a strong exaggeration; we simply don't have the power to do that much damage. And deliberately introduced diseases can't be more than a very few, certainly less than a hundred.

SahtYinepu: In the aquarium hobby, offhand, I can think of about 50 freshwater diseases, excluding plantlife. And in Saltwater, there's about that, excluding plantlife and corals.

SahtYinepu: including plantlife, corals, and invertibrates, I probably couldn't count.

Mari: personal home medical and drug books keep getting thicker

empire10001: Human-made or deliberately introduced?

SahtYinepu: Human made, and most are due to polutants.

Mari: brb. i need aleve ...

SahtYinepu: Fish TB is threatening to wipe out whole wild populations of fish (mostly marshland fish in Thailand) due to modern soaps getting into the waters.

empire10001: ? If due to pollutants, I'll concede they may be human-introduced, but deliberately, and in the range of a billion diseases?

SahtYinepu: My rant, of course, ties into what my Patrons have been poking into my skull...

SahtYinepu: In the aquatic world, in the order of thousands. I'm also taking into consideration the diseases which will probably come about in the next hundered or so years when nuclear waste starts piling up.

maribrb: actually, i'm going to go ahead and go on. i'll see everyone in the forum tomorrow! night!!!

maribrb: Left room.

SahtYinepu: I'm not telling people to live differently. I'm just saying I think of society, and of the Thinking Apes as having been the worst thing to happen to the planet since a big chunk of space debris offed the Saurians.

empire10001: Ah! But with respect to you and your Patrons, I still don't see that humanity is all bad.

SahtYinepu: They just have me cleaning up other people's messes. I don't think they have problems with humanity, per se.

empire10001: Then why did the deities allow primates to develop at all?

SahtYinepu: From what I gather, They didn't have much of a choice in it.

empire10001: Hmm, I seem to be running a line or two behind. Sorry.

SahtYinepu: The way it's been presented to me is that matter was independant of Energy.

SahtYinepu: then, when that pesky will to live popped up, the first souls got sucked in... (essentially, it's been presented to me as an accident).

SahtYinepu: And, personally, I think the human mission is to learn conflict... we seem awful fond of making it, so we must like exploring it.

SahtYinepu: On that note, I have to siphon down a marine tank and move it into the new place. Y'all have a good night.

empire10001: That sounds strange. Most people I know avoid conflict, at least as individuals (there are exceptions, of course!). Groups seem to be more inclined to conflict

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