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Home > Chat Logs > What Is Sin? (19 Aug 2003) Search

Chat Log:
What Is Sin?


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This is the log of The Cauldron's August 19, 2003 chat, which was a discussion of the nature of Sin in Pagan religions, and mechanisms for describing wrong actions. This log may have been edited to remove extraneous comments.

Geerte1: Hello

Star: Entered room.

Geerte1: Hi Star

Geerte1: ACTION yawns

Katnipp59: Hi ya'all!

Katnipp59: what are we talking about tonite?

Gwynyvyr: Entered room.

Gwynyvyr: Hello all

Geerte1: Hi Gwyn

Katnipp59: Hi Gwyn

Gwynyvyr: Just sneaking in while I am cooking dinner

Gwynyvyr: pork chops and tater tots

Gwynyvyr: ahhh, of my favorite subjects

Geerte1: I admit to having to check for that myself though. :-)

Star: Thanks, Geerte. I was about to go look. I should have remembered, but my brain's a little melty at the moment.

Geerte1: And that while I'm the one getting up at 2am for this! ;-)

eihdos: Entered room.

Star: Hey, it's been a long day. :)

Gwynyvyr: I am going to leave my computer on here and stay logged into chat, but I will be dashing around fixing dinner too

eihdos: Hi!

Geerte1: Hi Eihdos

Geerte1: staying up late as well? :-)

Katnipp59: hi

eihdos: Geerte, did you get home alright

eihdos: Staying up too late. :)

Geerte1: Yeah, all in one piece, and no traffic jams!

eihdos: Good to hear.

Starlyn1: Entered room.

Geerte1: I actually got up for this - wanted to make it here at least once. :-)

Geerte1: Hello

Starlyn1: Merry Meet all

Star: I wonder if Shadow's going to make it...

eihdos: It usually gets too crowded for me after a while. My modem can't cope...

eihdos: Star - is there still a power problem?

Geerte1: I was just going to ask if you knew that, Star

Star: eihdos, she was a little worried about being able to make it because for the past few days (since the outage) they've been asked to conserve power, which means not a lot of computer time.

eihdos: It's probably the most sensible thing to do, but I'll miss her if she doesn't show.

Star: And no, I don't know whether she'll be here... I'm assuming not at this point, since she's usually online by now if she's coming, IIRC.

Starlyn1: Left room.

Gwynyvyr: sooo, how do we start a discussion about sin?

Star: Well... I guess I could throw out a general question.

Katnipp59: k

Gwynyvyr: go for it

Star: Do y'all believe there is such a thing as sin?

Katnipp59: no

Gwynyvyr: yes

Star: (Though I have no idea whether this is now the chat was "supposed" to go, but what the hey.)

Katnipp59: I know the diference between right and wrong

Katnipp59: I don't need a list to tell me

eihdos: Sort of. Not in the Christian sense. Not doing "good" when it would be easy, or doing "evil" out of laziness.

Gwynyvyr: I think that sin can be defined as "a deliberate act to hurt an innocent" least thats what I think sin is

Star: Gwyn, can you expand on your answer a little too? What do you feel "sin" is?

Star: Does your definition match Katnipp's or eihdos', or do you think it's something else entirely?

Geerte1: So that means something can only be a sin if someone else is involved?

Gwynyvyr: Well, if you deliberately pollute (toxic waste dumps)

eihdos: Geerte - pretty much, yes.

Geerte1: Does this have to be a physical being, or could one sin against one's Gods as well?

Star: What makes toxic waste dumping a sin, though?

Geerte1: Or against other spirits?

Gwynyvyr: what about someone that deliberately sets a forest fire, for kicks, or for employment...

Star: Gwyn, but what makes those things sins and not just "bad" or "evil"?

Gwynyvyr: well, I guess the toxic waste has the potential to injure other people

Katnipp59: Those things are wrong but they would be that way no matter the culture

eihdos: Doesn't have to be a physical being. Though maybe the word *sin* isn't right.

Gwynyvyr: If they are done DELIBERATELY to injure I definitely feel they are 'sins'

Geerte1: Katnipp - would they?

Katnipp59: what about cannabalism?

Gwynyvyr: katnipp, depends on the culture and the circumstances

Geerte1: There are many cultures that set woods afire so they can then grow crops on the remaining field. Would that be a sin as well?

Katnipp59: That's right Gwyn

Gwynyvyr: Geerte, I was thinking more in line of recent events in the US

Gwynyvyr: afk

Katnipp59: So what is considered a sin in one is not in another

Katnipp59: I think there are universal wrongs

Star: I think I see where Gwyn's going with that... Intentional burn-clearing of a field would not have been done with intention to harm, rather the opposite actually, so it wouldn't be a sin... If I'm understanding her correctly.

Gwynyvyr: I think so too Katnipp

Geerte1: brb - need to get me a warmer sweater.

Star: Like what, Katnipp?

Gwynyvyr: yup Star

Katnipp59: murder shild abuse child molestation

Katnipp59: anything that would be adetriment to society as a whole

Gwynyvyr: I recently read a book called "Stiff" which is an investigation of what people do with human cadavers...I read some things in there that might have bearing on this discussion

eihdos: Kat - what if you murder a child molester?

Star: But how do you define murder and child abuse? And are you sure that something that would be a detriment to one society would be a detrement to another?

Katnipp59: I would also shoot a rabid dog

Star: (Child molestation I'm not really coming up with a good argument for, possibly because I don't really want to.)

Katnipp59: as far as I'm concerned there is no difference

Star: But if you kill a person, isn't it still murder, even if they're the equivalent of a rabid dog?

Gwynyvyr: Fla is the only state that can use the death penalty for child molesters

Star: (I think if you ask the law... it is.)

Katnipp59: According to the law it is but as far as my own consience no

Star: Why not?

Star: They're still a person, even if they've done a horrible thing, aren't they?

Katnipp59: Ive seen the outcome of the victums of child abuse

Gwynyvyr: I think, that by their own deliberate actions, some people have gone so far beyond the pale of human behavior for ANY culture that the death penalty as a collective punishement from the people is appropriate

Katnipp59: they are people too

Mariora: Entered room.

Geerte1: Hello Mariora

Mariora: howdy

eihdos: Hi.

Mariora: cant stay long..just thought I'd pop in and check on the sin convo

Star: If they are people too, how isn't it murder to kill them?

Geerte1: Katnipp - you won' change those effects anymore by killing the abuser though.

Mariora: *waves back*

Katnipp59: It would seep it from happening again

Katnipp59: keep

eihdos: By the way - if the child molester was molested him/herself, would that change your opinion?

Geerte1: So would putting them in jail for life

Star: It would keep *that* *person* from ever doing it again. It wouldn't keep child molestation from happening ever again. It doesn't solve the problem.

Katnipp59: They never stay there for life

Katnipp59: Yes it might

Geerte1: Or if we could think of an effective therapy, that might change it, too.

Star: It might? How?

Katnipp59: I am a provider for the mentally handicapped

Mariora: there is such a thing as "life without the possiblity of parole"

Star: How does one death keep this thing from ever happening again?

Geerte1: Katnipp - there are possibilities to keep them there for life.

Katnipp59: one of the people I work for who is MR

Katnipp59: grew up in a household where mlestation was the norm

Katnipp59: from his uncle father and mother

Gwynyvyr: Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy...there are excellent examples of people that elected by their own actions to be given a death sentence. And jail/prison is escape proof. Bundy killed 3 more women that we know of after his escape in Colorado

Star: Katnipp, I feel a great deal of sympathy for this person, and I'm sorry that it happens... But all of this is not answering the original question. Why is it less of a sin to kill a molester than to kill any other human being?

Star: Not why is it less wrong--why is it less of a sin?

Katnipp59: he has an obsession with young boys tho he has never done anything

Katnipp59: because it's a question of right or wrong to the society as a whole to me not sin

Star: OK... Are there other criminals you would kill, then? Or just child molesters?

Geerte1: And to what extent do we, as humans, need to punish people for sinning?

eihdos: I don't see punishment as being necessary. Just keep them from repeating their crimes.

Geerte1: If there's Sin, there must be some kind of inherent punishment to that, whether it be from the Gods or through karma or whatever - so should we intervene?

Gwynyvyr: eihos...hundreds of studies all point to one serial child molestor has ever been sucessfully rehabilitated

Katnipp59: I don't believe any one person should be the sole judge of that

Star: I'd amend that, personally, Geerte--to *do* we as humans need to punish people for sinning. The word has religious connotations to me, which means it's for the gods to deal with. We must deal with what we need to deal with to keep our society running and healthy--but punish for sin? I don't know that we can.

Star: Or should.

Gwynyvyr: Geerte, would you intervene if your child was being injured? Of course!

Geerte1: Exactly, Star

Mariora: punish for wrongdoings...let the gods handle the sin.....

eihdos: No, but I don't think we should sentence serial killers to death. I think we should study them, and try to catch other serial killers in an earlier stage.

Katnipp59: But if someone takes something away like life or ireparably harms an inocent they should face more than alife sentance in prison

Gwynyvyr: so what is the difference between a crime/wrong-doing and a sin? Is there a difference?

Star: Do two wrongs make a right, then?

Katnipp59: which by the way is usually no longer than 10 or so years

Star: A life for a life?

Geerte1: Gwyn - yes, I certainly would. And I' try and keep them from doing it again. But if it is to be considered a *sin*, then I don' know whether it' my place to *punish* them for it. That is up to my Gods

Star: ACTION nods in agreement with Geert

Star: ...e

Mariora: sin to me has religious connotations......

Katnipp59: yes mari me too

masterpally: Entered room.

masterpally: Left room.

Geerte1: Katnipp - around here, life is minimum of 20 years. In case of a severe crime, one will get life without parole, and never get out again.

masterpally: Entered room.

Mari: Entered room.

Gwynyvyr: lets get out of crime as a sin...what about your specific faith or path? Is blasphemy a sin? Disavowing your faith...what is a sin (religious-wise) in your faith?

Geerte1: Gwyn - Sin, to me, carries stronger religious connotations

Mari: forgot it was tuesday :-( :waves:

Geerte1: Hello Mari, Master Pally

masterpally: hello ladies and is everything tonight ?

Geerte1: and carries punishments on a religious level, but not necessarily on a mundane level

Mariora: hey Mari

Mari: :waves:

Geerte1: Gwyn - the Netjeru except a lot by way of worshipping other Gods

Gwynyvyr: If someone went into a temple/church/whatever of your faith and smashed altars or whatever...would that be a sin? Or would it only be a sin if someone who believed in that faith did it?

Geerte1: in the Kemetic pov, their sphere of influence is geographically limited, so that they would consider it normal to ask the local Gods for a favor if you'e abroad

Star: In my belief, sin is... I don't have an exact definition, or a good example. But it's something that is deeply wrong, and something that only the gods can deal with.

Gwynyvyr: oops...gotta get the tater tots out of the oven...BRB

Geerte1: However, one is expected to respect the Netjeru, and not doing so would be considered sin - or as close as the Kemetic religion gets to that

masterpally: in my faith we belive that any act short of moral perfection is sin.....kind of cut and dry

Geerte1: It' one of the things that come up in the Negative Confession, in which one is supposed to list all the bad things one did *not* do.

Geerte1: That' a very high demand to place on people, Pally

masterpally: but i guess if you realy looked at it it would apply to all faiths yes ?

Geerte1: I don' think so.

masterpally: i know its a high demand

Mari: Sin appy to all faiths?

Mari: or did I miss something?

Geerte1: I think that for most religions, there are different levels of wrongdoings

masterpally: thats why jesus died....cuse he knew we couldnt live to those standerds

Geerte1: And Mari has a point in saying that not all faiths include a concept of sin in the first place

masterpally: cant spell tonight lol

Katnipp59: I grew up in the Christan faith and it seems sin can be interpreted in so many different ways

Geerte1: Pally - Sin, to me, carries connotations of heavy punishment.

Gwynyvyr: what faiths do not have a concept of sin?

masterpally: your right, i missed a couple in my minds eye geerte

Mari: My faith doesn't have a concept of "sin".

Geerte1: Not honoring the sabbat once would be wrong - but would that be punished just as strongly as killing a man?

Mariora: i dont think mine has sin either....

eihdos: My faith doesn't. Some things are wrong, some things might be punished, but they're not sins, per se.

Mari: My faith teaches "amorality" basically

eihdos: Not honoring Hestia (by caring for your family and such) would be wrong, for instance.

masterpally: well the whole right and wrong is determined by your divine its your god that writes the laws of right and wrong.

Katnipp59: I had one person who said he was christian say that stealing apack of bubble gum and murder was equal in God's eyes

Geerte1: The closest thing to sin Kemetism know is Isfet - actions that support chaos over order, Ma'at

masterpally: what you do right by your gods standards id cool...what you did wrong by them would count as sin yes ?

Star: Mine's got a concept of sin, but a very fuzzy one. It's kind of one of those things... You'll know it if you're about to do it, and it's between you and the gods pretty much.

Gwynyvyr: afk for a bit, gotta eat

eihdos: Geerte - could you tell me more about Isfet, or point me to some web site or book?

Geerte1: However, it is more or less expected that one does that occasionally.

masterpally: in christians we belive if we commited one sin we have commited all sins......the ten commandments steal and you have lied stole lusted for and so forth

Mari: I've never heard that interpretation before

Geerte1: Eihdos - I' need some more time for websites, so I'll have to get back to you for that.

masterpally: its not an interpretation....right outta the bible

masterpally: lol

masterpally: i read alot

eihdos: Whenever you can find the time. :)

Geerte1: Isfet is essentially anything that undermines the existing order

Geerte1: that can be lies, stealing, not respecting the Netjeru...

eihdos: But what's order? Things like the sun rising every day?

Mari: Erm. I grew up Baptist and have studied the Bible in-depth. Still, that's a different way of looking at it, I suppose. Just never heard of it before.

masterpally: what if isfet is the exsisting order ?

Geerte1: Isfet is everywhere, and inherent in life

Geerte1: Isfet per definition isn', Pally

Geerte1: The order the Gods installed in Ma

masterpally: thats why christians get a better grasp on the book

Geerte1: ma'at

masterpally: oh

Geerte1: Truth, Justice

Katnipp59: But Pally this person also argued that it was the same punishment for both

eihdos: Who argued that is was the same punishment for what? I'm lost.

Geerte1: The sun rising every day is part of this order as well

eihdos: I think I get it. A little. :)

Katnipp59: a frien of mine who is Christian

masterpally: yup...for the wages of sin is death........he didnt pick out certain ones

eihdos: Ah.

Geerte1: Isfet is symbolized mainly by Apophis, the greaty snake who tries to eat the sun during its path through the Otherlands

Katnipp59: I am not trying to argue or disrespect your beliefs

masterpally: im kindda wrapped up in the tebetian book of the living and dying right now.....deep stuff in this book wow

masterpally: no offense taken my friend

Geerte1: It is killed every night by the Gods (so far!) but every actian that supports Isfet over Ma'at gives Apophis strength over the Netjeru

Mariora: brb......have to send an email

Katnipp59: but if I steal a piece of gum and someone else murders a room full of children we will both be punished the same way?

masterpally: yup

Mari: That doesn't seem right to me. Whatever happened to an eye for an eye?

Geerte1: Which means that as well as a punishable offence in the Hall of Two Truths, where one's heart gets weighed and one gets judged

Geerte1: it is simply very dangerous to live a life of Isfet

masterpally: see god has this moral perfection thing going...sin cannot exsist in his to have all his children with him he sent jesus to die

eihdos: Does the Kemetic faith have something like armageddon or ragnar.k?

masterpally: so in taking the gift of the sacrafice which is jesus we become sin free in gods eyes and can enter into heaven and skip the punishment for sin

Geerte1: They do have some concept of Ma'at ending some day - as even the Netjeru are not immortal in Kemetic thought

Mariora: back

Geerte1: I can't tell you much about that though - haven' gotten my hands on any texts about that yet.

Mari: WB

masterpally: geerte this sounds familiar of which your talking about .....i just cant figure out where iv heard of it

eihdos: I'll just have to pester my librarians again. ;)

Mariora: hmm....the cup on my desk is wobbling...all by itself

Geerte1: Eihdos - look for Assman, Hornung

Star: I know where I've heard about the weighing of the soul... Though it's not something I'd cite as a scholarly source. :)

masterpally: Left room.

Geerte1: George Hart

eihdos: Thanks!

Geerte1: It' a concept that comes up a lot when reading about Egypt

Gwynyvyr: is back

Geerte1: It' a very striking imagery

Star: It was used in a Sesame Street movie. :) Don't remember which one though. That's where I'd heard about it... Had no idea until just now that it was actually a real Kemetic concept.

Katnipp59: I've heard of it too not sure where

Geerte1: lol

Geerte1: It is. After death, one goes to the West or Duat and enters the Hall of Two Truths

eihdos: Geerte - have you read Ancient Evenings by Norman Mailer?

Gwynyvyr: I just read about a doctor that weighed dying people (I mean on the very edge of death) so that he could determine the weight of the soul

Geerte1: One has to read the negative confession, saying that one has not done Isfet, has not done x kinds of wrong, has respected the Gods, etc

Geerte1: Eihdos - no, I haven'.

Geerte1: After that, one' heart is weighed against Ma'at (the Goddess who personifies the concept) or her feather.

eihdos: Lots of Egyptian mythology in it, very good book. Don't know if it's accurate, though.

Geerte1: If one' heart is too heavy, one' soul gets eaten and destroyed

eihdos: Gwynvyr - 200 grams, right? ;)

Geerte1: If it is light enough, one can enter that Afterlife, where one can then live on more or less as on Earth

Gwynyvyr: uhmmm lemme grab the book

Geerte1: I think there might well have been some concept of reincarnation there as well

Geerte1: But it's not made explicit

Star: Huh. Whoda thunk that Sesame Street would have gotten Egyptian mythology right?...

Geerte1: Actually, I'm not even all that surprised

Geerte1: I wouldn't start quoting it as a source, but I can see where they would want to teach kids something on the side

eihdos: Mailer has one of the characters die while he's making love, at the moment of conception. His soul enters the womb of the woman and he is reborn. Very nifty. ;)

Star: Well, yeah, I'm not suggesting quoting it as a source either. I just thought it was cool that they more or less got it right. :)

Gwynyvyr: eihos...3/4 of an ounce it says here

eihdos: That's more like twenty grams than twohundred. Um... :)

eihdos: So, did he have people dying on scales?

Gwynyvyr: yes, he did

Katnipp59: was wonering about that :)

Gwynyvyr: Dr Duncan Macdougall of Haverhill, Mass in 1907

eihdos: Couldn't it have been air?

Gwynyvyr: published in the April 1907 issue of American Medicene

Gwynyvyr: He was very thourough...measured their sweat, etc

Gwynyvyr: get the book Stiff by Mary Roach...tells all sorts of nifty (and gross ) stories about what is done with cadavers

eihdos: Besides dog food?

Gwynyvyr: they use cadavers for crash test dummies

Mariora: whoa.that was weird.....

Gwynyvyr: and fertilizer

Mariora: the room was blank

Katnipp59: At UT hospital in Knoxville they have an area where they study how bodies decompose they are just laying around on the ground

Mari: dude!

Gwynyvyr: aborted fetuses are used as medicene in China...used to be sold to resteraunts until some reporters got wind of it

Mariora: the body farm....thats a neat place

Katnipp59: yep mariora

Gwynyvyr: Katnipp...the body farm in Tennesee is where I want my remains to go

eihdos: But that wouldn't give you much valid information about what happens to a living person, though.

eihdos: Sounds like a very entertaining book, anyway.

Gwynyvyr: eihos, the Body Farms main purpose is to aid law enforcement in estemating time of death, etc

Gwynyvyr: Its a great book

Gwynyvyr: has some really funny stuff in it too

eihdos: No, I meant the crash test dummies.

Katnipp59: I really don't care how my remains are disposed of if science can use them it's fine by me

Mariora: ok.....i cant keep up....gotta go

Geerte1: Bye

Katnipp59: bye

Mariora: Left room.

Star: Bye!

eihdos: Bye.

Mari: My dad says he wants to leave his body to science fiction. :D

Gwynyvyr: so, the soul weighs in at a whopping 3/4 of an ounce...according to Dr Macdougall...lets bring sin and souls together here...can someones soul be "black", is selling your soul a sin (even if you REALLY need the money)?

Mari: how on earth cna you weigh a soul??

eihdos: And more importantly, can you sell it on eBay?

Katnipp59: how can something like that be sold?

Katnipp59: ebay oh allright that might work

Geerte1: One can sell ANYTHING on ebay

Mari: LMAO

Geerte1: One can sell reincarnation on ebay

Gwynyvyr: Dr Macdougall devised specialized beds upon which dying patients were placed. The heart beats were listened to and approx 2 to 4 minutes after the heart stopped beating, the scale needle would jump back that 3/4 of an ounce

Katnipp59: consitantly?

Gwynyvyr: yup katnipp

Katnipp59: wow

Mari: reincarnation on ebay LOL

Mari: dude

eihdos: So selling your soul would be a great way to lose weight?

Mari: that's interesting

Gwynyvyr: some 18 yr old guy sold his virginity on ebay, got around 300 for it , I think

Katnipp59: hav'nt tried that yet lol

44224Grad: Entered room.

Gwynyvyr: and, of course, got laid

Katnipp59: the soul thing I mean *g*

eihdos: Anyway, anyhow, 2 to 4 minutes after the heart has stopped the lungs collapse and the air is expired - two to three litres, with condensation. Which you may well find accounts for the twenty grams.

Star: I'm looking around on eBay... I don't see a soul yet but that doesn't mean it's not there. :D

Gwynyvyr: I wonder if any modern day doctor has tried to duplicate Dr Macdougalls findings?

eihdos: Star - you can have mine for free!

Geerte1: eihdos - don' think those 3/4 ounces pay off

Gwynyvyr: eihdos, he took the expiration of air into account in his measurements

eihdos: And if you wait for 2 to 4 days, you may find that the scale has hopped back a couple of pounds. ;)

Gwynyvyr: and condensation

Star: Oh, I don't WANT it, I just want to see if anyone's trying to sell their souls. :)

eihdos: That's interesting.

Gwynyvyr: go to local library...get the book

eihdos: My local library doesn't carry a whole lot of books in English, but I might buy it.

Gwynyvyr: The soul stuff is in the chapter "How To Know When Your'e Dead"

Katnipp59: If you find one Star let me know I want to see the description

Mari: am going to run folks. i'm hving troulble keeping up! have a good one!!! WSSL!

Mari: Left room.

Gwynyvyr: sorry, make that How To Know IF Your'e Dead

Katnipp59: I think I'll be able to figure THAT out Lol

eihdos: "How to know if you're dead" - makes bathroom scales rather scary, all of a sudden...

Katnipp59: brb hubby on phone

Geerte1: Question: how does one get oneself to a scale if one' dead? :-)

Star: I don't think there's actually a soul available on eBay.

Geerte1: You can get reincarnation instead, Star. :-)

Star: True!

eihdos: If one is dead, that chapter might be superfluous. ;)

Gwynyvyr: The way I see it, being dead is not terribly far off from being on a cruise ship. The brain has shut down. Most of your time is spent lying on your back.The flesh begins to soften.Nothing much new happens, and nothing much is expected of you.

Gwynyvyr: Thats the first lines from the book, LOL

Geerte1: lol

eihdos: Geerte - you could sit on the scale and weight for death?

Gwynyvyr: I gotta go...hubby is whining...

Gwynyvyr: Left room.

Katnipp59: ooohhh eidos nooooo!

Geerte1: Eihdos - that' a teriible, TERRIBLE pun there....

eihdos: Sorry. Pun-ishment is in order. :)

Geerte1: I think you need to go to bed.

eihdos: Ouch!

Geerte1: ACTION hits Eihdos with a big dead fish

eihdos: So does my boyfriend.

Geerte1: Smart guy!

Geerte1: You might want to shower to get rid of that fishy smell first though...

eihdos: That a Dutch tradition? :)

Geerte1: Hitting people with fish?

44224Grad: that fishy smell came from her

Geerte1: No, that's just a sign I spent too much time in chat with Shadow

Star: Or her evil twin.

eihdos: That fishy smell came from who?

Star: ACTION runs away fast

Geerte1: ACTION chases Star with a salmon

eihdos: Fish fight!

Katnipp59: fish fish heads rolly poly fish heads

44224Grad: blind man said excuse me madam

Geerte1: And I spent too much time with Shad' evil twin or I *am* her evil twin?

eihdos: [threatens geerte with a pike]

Geerte1: ACTION hits the pike out of eihdos' hands

eihdos: [goes looking for a swordfish]

Geerte1: However, it's bedtime for me.

Star: No kidding... Must be nearly 4am there?

Geerte1: I need to be coherent tomorrow

Star: Sweet dreams!

Geerte1: 3.24 :-)

Katnipp59: nite Geerte

eihdos: Half past three. Night everybody!

Geerte1: Night!

Geerte1: Left room.

Star: Well, OK, so I can't seem to read *my* clock...

Katnipp59: nite eidos

eihdos: Left room.

44224Grad: Left room.

Katnipp59: I guess it's nite nite for me too

Katnipp59: Star

Star: Okies. Have a good night!

Katnipp59: nite

Katnipp59: Left room.

Star: Left room.

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