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Home > Chat Logs > Eclectic Paganism (16 Sep 2003) Search

Chat Log:
Eclectic Paganism


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This is the log of The Cauldron's September 16, 2003 chat, which was a discussion of Eclectic Pagan Paths: what it takes to create a path for oneself, what the challenges are, and what to look out for. This log may have been edited to remove extraneous comments.

Shadow: so, let's go around the room and answer what we think eclectic Paganism IS, 'kay?

ManxBalinese: I have no problems with Eclectic Paganism, as long as you STUDY the dieties and spirits you wanna work with.

Star: Eclectic Paganism... The term used to denote a "personalized" Pagan religion which borrows from many diverse sources. Does that work?

Shadow: I think Eclectic Paganism is, in part, an attempt to use answers from various sources to explain the world, as opposed to sticking with only one viewpoint

Star: That works too.

empire10001: My version of Eclectic Paganism is kind of influenced by the fact that I have a Patron, so what I beg/borrow/steal is rather affected by what He wants. But it's not limited to a single pantheon or set of practices.

empire10001: Er, what Star and Shadow said, with my caveat above.

Shadow: for instance, my version of Paganism, which I call Flame/FlameKeeping, draws on various religions for inspiration. Also, my own personal Patrons are Greek

ManxBalinese: Well, I'm a Eclectic, but not only do I take what I can from the 'standard' sources (but I do my research), but from the world I live in as well.

Shadow: But I'm not limiting myself to only Greek culture or Greek methods of worship .. to me, I'm in this world, and the adjustments that need to be made change everything anyway

Mari: ACTION sits on her Welsh Pagan stump_

empire10001: How could you do otherwise, Manx? So do I, and He thinks it's great ... you have to interact with the world you live in, after all!

Star: So, Shadow, do you consider FlameKeeping to be an eclectic religion, then?

ManxBalinese: Yeah, but the problem is, that some confuse 'eclectic' with 'fluffy', because of too many poorly-researched books.

Shadow: I do consider it eclectic, at least so far .. now, if other people follow and take up Flame after me, THEN I don't know if it would be eclectic anymore

Shadow: but while it's just me, I'm just an eclectic with a nifty new label. :D

Star: And Mari, as a non-Eclectic... Whaddya think of Eclectics in general (if you have a general opinion)?

Mari: sorry I was out of the room

Mari: Well, I don't like grab and mix as you go just because it looks good

Mari: Stuff's got to fit together and make some kind of logical sense

Mari: and IMHO - the stuff should be well studied before just sticking it in somewhere

ManxBalinese: That's what I try to do (save for more personal spirits that don't appear in any mythos).

Shadow: I agree .. I think when you've too many bits & pieces that don't fit together, you end up with a personal mess.

Shadow: then again, that happens with *organized* religions, too

empire10001: Yes -- Eclecticism should be an intelligent and well-thought-out mix, not just a grab-and-stuff-it-in of whatever seems attractive.

ManxBalinese: Hai

Mari: It's not like making ChexMix, imho

empire10001: LOL -- good analogy, and you're right!

Mari: ;-) Shadow: I think a lot of people like seeing things that *look good*, and then rip it out of context

Shadow: Karma is a good example. I see that thrown around, along with free will, in a way that just does NOT mesh

Mari: It's like .. I mean, I've yelled and screamed at people who've come by the Gwyddon website and pulled stuff off of it to use.

Mari: I mean, like, they dont' even KNOW what that stuff's used FOR or how or when, even

ManxBalinese: Yeah. What the hell happened to 'personal responsibility'?

Mari: That's a good way to get your ass fried, imho

Mari: What's funny Manx is that there's a small section on self-responsibility on the site. LMAO

Shadow: I think a lot of people don't actually think what they're doing is religion, actually

ManxBalinese: What, then?

Shadow: at least, the people that don't put it together well

Celeste621: What do they think it is then?

Shadow: they're looking for a framework for magic or an ethical system that says what they want to do anyway

empire10001: Hmm? What do they ... er, Celeste beat me to it.

Celeste621: lol

Star: ACTION ahems_

Shadow: when it's actually based on faith, things are more likely to fit together because there's something outside oneself one can use as a yardstick

Mari: ACTION sees Star's ahem and raises her a chocolate donut._

Shadow: ACTION steals the donut and turns to Star. "Yes?"_

Star: I don't consider what I'm doing religion. I only use the term because it's a convenient way to quickly convey "spiritual path" to other people. In fact, in a lot of my posts, you'll see me use "religious/spiritual path" instead of "religion"...

Star: But then I'm weird.

Mari: People get bent out of shape when I call the Gwyddoniad religion. But it is. I don't know why Pagans get up in arms about that ....

Shadow: sorry, that's not what I meant. I meant the people that have *messy* paths ... not people that have individual ones .. y'know?

Celeste621: Ok, I see that. I use terms like spirituality and personal path as well. Religion sounds more organized than what I have.

Star: what Celeste said.

Mari: Now when you word it like that, I can see a point

Shadow: I think religion and faith are two sides of a coin .. faith inward, and religion outward.

Mari: :D

Star: Everything I do, fits for me. Makes sense to me. But I haven't a clue whether it would look like "coherent religion" to anyone else.

Mari: I had a thred on this once, but I don't think we eve came to any kind of conclusion

empire10001: I call Omnism a "path" around people who know what "path" means ... otherwise, I simplify it to "religion".

empire10001: LOL, Star -- same here!

Shadow: ah, but do you have mutally inconsistant ideas?

Shadow: I HATE it when people claim everything is Karma, but people have free will. doesn't WORK!

Celeste621: Sometimes my path doesn't look coherent to me. >.< lol Just moments when it doesn't seem to make sense.

Star: Not that I know of... But then I wouldn't know, I think. :) Also, I don't have a lot of ideas anyway... I just... am. Do. Etcetera.

Celeste621: I never thought about that conflict, but that doesn't make a lot of sense, no.

empire10001: No ... I couldn't handle it myself if I did!

Mari: We don't ahve a concept of Karma

Shadow: see, that's when I think a person's religion/path/whatnot is messy .. when it's mutually inconsistant

ManxBalinese: What do you see as karma then?

Shadow: personally? bad logic. for other people, I don't know

Mari: we don't

Mari: You do something/anything/nothing, there's consequenses. Period.

Mari: It's your self-responsibility to see every action you to as completely through as possible to avoid any negative fall-out (if possible)

Mari: :shrug:

empire10001: True ... and it often shows up in this life.

Mari: Thanks Ann I forgot that part

Mari: We don't believe that it carries over from life to life in any degree at all

Shadow: I don't believe in direct reincarnation .. would make karma from life-to-life tricky!

Shadow: then again, I've never understood getting punished for something you don't remember as a lesson. how's THAT work?

Mari: that's it exactly. We don't directly reincarnate -- we're not the same soul over and over and over

ManxBalinese: I confine my karmic ruminations to speculations on what my dog was in a past life.

Mari: I wanna be a fat spoiled housecat brat in my next life.

Mari: ACTION eyeballs Grey Lady._

empire10001: I haven't quite decided that part, myself ... it doesn't seem right that it should, but if there's any sort of continuity, there has to be some sort of carry-through. Call me confused/indecisive on this one!

Shadow: currently, I believe we loose our individuality and are ONLY part of the Divine soul-mass .. and then a new soul is spun out of that mass and born

ManxBalinese: Scary thought.

Mari: Well, the way we see it is that when the body dies, the soul goes into The Abyss and is purged and is then reabsorbed back into the Boundlessness.

Shadow: so we continue .. but not as (Shadow-baby) or other individuals

Shadow: which is scary, Manx?

Shadow: but as many thousand people, each with little threads of this person and that

Mari: When we're reborn, we're very much a part of the great big whole

ManxBalinese: The loss of self after death

Shadow: why is that scary?

Shadow: personally, I find it liberating .. when death comes, I will not end or be forgotten .. but I also won't be responsible anymore. ;)

ManxBalinese: *sigh* I guess it's because I like to stay 'me'.

Shadow: I'd rather be bits and pieces of a thousand people than most other options, at least

Shadow: heh .. I can understand that.

Star: ACTION sits on the fence_

empire10001: If it's all like a bubble on the surf, and everything gets hauled back to the totality of the ocean, what's the point in striving?

Mari: ACTION scoots over and makes room on her stump_

Mari: Totally

Shadow: because the entire mass does change.

Shadow: the Divine strives and changes through us

Captain_Koi_-_Arrr_: *JOIN* Entered room.

Shadow: or as us, the language gets weird about here again. :D

Shadow: KOI!

Mari: Koi!

ManxBalinese: Ahoy

Koi: hey

Koi: !

empire10001: Heya, Koi!

Koi: ACTION has a pounding headache_

Koi: so be nice to me

Shadow: yes ma'am. we'll start being nice now. :D

empire10001: {{{{{Koi!}}}}} Be safe, my friend!

Koi: you too, ann :D

Koi: how's your area looking?

Shadow: I don't exactly believe in individuality, I guess is the thing .. we are individual, but at the same time, we're not.

Koi: mine's going to have higher winds and more rain than expected ... but should be OK

Mari: Didn't I adress this in that "Sameness" article, Shadow?

empire10001: Pretty good, actually -- probably high winds and rain, but by the time it gets this far inland, not too terrible.

Shadow: um .. did I READ that article, Mari?

Celeste621: I've heard that storm system shrank quite a bit, is that true?

Shadow: oh, wait, I think I did. *tries to find memory*

Mari: I thought I sent you a copy?

Mari: "The Fallacy of Sameness"

Mari: or something like that

empire10001: It got disorganized, and last I heard, was down to Cat 2 -- still strong, but nowhere near as bad as Cat 5!

Koi: i read 20-foot storm surges in DC

Mari: Cat 5 bad!!

Shadow: yeah, I think you did. :)

Koi: disastrous, that

Mari: Me too - but I'm too lazy to reach over for my Book LOL

empire10001: Being 20 miles inland is GOOD!

Celeste621: Thank goodness.

Mari: amen

Koi: btw, I have decided what I need in life to acheive happiness

Koi: I need a shirt that says "It's all Greek to me." In Hebrew.

Star: What's that?

ManxBalinese: lol

empire10001: LOL!

Mari: LMAO

Shadow: ACK!

Shadow: how about like a rosetta stone? get it in cuneiform, too. :D

empire10001: Koi, have I told you lately that you have a warped mind? I LIKE that in a person!

Koi: lol

Koi: then I could wear it around the div school and drive people crazy

Celeste621: lol

Mari: Found it shadow ....

Star: I like the way your mind works, Koi. :)

Mari: "Energy is the "consciousness" of the Universal Mind. For the concepts of Expectation and Desire to exist, one must be "conscious" or UNIQUE"

Mari: ergo, it's our individual uniqueness - or ego - which makes us cling to our prior conditioning --- which brings me back around to Manx's fear of losing his self-identity

Shadow: yeah, that! *calmly theives from Mari, then runs*

Mari: heh

ManxBalinese: So, ego is bad?

empire10001: Manx isn't the only one -- I have no desire whatsoever to merge with everything else and lose myself!

Shadow: it isn't bad, because it is what we are

Shadow: we ARE individual .. but we also are part of a greater Being at the same time

Shadow: BOTH are reality, not one or the other

Sperran: *JOIN* Entered room.

Mari: Ego is bad only when you get so self-important that nobody can stand being around you ;-)

Sperran: *hi*

empire10001: And how do you maintain individuality if you merge into something so much huger?

Mari: or that it blocks you from experiencing deity

empire10001: Hi, Sperran!

Mari: actually, go with answer two

Mari: and what shadow said

Shadow: hey, Sperran!

Sperran: I can only be here for about 4 minutes, so don't be surprised if I disappear soon.

Shadow: 'kay!

Mari: Because that much bigger thing is also a PART of you

Mari: and you're a part of it

Mari: - at least in my tradition

Sperran: Hi everyone, please continue your discussion. :)

Koi: hey sperran!

Shadow: see, that's the thing, Ann .. both are important. we are NOT supposed to give up our individuality .. because that's what we ARE.

Shadow: it's a paradox. :D

Mari: ACTION cues up creepy muzak_

ManxBalinese: @.@

Mari: lmao

Celeste621: Hey, Sperran. :)

Sperran: Quick bad joke before I leave; isn't a paradox what you need if you have two boats? :)

Shadow: the fact that we won't be the same individual later doesn't make our current individuality irrelevant .. we can only grow as individuals

Shadow: ACTION chases Sperran out of the room while trying to beat her with fish_

Celeste621: lol I'll save that for philosophy class

empire10001: Sperran, you have been talking to Ron!

Sanacrow: *JOIN* Entered room.

Shadow: hey!

Celeste621: Hey, Sana.

Mari: {{SANA}}

Sperran: Ann, Nope, I'm just that silly. Bye everyone!

Sanacrow: HiYa! I finally got this thing to work!

Celeste621: See ya

Sperran: *PART* Left room.

Star: ...waves... whichever...

Shadow: I mean, I don't want to give up MY individuality, either. I like being me.

Mari: I like what my first teacher said

Shadow: but that doesn't mean I want to be this *me* forever, either. Sooner or later, I'd get bored. supposedly. ;)

Mari: We're all equally worthless

empire10001: Shadow, that's too deep for me ... either I am this individual, or I cease to exist =as= an individual.

Mari: or you elevate and become a demi-god

Mari: ACTION runs_

Shadow: of course you're an individual.

Shadow: ACTION smacks Mari lovingly_

Mari: :smooches:

Shadow: we all are .. but it's like saying "we're all human" .. we don't deny membership in THAT group, nor does it cost us our individuality

Mari: ;0)

Shadow: we are all part of the Divine, that looks through our eyes and grows through us. we're also ourselves, in all our quirky glory

Mari: I recognize that I'm part of the One, All Things - the Boundless - but I'm still here.

Sanacrow: *PART* Left room.

ManxBalinese: Okay. Now, what are we talking about again? ;>

Shadow: heh. we got sidetracked onto the Divine/Boundless, didn't we?

empire10001: True, but as a human, I see myself as Ann, no one else. I'm also part of the Creator. But if "Ann" as a unity doesn't remain, somehow, anything I've done or not done is totally pointless from Ann's POV.

Mari: Sorry. I do that a lot.

Shadow: ahhhh .. I'm not saying that the Ann-person doesn't exist empire10001: I think we were talking about Eclectic Paganism, says this Omnist. {G}

Shadow: and the Ann-person is different from the Shadow-person, too

Mari: It's not pointless to the greater whole

Shadow: (thank Gods!)

Shadow: but between lives, the rules are ... hmm. Different? at least IMO

ManxBalinese: To get back on track, there are too many poorly-researched books, especially in the Pagan/New Age department. It's as if they can't tell personal gnosis from historical fact.

Shadow: then again, how would I know? I'm not dead yet! :D

Mari: My husband and I are having a running discussion via e-mail about PG -vs- fact, in fact

Shadow: I don't think a lot of people CARE about historical fact, actually

Mari: nothing wrong with either, but please differentiate - especially if you're publishing, imho.

ManxBalinese: Like I said, that's why folk confuse 'eclectic' with 'fluffy'

Shadow: and in a lot of things, it doesn't matter ..... until you confuse other people

empire10001: Dear gods, Manx, are you ever right! Historical fact is fine, as is UPG, but for the gods' sake, keep 'em separate!

Shadow: mmm. that, and a lot of fluffy people call themselves eclectic

Mari: yup

ManxBalinese: Conway is REALLY bad when it comes to that.

Mari: Llewellyn

Shadow: so I've heard. I've given up on *Pagan books*

Mari: not Conway. Llewellyn chewed her books all to pieces and back - published what they wanted in them, not what she wrote for them

gracecham: *JOIN* Entered room.

gracecham: hello everybody

Shadow: hello

ManxBalinese: Yo

Mari: Hey there!

HOYDEN2: *JOIN* Entered room.

gracecham: hi hoyden

Shadow: HOYDEN!!!!!

Hoyden: hello

Hoyden: :)

Hoyden: howdy

Koi: hey hoyden :D

Hoyden: hey :)

empire10001: I need to go, folks -- have fun!

Shadow: stay safe!

Shadow: byes!

ManxBalinese: I'm talking about DJ Conway.

Mari: wssl ann!

gracecham: bye

Koi: bye ann

Star: Laters, Ann!

Mari: I know manx

Shadow: look out for the Divine taking over! :D

empire10001: *PART* Left room.

gracecham: what do you know about DJ Conway?

Hoyden: so what's up with eclectic paganism? anything in particular?

ManxBalinese: Well, I brought up poor research as a problem.

Star: I know I started to read one book by her and never finished it... Just about threw it across the room, actually

ManxBalinese: Which one?

Star: Lord of Light and Shadow

Star: I was looking to get more in touch with male deity, and someone (I wish I could remember who) recommended it

Mari: And I stated that it wasn't HER poor research. 90% of what Llewellyn published was THEIR research. Not what she'd written.

ManxBalinese: How bad was it?

Shadow: well, there was a sidetrack onto the nature of humanity and the Divine, and now we're back on research. :D

Koi: (watching John Edwards on the Daily Show last night ... he's a RIOT!)

gracecham: so you think her books are inaccurate?

Star: But there were sooooooooo many veiled insults leveled at patriarchial religions (implication--Christianity) that I just couldn't take it... I only got a few chapters in before I gave it up.

Star: Maybe it got better later, I don't know... I was really pretty disgusted with what I did read, though.

ManxBalinese: Mari, do you know DJ?

Koi: *PART* Left room.

ManxBalinese: Star, I see your point.

Mari: I've swapped e-mails with her here and there, and one of my friends does some work for her.

Captain_Koi_-_Arrr_: *JOIN* Entered room.

Shadow: ACTION tapes Koi to the wall_

gracecham: wb Koi

Koi: hey

Koi: dunno what that was

ManxBalinese: ACTION has been stuck with 'Dancing with Dragons' and that mythic creature guide._

gracecham: stuck/

gracecham: is that bad?

ManxBalinese: Not really

gracecham: Do you think her books are a waste of time?

Star: I did find a note, when cleaning out my papers, that said "DJ Conway - Celtic Magic" on it. Not in my handwriting. I have not one single clue who I would have gotten such a note from or why I would have kept it. It was weird.

Shadow: I think one of the problems is we're looking in books for answers to things that can't really be written about

ManxBalinese: Yeah, but good books do help.

Shadow: true .. but that's all they do, is help. they don't have mystic answers to all the world's questions in there.

Mari: just don't buy the stuff published by Llewellyn

Shadow: and I do think we do ourselves a disservice when we look for things from books they don't have

Star: Probably. The problem is that it's so EASY to do that!

ManxBalinese: Ever heard of New Falcon Publications?

Mari: But you can't learn everything there is to learn about something from printed media

Shadow: well, yes. but that doesn't help with the fact that reading a book will NEVER make one a *good member of a religion*

Shadow: no, I haven't, Manx

Koi: i was actually struck by that this afternoon, shadow

Koi: I was doing research for my sermon that's due ... mondayish

Koi: and all the books were full of quite fascinating facts about the texts

Koi: but ...

Koi: nothing useful in the way of application

Mari: there are no gwyddon books

Mari: buwahahahahaha

Shadow: yeah. same thing, really

Shadow: reading doesn't really get you the same thing talking or doing does

Shadow: I think that's one of the biggest problems Pagans have, actually .. is going from book to faith.

gracecham: I agree, Shadow

ManxBalinese: Yeah, I still have some problems there. I really should work on meditation.

Celeste621: I have problems going from study to practice.

Mari: that's one of the reason i'm glad we don't have to deal with the "popular press" crowd

ManxBalinese: Like the SRW groupies?

Mari: We're not Wiccan, but yeah, that's kinda my point.

Shadow: I think it's part of why I decided I wasn't going to seek publication at this time. one more book on *this is what we do* wouldn't help, even if it was a different *what we do*

gracecham: goodnite all, take care

Shadow: religion/faith is about how one LIVES, not just what one believes.

Shadow: g'night!

gracecham: *PART* Left room.

Mari: night grace

ManxBalinese: It helps to know what you believe in, so that you know how to live though.

Hoyden: problem is that normally, religion is learned through a community, but the pagan community is scattered so religion is, instead, transmited through literature

Mari: But you can't get that from a printed BOOK

Shadow: well, yes. one can't live a faith if one doesn't know what it is! but then again, I can't learn how to live from someone else's book, either.

Shadow: ESPECIALLY not a book that talks about circles and spells, but not how to relate to the Gods, or whatnot

Hoyden: I think it depends on what kind of religion you're looking for

Shadow: I don't know about y'all, but I am SICK of books that treat the Gods and ethics like a side-point to the religion!

ManxBalinese: I bloody know it. And there are those that are 'steath Wicca'.

Mari: I'm sick of people who think you can get everything there is to know from books. LOL

Celeste621: I've noticed that, out of a book that's fifteen chapters on a religion, only two or maybe three are for the gods.

Star: The gods would seem to be an important part of religion...

Hoyden: ACTION is playing devil's advocate_

Shadow: which makes me VERY unhappy. if it's a religion, God(s) should be central. if it's a Godless religion (like Buddism) the faith aspects should STILL be central!

Hoyden: but everyone is dealing with different deities, how can a book on a religious style cover them all without sounding like a laundry list of gods and goddesses

Mari: that's when you get down into the nitty gritty and actually COMMUNE with your deities and not rely on printed material

Shadow: don't cover the specific Gods .. cover relations to the Gods

Hoyden: ah, I see what you're getting at

Shadow: don't talk about different aspects of the moon, talk about how the moon is a spiritual whatnot.

Celeste621: Couldn't chapters focus on different ways that people work with the gods? I don't see much of that.

Hoyden: or the etiquette of dealing with deities

Shadow: THAT is my beef. it's like the Gods are spell components, not big critters with personal goals, etc.

Mari: there you go shadow, thnk you

Shadow: :D

Mari: brb. i forgot the cat's dinner.

ManxBalinese: Too many people come here from Christianity, which teaches that a book is all you need to be spiritual. There's a problem there.

Koi: no, in christianity a book is NOT all you need to be spiritual

ManxBalinese: Well, that's a popular myth by the masses.

Celeste621: I think that's the impression some people come away with though.

Shadow: That's bad Christianity, though.

Shadow: there's a big difference between a Holy Book and a book making one holy

Koi: if that was all they needed, they wouldn't go to church, receive communion, pray, or much of anything else

ManxBalinese: We know that, but people as a whole are idiots.

Koi: one assumes the ones going to church know it too or they wouldn't be bothering going to church

Shadow: I think our culture also encourages the idea that religion should be easy, and not be a huge time/moral/emotional commitment

Shadow: so we WANT to believe all it takes is a book .. even if we know better

Koi: *PART* Left room.

Shadow: we want to believe in answers

Hoyden: Koi said to say good night, she has a headache

Celeste621: Aw. :(

Mari: i'[m back but i'm scrolling up to read

ManxBalinese: Are we, as a whole, a bit afraid of religion nowadays?

Shadow: but in any event, I think humans like to believe in *easy answers* .. so we keep looking for an easy answer we can READ, instead of the hard one that involves lots of work on our end

Shadow: I think we always have been. religion is scary. it's a place where we are totally out of control, and the Divine/God/whatnot is IN control.

Celeste621: I think it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Shadow: only now, we think we have options .. which makes things even more complicated

Mari: I agree Shadow - some people want InstaReligion

ManxBalinese: Makes me wonder about the InstaWitches

Shadow: and some people want to control the Divine

ManxBalinese: Sadly true

Shadow: it's very scary to realize that we CAN'T.

Mari: I was just reading about that in our lesser lore LOL

Shadow: okay, Mari, OUT of my head!

Mari: WOOF

Mari: But anyway. What I was reading basically sid that people try to control deity in order to satisfy their own ego

ManxBalinese: A lot of Neo-Wicca also came from the rather egotistical High Magic of the Middle Ages, where it was taught that spirits are little more than potential servants.

Mari: which makes sense

Shadow: too bad it never works. ;)

Hoyden: there seems to be 2 different pulls...the High Magic "control the spirits" and a tradition of religious practice in which the human has very little control if any

Shadow: I think it's a standard human desire, to control. part of why faith is scary is because it's placing oneself OUT of control, admitting that lack of control

ManxBalinese: I guess the worst kind of Eclectic is one that thinks that Gods are nothing more than extensions of the self.

Star: OK, guys, Hubby's home. I gotta go. Laters!

Shadow: byes, Star!

Hoyden: see ya Star

Star: *PART* Left room.

Mari: Beg your pardon?

ManxBalinese: Sorry, poor choice of words.

Shadow: do you mean the ones that think Gods are SERVANTS?

ManxBalinese: Yeah

Mari: Huge difference there

ManxBalinese: Really?

Mari: yes

Shadow: some people really do think the Gods are methods of looking at the world and not separate at all. and they're not fluffy

Mari: I'm a part of the all, but the gods aren't my servants, and neither are you

ManxBalinese: I remember now.

Shadow: and, when you come right down to it, yes, I believe in just one overarching Self, too, although I don't think that's what Manx meant

Mari: I"m so lost :-/

Shadow: you're under your bed. :D

ManxBalinese: I'm talking about Gods-are-part-of-my-ego-so-let's-put-two-incompatable-dieties-together. That concept.

Shadow: oh, THAT one. that annoys me, yes, but that's different

Shadow: people like that simply don't really believe in the Gods .... if they did, they wouldn't do that

Mari: oh that's so not what i'm talking about LMAO

Mari: I agree

Mari: Thanks for finding me

Celeste621: They don't believe in the gods in the sense that they're actual entities?

Shadow: sure thing, dahling

Shadow: well, I'd say more like, they don't believe in ANYTHING but themselves and their ego. they might pay lip service to other things .. but it doesn't matter WHAT, because they're worshipping themselves

Celeste621: Ah ok.

ManxBalinese: At least LaVeyans are honest about it.

Mari: IMHO, these people have NEVER have had any kind of direct contact/communion with the gods, and if they ever did, it'd scare the crap out of them

Shadow: heck, it scares the crap out of me sometimes still, and I *chat* with a couple regularly!

Celeste621: That makes sense. If they feel like they're in control of the situation, it probably isn't what they think it is.

Shadow: I'm very worried of anyone that's *in control* when dealing with the Divine. because .. um .. it don't work that way

Shadow: nor should it

Mari: nope

Celeste621: Agreed.

ManxBalinese: I'm still prepping.

Shadow: for contact?

Mari: How do you know you've not been contacted already and just don't know it?

Shadow: honestly, I wouldn't bother .. no amount of prep really helps, when you get down to it. :)

Mari: or didn't recognize it.

Mari: I hear that

ManxBalinese: Yeah, but it's more likely to happen in dreams for me right now.

Shadow: as in *Divine SMACK!* oof.

ManxBalinese: Heh

Mari: Nothing worse than a worried god pacing in your kitchen, that's for sure.

Shadow: oh yes there is

Celeste621: I haven't had any overwhelming, whap over the head experiences with Astarte yet. I take it that's a good thing though, lol.

Mari: :gasp!:

Shadow: how about Hades deciding it's time for you to write a novel, and trying to explain it to you. While you're otherwise awake and NOT expecting it

Mari: Well ueah, there's that

Shadow: I about fell over. I could NOT take that one!

Shadow: don't worry, I'm sure you'll get smacked too. :D

Mari: HOOTCHA ;-)

Celeste621: lol I'm waiting.

Hoyden: I haven't been smacked, just whispered at ( I need to learn to listen better :) )

ManxBalinese: Hai

Celeste621: I've gotten lots of whispers too.

Celeste621: I think I need a spiritual hearing aid

Shadow: I get those. I've learned to listen


Shadow: no, trust me, whispers GOOD

Shadow: there really isn't a middle setting!

Celeste621: lol

Shadow: what's bad is when you're so frustrated, you seek spiritual insight through FreeCell

Hoyden: yeah, but I miss things which isn't good

Shadow: of course, I'm insane. :D

Shadow: read my forum, Hoyden .. I've got all the answers you NEED! :D

ManxBalinese: Freecell? :)

Shadow: ACTION runs_

Shadow: card game

Mari: Bejeweled

Celeste621: I never played freecell

Celeste621: I find solitare more calming than meditation though

Hoyden: hey! Isn't that the things you were just complaining about??? Hmmmm, missy???

Hoyden: :)

Celeste621: heh

Shadow: what? hwo?

Hoyden: getting answers from reading

Hoyden: hehe

Shadow: heh. part of that IS what one reads, of course

Sperran: *JOIN* Entered room.

Shadow: but yes. one needs to DO, as well

Hoyden: hello

Shadow: which is something I need to write about.... :D

Shadow: hey! wb

Hoyden: lol

Sperran: hi

Sperran: Did the discussion go well tonight?

Hoyden: I need to start reading tarot again

Shadow: actually, we're technically still in it, even!

Sperran: Awesome. :)

Shadow: though I should be heading bedwards .. have work tomorrow

ManxBalinese: Night then

Sperran: I'm only here for a few seconds myself; I'm at work and I need to get home. (late interview)

Mari: I should go soon, myself. Preston will be home from work in a couple of hours

ManxBalinese: Am I the only one on Pacific?

Hoyden: hmmm...well, g'night to all who are heading out

Shadow: heh .. looks that way, I guess!

Sperran: I think so, I'm on Central...which puts me earlier than most.

Shadow: everyone, you're welcome to keep chatting, but I'm going to run away and sleep. is late.

Shadow: byes! thanks for coming! :)

Hoyden: night!

Shadow: *PART* Left room.

Sperran: I have to go also. I'm glad you had a good chat. :)

Mari: well, i'm heading out too. nite everyone

Mari: *PART* Left room.

Sperran: *PART* Left room.

Celeste621: Same here, take care everyone.

Celeste621: *PART* Left room.

Hoyden: night

Hoyden: goodness

ManxBalinese: Mmmm

Hoyden: I'm not quite used to chatrooms emptying so quickly

ManxBalinese: Me neither. I usually go after that.

Hoyden: I'm not a regular at TC, I'm usually over at TT

ManxBalinese: I'm more for the messageboards than chat anyways, unless I'm on Furcadia.

Hoyden: I'm a chat mod at TT, but I usually am on the message boards

Hoyden: I'm not used to not seeing a hammer next to my name, lol

ManxBalinese: Heh

Hoyden: are you pagan?

ManxBalinese: I guess you can say that, but I'm more of a magic-worker right now. I'm trying to remember the sabbats though.

Hoyden: gotcha

ManxBalinese: So, what do you do spirit-wise?

Hoyden: lol, not sure?

Hoyden: no, seriously, I'm a witch

Hoyden: general pagan, not really easily fit into a label, not even eclectic even

ManxBalinese: Ah

Hoyden: I just do what my Ladies tell me to, to a point, and no one gets hurt who isn't supposed to :)

ManxBalinese: Yeah. I've developed my own ethics based on common sense and 'do I want this to happen to me'.

Hoyden: sounds like a good plan

ManxBalinese: For example, I never had a need to curse people, it's not worth it in the long term. But I'm awfully tempted to hex corporations at times.

Hoyden: I've heard people say that developing your own ethics is too easy, but I think that if you develop an honest ethical plan, not just a way to get out of stuff, it's actually harder than an ethical system that you pick up off the shelf

ManxBalinese: Yep

Hoyden: mine is self-created although it does dove-tail with conventional ethics quite often

ManxBalinese: Yeah, I'm kinda like that, though I'm not particularly social Hoyden: trying to improve society is so frustrating, there are plenty of times that I wonder if the attempt is worth it

ManxBalinese: I know how you feel. Sometimes that cynical voice in my head wonders if it's the Powers that Be's way of preserving the status quo

Hoyden: what a nasty thought

Hoyden: hey, I'm going to head out, it's been nice talking with you

ManxBalinese: Yeah, I can get a bit paranoid at times. but with the way society is, I wonder...

Hoyden: good night :)

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