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Author Topic: Local Deities?  (Read 3369 times)
Bastemhet
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« Topic Start: September 11, 2009, 09:20:33 pm »

Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?
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« Reply #1: September 16, 2009, 06:52:42 pm »

Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?
Here are just a few lines from A Hymn to Amun-Re (Papyrus Boulaq 17), dating from the 18th Dynasty (1550 - 1350 B.C.):
   "Adoration of Amon-Re, the Bull Residing in Heliopolis, chief of ALL gods, the good god, the beloved, who gives life to ALL that is warm and to ALL good cattle." (CAPS are mine for emphasis.)
   "... Hail to thee, who made all that is! Lord of truth and father of the gods, who made
mortals and created beasts...."
   "Karnak is in satisfaction, Heliopolis is in joy; the heart of the Lady of Life is glad,
for the enemy of her lord is overthrown. The gods of Babylon are in jubilation."
    "Maker of ALL mankind; creator and maker of all that is, in this thy name of Atum-Kepri."
This Prayer can be found in “Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament,” ed. by J.B. Pritchard (Princeton, 1969, 3rd ed.).
The hymn is translated by John A. Wilson, pp. 365 – 67.
Ancient Egypt certainly had a great many gods that were connected with specific locales. But the records indicate that when Egyptians traveled, they took their gods with them. This would seem to indicate that they saw and  understood their gods to have power outside of their specific area or nation.
I also suggest you read “Hymns, Prayers, and Songs”, trans. by John L. Foster (Scholars Press, 1995), for a large selection of ancient texts showing that in ancient Egypt many gods were seen as having universal presence and power. I hope this is helpful.

 
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« Reply #2: September 17, 2009, 02:42:33 am »

Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?

Have you read the thread we did on this a while back? I think it was under the Gods and Goddesses sub-forum... Basically it was your idea.. but applied to Celtic, Norse/Heathen, Greek, etc.
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« Reply #3: September 22, 2009, 04:35:44 am »

Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?

Many of the ancient Egyptian gods began as geographically localized deities, however over the course of Egyptian history They showed a tendency to extend Their influence over larger and larger expanses of land.  And in fact, in the Bentresh stela there is an interesting story about the daughter of a foreign king who became ill, and the presence of the god Khonsu was requested for her healing.  The king of Egypt authorized the transportation of a particular statue of the god to the foreign land, where the healing took place.  To me, this shows that the gods can indeed leave the boundaries of Egypt- and also that this extension may be facilitated by the use of divine images.  Add to this evidence the fact that the gods and goddesses are in fact being encountered by modern practitioners on almost every continent.  Since there are now practicing Kemetics and images of the gods in every corner of the globe, I don't find it at all surprising that the gods are actively engaged around the world.
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« Reply #4: September 22, 2009, 03:21:59 pm »

Since there are now practicing Kemetics and images of the gods in every corner of the globe, I don't find it at all surprising that the gods are actively engaged around the world.

... which probably hasn't been slowed down by theft of / trade in antiquities, for that matter.

I tend to think that the Story of Sinuhe gives a strong feeling that the native Egyptian had a very strong sense of homeland/heartland identified with Egypt, but I don't necessarily see that that is a limitation that the gods Themselves have.

And for what it's worth, I have a very strong sense of homeland/heartland (the area I was born, which is, I note, not where I grew up) myself, which means that I have a tendency to interpret Sinuhe as recognising the notion of home-of-the-heart and native land, wherever that may be.
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« Reply #5: October 15, 2009, 07:48:06 pm »

Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?

I do not have a text to quote, but when Sekhmet came to claim me...she didn't need any texts' permission to club me over the head and drag me away by my hair Smiley --don't worry, I got over my shock, and am loving life (and learning lessons!) with the North American Nile flowing in my backyard (The Red River of the North, actually)!

So if you feel drawn to an Egyptian Diety, by all means answer the call!

*Phoenix
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« Reply #6: December 05, 2009, 06:00:08 pm »

I do not have a text to quote, but when Sekhmet came to claim me...she didn't need any texts' permission to club me over the head and drag me away by my hair Smiley --don't worry, I got over my shock, and am loving life (and learning lessons!) with the North American Nile flowing in my backyard (The Red River of the North, actually)!

So if you feel drawn to an Egyptian Diety, by all means answer the call!

*Phoenix

Oooh. I was wondering if anyone had ever felt the Red River had a Nile vibe to it. It has a very strong flood to it each year as well (I know, not exactly original!) but well.. yeah. Smiley
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« Reply #7: December 06, 2009, 01:48:44 pm »

I do not have a text to quote, but when Sekhmet came to claim me...she didn't need any texts' permission to club me over the head and drag me away by my hair Smiley --don't worry, I got over my shock, and am loving life (and learning lessons!) with the North American Nile flowing in my backyard (The Red River of the North, actually)!

So if you feel drawn to an Egyptian Diety, by all means answer the call!

*Phoenix

My approach is reformed reconstruction, so for me "do what you feel like" does not fly.  The text doesn't give permission, it informs me in my ignorance. 

As for my personal ideas before the great responses from WebenBanu and Darkhawk, I didn't doubt that the gods are capable of going wherever they please, but I was thinking along the lines of how easily their manifestation in terms of indwelling of cult items would be facilitated in foreign lands as opposed to their homeland.  My question has been answered with skill and I thank everyone for contributing.
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« Reply #8: December 07, 2009, 02:39:35 am »


"Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?"



I believe they can be worshippped from any location, especially since the Netjeru are well the Netjeru.  They exist beyond time and space, in the Zep Tepi.  To me, this question is more from a modern Pagan stand point, I am not sure if there a text I could use as a reference.  I would ask a follow-up question, should we as Kemetic people honor the spirit of the land in which we live, especially those of us that don't live in Egypt?  To that I would answer yes, we should connect with the land we live on.

Em Hotep,
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« Reply #9: December 07, 2009, 03:08:15 am »

They exist beyond time and space, in the Zep Tepi.

I'm curious, where did you get the idea that the gods are beyond time and space, and that they reside in Zep Tepi?
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« Reply #10: December 07, 2009, 08:49:27 am »

"Are the Egyptian gods bound to Egyptian soil?  Or can they be worshiped from any place?  What is the text basis for your idea?"

Just a note, NeferSebek--thanks for quoting, but we really need you to use the quote/reply function (located in the upper right of each post) and leave the long quote code in rather than just putting quotation marks around what you're quoting.  When you use the code that the software generates, it creates the purple box with the link above it that leads back to the post you're quoting (for example, my quote of you in this post).  That link is as important to us as the actual words of the quote, because it makes it so much easier to navigate the thread; we can just click on the link rather than searching back through the thread to see who you're quoting and in what context.  Wink

Thanks!
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« Reply #11: December 07, 2009, 09:26:34 pm »

I believe they can be worshippped from any location, especially since the Netjeru are well the Netjeru.  They exist beyond time and space, in the Zep Tepi.

What do you know about the Zep Tepi? I have very limited knowledge about this time period in ancient Egyptian lore. Every time I have tried to look it up, I have been stymied in my attempts. So, please share the knowledge.  Grin
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« Reply #12: December 07, 2009, 10:03:05 pm »

What do you know about the Zep Tepi? I have very limited knowledge about this time period in ancient Egyptian lore. Every time I have tried to look it up, I have been stymied in my attempts. So, please share the knowledge.  Grin

Zep Tepi is the "First Time" and is the creation of the world, the cosmos, everything that exists.  

Zep Tepi is analogous to the sun's journey across the sky, the rejuvination of the cosmos through ritual among other things and as such is a cyclical time as opposed to linear and is renewable every day as the sun rises and sets.  

If you want to know more about creation I would suggest reading the different creation myths.  Some creator deities are Ra, Atum, Amun-Ra, Sobek-Ra, Ptah, Nit, Mehet Weret (an aspect of Hethert, Nit or Aset), Nefertem, Khnum (as a creator of bodies) and Shu.  

A great book on mythology is: Geraldine Pinch's Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses and Traditions of Ancient Egypt.  
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« Reply #13: December 07, 2009, 10:48:17 pm »



If you want to know more about creation I would suggest reading the different creation myths.  Some creator deities are Ra, Atum, Amun-Ra, Sobek-Ra, Ptah, Nit, Mehet Weret (an aspect of Hethert, Nit or Aset), Nefertem, Khnum (as a creator of bodies) and Shu.  

A great book on mythology is: Geraldine Pinch's Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses and Traditions of Ancient Egypt.  

I forgot Djehuty was considered a creator in his city.  And I think Shu is a creator deity only as being the god of air and the "breath of life" at least according to Pinch. 
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I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --Me
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« Reply #14: December 08, 2009, 12:59:21 am »

A great book on mythology is: Geraldine Pinch's Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses and Traditions of Ancient Egypt.  

I think I have that book, too...
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