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Author Topic: Otherkin as a form of Chaos Magic  (Read 5984 times)
Mandi
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« Topic Start: May 07, 2007, 11:01:44 am »

With all the talk about playing different 'roles' by a few of the gals at the cauldron I got wondering.

Is this anything like the non-Christian assuming the perspective of a Christian temporarily for magical purposes?  Someone putting on another 'face' for the purpose of akashaic, metaphysical, occult or other magical uses, and having a "core self" that you live in and are when you are not using metaphysical states.

Is having a continually shifting facade through which you make your way through the world a form of chaos magic?  Is it dangerous or unhealthy to be unable to find a core self that is able to function in the world without creating altered states?  Does the mind need a resting place between perspective shifts to recover?  Is refusing to use those resting states a sign of a magical practice that may be damaging to the mental state of the user?

Since a practitioner of otherkin magic no more has wings than one who doesn't practice the theory, then the concept could also be equally made use of by anyone who is able to persuade themselves even for five minutes a day that they have wings. (or paws, or a horn)

How can one prove that the "authentic" state is any more than a deliberately sought altered state - a built construct without relying on UPG to explain it's existence.  If one does not dissemble a construct that draws it's power from their personal energy, is this damaging to their personal energy levels?  Is refusal to take down a damaging construct an example of addiction?

A person of power in many cases temporarily takes on the forms of other beings.  Becoming a jaguar, or becoming a hawk are common descriptions of spiritual journeys or vision quests.  At the end of this the individual returns to their body, and while the form is available for use, it is a facet of the core identity of the practitioner.  It is something that is called upon deliberately, in ritualized or otherwise spiritual moments and has no use or place in day to day interactions like grocery shopping or driving a car with the exception of crisis situations.

Is the inability to step out of a state that you've created one of the dangers of Chaos Magic?  How would you recommend to a person who has put themselves into a state like this - and perhaps even gains psychological benefits from it that they start working on returning to an unaroused state?

How do otherkin philosophy and chaos perspective shifting differ outside of the claimed inability of the practitioner to banish the form - something that cannot be measured concretely by anything other than the perception of the user and their claimed ability or inability.

How do you differentiate not knowing how to come back to a core personality and not being willing to embody a mundane core personality?
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« Reply #1: May 07, 2007, 12:52:43 pm »

With all the talk about playing different 'roles' by a few of the gals at the cauldron I got wondering.

Is this anything like the non-Christian assuming the perspective of a Christian temporarily for magical purposes?  Someone putting on another 'face' for the purpose of akashaic, metaphysical, occult or other magical uses, and having a "core self" that you live in and are when you are not using metaphysical states.

I'm not sure that's a Chaos magic question per say, rather than a generic magical question re: roles.  In Chaos magic no 'role' or 'identity' is considered objectively true, so I'm not sure Chaos magic would consider there to be a core self as such.  Possibly a more habitually used self.

Quote
Is having a continually shifting facade through which you make your way through the world a form of chaos magic?

It could be, but just doing that doesn't make it Chaos magic.  Does lighting a fire mean you're cooking?  Only if you're intending to, and follow up by putting something on it.  Chaos magic suggests identity shifts as one of its tools.  But as with all tools, there should be a purpose in how its done.  If the shifting is uncontrolled, I'd call it a coping mechanism, not a tool, and not Chaos Magic.  If one sees an advantage in changing, and does so deliberately, without seeing either identity as 'more true', than I would call that a form of Chaos magic.

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Is it dangerous or unhealthy to be unable to find a core self that is able to function in the world without creating altered states?

Well the key there is 'unable.'  And it would depend on how it impacts an individual in question.  If it doesn't impact, than it probably isn't unhealthy per say.  That said, it sounds like you're talking about multiple personality disorder (there's a new term for it now, but I can't remember it).  I think it depends on how you see your core self.  No matter how my personality shifts, it's still me.  So I remember everything, who my friends are, etc.  From that point of view, even if I regularly changed, it probably wouldn't impact beyond my friends wondering what I'd be like on a given occasion.

You also mention resting periods.  Whether or not one could function without them, I suspect that the 'core personality' you refer to will be returned to anyway - it's a habit after all.  To not return would involve constant effort.  Which from a Chaos magic point of view would be dumb.  After all, personality shifts should have a purpose to them.

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Since a practitioner of otherkin magic no more has wings than one who doesn't practice the theory, then the concept could also be equally made use of by anyone who is able to persuade themselves even for five minutes a day that they have wings. (or paws, or a horn)

From the Chaos point of view, there is no objective truth to the other-kin experience.  The key question then would be 'yes, you could form an impression of having wings, but what will yougain from this?'  If someone could fly, that would be a lot more important than whether the wings existed, or if this meant that a guy was really a dragon.  The thing is that he can fly. Smiley

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How can one prove that the "authentic" state is any more than a deliberately sought altered state - a built construct without relying on UPG to explain it's existence.  If one does not dissemble a construct that draws it's power from their personal energy, is this damaging to their personal energy levels?  Is refusal to take down a damaging construct an example of addiction?

I have to confess, I'm not sure what you mean here.  Chaos shys away from calling anything authentic or true.


Quote
Is the inability to step out of a state that you've created one of the dangers of Chaos Magic?

Not that I've ever known.  I've never experienced this, nor ever found a Chaote who reported this in themselves, or an aquaintance.  Anyone who can't shift back to a *habitual* personality likely has pre-existing problems.  I can see the idea of something you meant earlier, someone trying to *stay* in an alternate identity, but I've never heard of anything like an inability to 'return'.

Quote
  How would you recommend to a person who has put themselves into a state like this - and perhaps even gains psychological benefits from it that they start working on returning to an unaroused state?

I'd probably question what their current personality is like if they're stuck in it.  If it's functional, why worry?

That said, I've never seen this, nor heard of it.  If I encountered it I would be more likely to think mental health problems and try tackling that first.  With an episode of mental ill-health changes in personality are possible.
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« Reply #2: May 07, 2007, 06:40:43 pm »

Is this anything like the non-Christian assuming the perspective of a Christian temporarily for magical purposes?  Someone putting on another 'face' for the purpose of akashaic, metaphysical, occult or other magical uses, and having a "core self" that you live in and are when you are not using metaphysical states.

I can think of only a few cases where something like this would be useful to me, but I can see how assuming the mantle of a dragon or a vampire or whatever could be a useful focus for some types of magic -- and for some types of mages.
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« Reply #3: May 08, 2007, 12:33:31 pm »

I can think of only a few cases where something like this would be useful to me, but I can see how assuming the mantle of a dragon or a vampire or whatever could be a useful focus for some types of magic -- and for some types of mages.

In fact, many shamanic and totemic practices suggest doing exactly this, although they tend to reccomend that you use totems and power animals that represent creatures on this plane of existence.  Some see this more as a form of voluntary possession rather than assuming a mantle, but the line is thin.  I've taken on Hawk, Cormorant, Dog, Cat, Wolf, and Tiger at various times as mantles in and out of shamanic practice (which I dabble in rather than actually practice on a regular basis).  I've also taken on Dragon and Elf as thought experiments, and various vampires as I LARP.  I'm not sure where the line is.  I either willingly create a personality and then I enter it, or I allow a spirit to enter me and temporarily influence my personality.  It's hard to tell which I'm doing sometimes.
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« Reply #4: May 09, 2007, 09:38:33 am »

In fact, many shamanic and totemic practices suggest doing exactly this, although they tend to reccomend that you use totems and power animals that represent creatures on this plane of existence.  Some see this more as a form of voluntary possession rather than assuming a mantle, but the line is thin.  I've taken on Hawk, Cormorant, Dog, Cat, Wolf, and Tiger at various times as mantles in and out of shamanic practice (which I dabble in rather than actually practice on a regular basis).  I've also taken on Dragon and Elf as thought experiments, and various vampires as I LARP.  I'm not sure where the line is.  I either willingly create a personality and then I enter it, or I allow a spirit to enter me and temporarily influence my personality.  It's hard to tell which I'm doing sometimes.

I do something really similar to this when I'm reading fictional books.  Whichever character I happen to be relating to, I "build" and usually for the course of the few days during or just after reading the book I try them on for awhile.

I've done cat till I'm blue in the face, and bored to tears with cat and there will be moments where I'll have dreams as hawk.  For the most part I see it as an option rather than something I actively work with often because while it's pleasurable, it's not on my top ten projects.

I think there are steps to the creation or channeling.  I'm not sure which it is either, so I can't really draw a line one way or the other.  First step for me is usually observation.  Why cat is so easy to do.  Cat is easiest (for me) to observe, and once you've started examining the musculature of an animal, the rest becomes a pretty intuitive process.

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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
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« Reply #5: May 09, 2007, 01:35:29 pm »


Is having a continually shifting facade through which you make your way through the world a form of chaos magic?  Is it dangerous or unhealthy to be unable to find a core self that is able to function in the world without creating altered states? 


When it comes to the 'self' I've been heavily influenced by Buddhist thought -- I don't believe there is a 'core self'. Everything is continually changing, and I think the 'core self' is the facade we have a habit of putting on the most.

Quote
Does the mind need a resting place between perspective shifts to recover?  Is refusing to use those resting states a sign of a magical practice that may be damaging to the mental state of the user?

This is an interesting question...I'd say that if it's possible to live within the perspective you've shifted to, then really there's no need for a 'resting place'. (e.g. if I shift to the perspective that I'm a 46 year-old Vodouin practitioner, that's a pretty livable paradigm). So it follows that if you can't live within your new perspective, it's damaging.

Quote
How can one prove that the "authentic" state is any more than a deliberately sought altered state - a built construct without relying on UPG to explain it's existence.

I don't think it's possible unless you can go outside the whole spectrum of states. Hence my scepticism.  Wink

Quote
If one does not dissemble a construct that draws it's power from their personal energy, is this damaging to their personal energy levels?  Is refusal to take down a damaging construct an example of addiction?


Depends exactly how your personal energy is powering it, I think. But yeah, if you're feeding the thing energy but getting nothing back, or diminishing returns, then that's probably addiction.

Quote
Is the inability to step out of a state that you've created one of the dangers of Chaos Magic? 

I don't think it's necessarily a danger of Chaos Magic per se, it's a danger of any perspective shift. Though since Chaos Magic encourages those shifts, the risk rises I guess.

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How would you recommend to a person who has put themselves into a state like this - and perhaps even gains psychological benefits from it that they start working on returning to an unaroused state?

This question is personally relevant to me because I realized a while ago that I was identifying unhealthily with some stuff I was researching. It sort of seeped into my subconscious and I reinforced it by drawing on the symbolism a lot. I didn't reverse it; I just started consciously modelling myself after other things, some of which went against the previous stuff. It's like finding a new addiction to take your mind off the old one, though you have to make sure the new one's doing you more good.  Smiley

Quote
How do otherkin philosophy and chaos perspective shifting differ outside of the claimed inability of the practitioner to banish the form - something that cannot be measured concretely by anything other than the perception of the user and their claimed ability or inability.

I have no idea, but that's an interesting idea!

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How do you differentiate not knowing how to come back to a core personality and not being willing to embody a mundane core personality?

Since I don't believe in a 'core', I see both as the same thing.
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« Reply #6: April 12, 2010, 01:35:41 pm »

Shamanic Ecstasy
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« Reply #7: April 12, 2010, 03:21:54 pm »

Shamanic Ecstasy

What about it?

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