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Author Topic: Offerings and sacrifice-what do they mean?  (Read 9231 times)
happy
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« Reply #15: October 13, 2009, 01:29:14 pm »

When I say I don't believe deity can be nasty,I mean that with Catholicism and particularly through that,my strong link with the Virgin Mary and somewhat the saints and their lives,that I always felt the good side of things,I never saw God/Jesus as nasty/irritable,but patient and forgiving.I was then very upset reading the Old Testament and knew that wasn't my God,the God I saw.The thing with the cultures is that sometimes I think things are almost made-up or that it is bad that deity merely springs from narrow culture bases,it doesn't seem universal,things seem too tied to certain countries,even though I am in close proximity to the many original countries from which the religions sprung and there isn't much on the transference for example of the celtic deities whom did have their rituals spread across Europe,but local deities and those beliefs got mixed up with main pantheons,so I'm always confused on that and how the intermarrying concept if you will works.When I mentioned God-forms I meant deities.
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jafa
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« Reply #16: October 13, 2009, 07:23:31 pm »

When I say I don't believe deity can be nasty,I mean that with Catholicism and particularly through that,my strong link with the Virgin Mary and somewhat the saints and their lives,that I always felt the good side of things,I never saw God/Jesus as nasty/irritable,but patient and forgiving.I was then very upset reading the Old Testament and knew that wasn't my God,the God I saw.
It sounds to me that you would be happier remaining Catholic, or at least devoted to Mary.  I was raised with the Old Testament and see nothing frightening about it.  I still retain a certain belief about some of the events, just not the players.

The thing with the cultures is that sometimes I think things are almost made-up or that it is bad that deity merely springs from narrow culture bases,it doesn't seem universal,things seem too tied to certain countries,
Why does a religion need to be universal, perhaps certain dieties are natural to only certain areas.  A narrow cultural base is not the bad thing you seem to think it is.  It seems an xtian thing to think that a religion must spread and be accepted everywhere as if their way is the only one.
but local deities and those beliefs got mixed up with main pantheons,so I'm always confused on that and how the intermarrying concept if you will works.
In my opinion, some of the mixture that you are seeing is the result of cultural assimilation (apologies for spelling).
jafa
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« Reply #17: October 13, 2009, 08:56:13 pm »

The thing with the cultures is that sometimes I think things are almost made-up or that it is bad that deity merely springs from narrow culture bases,it doesn't seem universal,things seem too tied to certain countries,even though I am in close proximity to the many original countries from which the religions sprung and there isn't much on the transference for example of the celtic deities whom did have their rituals spread across Europe,but local deities and those beliefs got mixed up with main pantheons,so I'm always confused on that and how the intermarrying concept if you will works.When I mentioned God-forms I meant deities.

Paganism as it was historically was a combination of many local celebrations and rites, and is one reason why in say, 100 AD you start seeing religions in general have a more universal theme.   (at one time 10% of the Roman population was Jewish, and the Cult of Mithras and some of the other mystery religions apparently had a more universal theme then earlier religions.  And then came Christianity and Islam. 
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SunflowerP
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« Reply #18: October 13, 2009, 11:09:55 pm »

Hi, Happy - please don't forget to quote when you reply.  Thanks!

Sunflower
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« Reply #19: October 14, 2009, 12:18:54 am »



 I see the high/complex ritual and flowery language that I dislike and also the offerings/sacrifice part.Many feel that the Divine must be given certain rituals because they are certain Gods,that they like/dislike certain things,that we must offer foodstuffs/drinks when requesting things.Due to my RC background,which I've talked of a lot,I still feel the Divine has no need for these things and it feels silly and like bribery to me.
I also have a problem with Gods being of a certain culture and having to respect all Gods,particularly if one is not called to serve him/her.  

I am also uncomfortable with complex ritual and flowery language.  Also somewhat with sacrifice.  I think perhaps these things have the meaning that we as individuals impute to them rather than specific meanings.  As far as offerings and sacrifices go, I keep fresh flowers on my altar (fresh greens in the winter) and offer fire and fragrance in the form of candles and incense when I perform a simple ceremony.  I just like it.....perhaps it's as much for me as for my Goddesses.  I also light a separate, single candle as a gesture of respect for all other Gods/Goddesses, although I don't think it's necessary.....I think that the respect we need to show those whom we don't worship is simply not speaking without respect for either them or their followers. 
I have difficulty leaving foodstuffs or drink as offerings/sacrifices, although when I read how others feel about it, it makes sense that they do it their way.  I once left a glass of red wine out for Sekhmet and felt like a twit doing it.  It was meaningless to me.  I've decided that if she and I have a relationship, it's on a different level of communication.  The only other offerings I make are occasional donations to organizations that fall within the Goddesses' particular area of interest  (ex.:  Sekmet was worshiped for centuries as a healer, so in her honor I donate to Doctors Without Borders).  I also do various volunteer activities which I do in my Goddesses' names....again, those activities seem to follow what I perceive as their areas of interest/expertise.
We, as persons, have different relationships/behaviors with all others with whom we interact.  I feel that the same may be true of our relationships with the Gods/Goddesses we chose to worship....we each interact/worship in our own way.   
Yes, I'm sure that there are many who may disagree with me, but this is the way I see it and the way I live it. 
Be well and enjoy your worship.
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« Reply #20: October 14, 2009, 06:39:44 am »

Funny, the individuality of deities in a polytheist context is exactly what helped me to built a relationship I never was able to built with the Christian universalist God. Some universal 'love' just doesn't say anything to me as an individual person. I need to work with deities who have very specific individual characteristics in order to develop my individual spirituality.
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Monica M.
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« Reply #21: October 14, 2009, 07:05:44 am »


I was thinking more about sacrifices and sometimes I wonder if the gods take their own if they want them. I don't mean like when crazy people murder and pretend "god" told them to but maybe some natural diasters or other unexpected events. Am I just nuts?
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Anteros
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« Reply #22: October 14, 2009, 11:03:25 am »

Hm. If the sacrifices and multiple gods don't speak to you, then I would think that's not your path. Are you looking for a 'school', a tradition you want to join?
Because -- why don't you just practice your spirituality the way it feels right to you? Create your own path, your own school.


Btw, I am wondering about sacrifices myself. I actually like to offer something to deities and spirits, but I can't help wondering if a goddess or a god really wants (needs?!?) that, or if it's something for ourselves, to feel connected.



I can't offer an answer, I can only add my own questions.
I must say couple words here. I am a rebel. Smiley Always. All religious paths provide "rules" of worship and behavior. BUT for me, no. I never respect all that is said. Example. While I was Orthodox Christian, I had my view on Bible, even though it is forbidden to think in other ways than Church. Now I am Kemetic, but I don't feel I need to preform Senut, or to bath in Natron. No, I do as I want. I am practicing Hellenic, but I really don't feel I need to read hymns during worship. Same is with offerings. When I feel I need to do that, I do, when I don't feel, I do nothing. It's going pretty well I must say, 'cause deities aren't complaining about my way. Smiley Hope this helped.
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Waldfrau
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« Reply #23: October 14, 2009, 01:14:56 pm »

I was thinking more about sacrifices and sometimes I wonder if the gods take their own if they want them. I don't mean like when crazy people murder and pretend "god" told them to but maybe some natural diasters or other unexpected events. Am I just nuts?
I don't think they would really die from starvation if we don't offer, but it's nice to get your dinner cooked by someone with candle light and all, isn't it?
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Rowanfox
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« Reply #24: October 14, 2009, 01:38:44 pm »

BTW is British Traditional Wicca Smiley.

Wow, I HAVE been off the net for a while..... in my time, BTW was British Traditional Witchcraft.

Just adding my 2 cents, not really relavant to the conversation. And while I do consider offerings and sacrifice to be a deeply spiritual part of my traditional, I couldn't begin to explain the meaning to anyone that was not of like mind.....
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« Reply #25: October 14, 2009, 03:05:05 pm »

Wow, I HAVE been off the net for a while..... in my time, BTW was British Traditional Witchcraft.


I think that might be what is now often referenced as TIW - Traditional Initiatory Witchcraft.  Not Wicca but related, like the Cochrane - ish trads.

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« Reply #26: October 14, 2009, 03:09:37 pm »

Wow, I HAVE been off the net for a while..... in my time, BTW was British Traditional Witchcraft.

I've seen it interpreted as both Wicca and Witchcraft.  I think it depends on who you ask.
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« Reply #27: October 15, 2009, 04:06:32 am »

I don't think they would really die from starvation if we don't offer, but it's nice to get your dinner cooked by someone with candle light and all, isn't it?

That makes sense. It's always nice to be remembered. I could do with a candlelit dinner myself.  Smiley
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« Reply #28: October 15, 2009, 12:53:04 pm »

I think that might be what is now often referenced as TIW - Traditional Initiatory Witchcraft.  Not Wicca but related, like the Cochrane - ish trads.

Absent

Well, I'm an old school Gardnerian. We self identified as British Traditional Witchcraft, and Wiccan. I guess this is just another example of how defeinitions can change over time..... especially if British Traditional Witchcraft or TIW is no longer considered Wiccan...... eep
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