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Author Topic: Special Discussion: Seeker FAQ project  (Read 26511 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #45: October 28, 2009, 09:33:16 pm »

Something that I either missed or wasn't there- anything about eclectic paths?  Things like: What does it mean, eclectic? How can a meaningful practice be built?  What are some of the potential pitfalls?  Can I just take what I want and discard the rest?

(And if I overlooked this in your list, feel free to ignore me.  It's the end of a long day and I'm feeling a bit mentally fuzzy right now.)

Crap, no, it's not on there, and it TOTALLY should be!   Embarrassed

I'll add that in the next version!  Thanks!
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« Reply #46: October 28, 2009, 09:39:13 pm »

Crap, no, it's not on there, and it TOTALLY should be!   Embarrassed

I'll add that in the next version!  Thanks!

Thanks, I feel a bit better about my mental functioning now.  Cheesy
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« Reply #47: October 28, 2009, 10:59:19 pm »

Basic Glossary
Major Pagan religions
   Wicca
   Neo-Wicca
   Asatru
   Hellenism
   Kemeticism
   Other?

Might I suggest:

Major Pagan Religions
   Religious Witchcraft
       Wicca
       Neo-Wicca
       (Wiccish Stuff Like What Jenett or Sunflower Do?)
       Reclaiming
       Feri
   Reconstructions
       Asatru
       Hellenismos
       CR
       Kemeticism
       Religio Romana
       Etc.
   Other
       Thelema
       (Other ceremonial-derived religions?)
       Eclectic/Syncretic paganisms (might I suggest a link to my eclecticism essay?)
       Um, stuff

Quote
Ritual formats
   circle casting – required/methods/point of it
   blots
   other?

Formal ritual and casual ritual with subcategories of each?
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« Reply #48: October 28, 2009, 11:07:43 pm »

Basic Glossary
Major Pagan religions
   Wicca
   Neo-Wicca
   Asatru
   Hellenism
   Kemeticism
   Other?

I'm feeling like it would be a good idea to have a section of Buddhism/Daoism/other Eastern faiths here also. They get bundled in to the pagan umbrella frequently enough that it seems they should be mentioned even if only to say something along the lines of "some folks consider these pagan, some don't. Whether you choose to do so or not is really up to you. You might want to take a look at TC's definition of Pagan [do we have a spot for that in here yet?] with emphasis on the 'self-identifies' bit."

It would also be nice to have a little info on these, but it's on a lower level of importance compared to the more clearly pagan paths. If y'all do think that's a good idea then I'd be happy to collaborate on it with someone. There are several people on this forum who know a lot more about Buddhism than I do who might be better suited to draft the main thing as Buddhism is probably the one which comes up most frequently. I'd be happy to add in a couple of paragraphs on Daoism.
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« Reply #49: October 29, 2009, 12:37:20 am »

Something that I either missed or wasn't there- anything about eclectic paths?  Things like: What does it mean, eclectic? How can a meaningful practice be built?  What are some of the potential pitfalls?  Can I just take what I want and discard the rest?

Eclectic/Syncretic paganisms (might I suggest a link to my eclecticism essay?)
OH, HELLS YEAH!!!  (Why, yes, I really do like that essay that much.)

Also, this might be a good moment to note something I've been feeling kinda cranky about:  the usage of "Wicca" to mean BTW, combined with putting everything else that's more than just "Wiccish" under "NeoWicca", kind of erases decades of Eclectic Wicca (Eclectic technically-shouldn't-be-called-Wicca-but-we-got-dumped-on-for-calling-it-Witchcraft) that's as much a different religion from "two-word Rede, sex and death are icky" NeoWicca as Eclectic Wicca-derived Witchcraft is from BTW, if not more so.  It's been happening quite a bit lately, and it seems to be creeping into the underlying assumptions of the suggested lists of topics here.

Sunflower
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« Reply #50: October 29, 2009, 01:17:52 am »



Happy to help any way I can. I put together some of this sort of stuff as part of my job quite often and can probably manage to stick to a deadline if needed. I'll look over the list and maybe volunteer for a particular topic or two, but I'm also happy to help people find relevant threads on a given topic, or to hunt through threads looking for threads that have been used for pointing people to in the past, etc.

Oh, and I'm a trained copy editor, if that helps.
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« Reply #51: October 29, 2009, 01:18:33 am »

Also, this might be a good moment to note something I've been feeling kinda cranky about:  the usage of "Wicca" to mean BTW, combined with putting everything else that's more than just "Wiccish" under "NeoWicca", kind of erases decades of Eclectic Wicca (Eclectic technically-shouldn't-be-called-Wicca-but-we-got-dumped-on-for-calling-it-Witchcraft) that's as much a different religion from "two-word Rede, sex and death are icky" NeoWicca as Eclectic Wicca-derived Witchcraft is from BTW, if not more so.  It's been happening quite a bit lately, and it seems to be creeping into the underlying assumptions of the suggested lists of topics here.

I'm having trouble parsing out how you're defining Wicca vs. Eclectic Wicca vs. "Wiccish", but that's probably in part due to the fact that I'm really tired.  
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« Reply #52: October 29, 2009, 01:21:20 am »

...some folks consider these pagan, some don't...

Perhaps something that touches on the reasons why they get lumped in - the similarities (and maybe even the differences).
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« Reply #53: October 29, 2009, 07:09:21 am »

OH, HELLS YEAH!!!  (Why, yes, I really do like that essay that much.)

Also, this might be a good moment to note something I've been feeling kinda cranky about:  the usage of "Wicca" to mean BTW, combined with putting everything else that's more than just "Wiccish" under "NeoWicca", kind of erases decades of Eclectic Wicca (Eclectic technically-shouldn't-be-called-Wicca-but-we-got-dumped-on-for-calling-it-Witchcraft) that's as much a different religion from "two-word Rede, sex and death are icky" NeoWicca as Eclectic Wicca-derived Witchcraft is from BTW, if not more so.  It's been happening quite a bit lately, and it seems to be creeping into the underlying assumptions of the suggested lists of topics here.

Sunflower

Would something like the section on "Points on a spectrum" here: http://gleewood.org/threshold/about/background/religiouswitchcraft/ be of use? (That's from my blog, and the rest of those posts, except for the specific-to-me and specific-to-my-trad stuff would also be fair game if they're helpful.)

But I wrote that specifically for people unfamiliar with Wicca to explain how different people use the term (and then how I use it, and what I use instead for the points beyond that.)
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« Reply #54: October 29, 2009, 07:56:41 am »

Might I suggest:
*snip*
Formal ritual and casual ritual with subcategories of each?

I am TOTALLY going with that one.  Thanks.  Smiley
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« Reply #55: October 29, 2009, 07:58:22 am »

OH, HELLS YEAH!!!  (Why, yes, I really do like that essay that much.)

Also, this might be a good moment to note something I've been feeling kinda cranky about:  the usage of "Wicca" to mean BTW, combined with putting everything else that's more than just "Wiccish" under "NeoWicca", kind of erases decades of Eclectic Wicca (Eclectic technically-shouldn't-be-called-Wicca-but-we-got-dumped-on-for-calling-it-Witchcraft) that's as much a different religion from "two-word Rede, sex and death are icky" NeoWicca as Eclectic Wicca-derived Witchcraft is from BTW, if not more so.  It's been happening quite a bit lately, and it seems to be creeping into the underlying assumptions of the suggested lists of topics here.

Sunflower

Honestly - I was putting together what I had so we COULD discuss it.  I didn't mean to exclude people - you'll notice that there's tons of stuff I flat-out forgot.  This is a framework to begin discussion!

I totally don't want to leave groups like you out - I'm just not sure where you GO anymore!  Not my area, y'know?
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« Reply #56: October 29, 2009, 11:12:48 pm »

I'm having trouble parsing out how you're defining Wicca vs. Eclectic Wicca vs. "Wiccish", but that's probably in part due to the fact that I'm really tired. 
Probably because I'm not defining, so much as talking about variation in existing definitions.  Jenett's article covers that really well - using her framework, I'm talking about how, when "Wicca" is confined to cluster one, people sometimes lump all of clusters two through five together under "NeoWicca", eliding both the actual differences among them, and the long history of the use of "Eclectic Wicca" to refer to (approximately) clusters two and three.  (My use of "Wiccish" was in the phrase "everything more than just Wiccish" - that is, I was referring to the clusters, but not to other things that use Wiccanesque bits but don't consider themselves Wiccan at all.)

Jenett:  I really liked that when you posted it on DW, and I really like it now; it's the best description I've ever seen of how the word "Wicca" gets used by different people.  I think it has a place in the FAQ - but I also think it may not be a complete solution, since it doesn't map exactly to the BTW/Eclectic Wicca/NeoWicca terminology (not that there's much exactness to the terms in themselves), which TC's FAQ will probably want to get into.  (Also, I'm wondering if it might have a place in the Teen FAQ - I volunteered to write the "What is Wicca?" section for that, and then didn't have the spoons/time, so there's a bit of a hole there, and your essay is better than anything I could have done.)

Sunflower
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« Reply #57: October 29, 2009, 11:26:09 pm »

Probably because I'm not defining, so much as talking about variation in existing definitions.  Jenett's article covers that really well - using her framework, I'm talking about how, when "Wicca" is confined to cluster one, people sometimes lump all of clusters two through five together under "NeoWicca", eliding both the actual differences among them, and the long history of the use of "Eclectic Wicca" to refer to (approximately) clusters two and three.  (My use of "Wiccish" was in the phrase "everything more than just Wiccish" - that is, I was referring to the clusters, but not to other things that use Wiccanesque bits but don't consider themselves Wiccan at all.)

Okay, I appreciate the clarification Smiley

I second what you said about Jenett's spectrum. 

(Why does "Jenett's Spectrum" sounds like it should be some theory on child development from the 60's?)
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« Reply #58: October 29, 2009, 11:39:24 pm »

Jenett:  I really liked that when you posted it on DW, and I really like it now; it's the best description I've ever seen of how the word "Wicca" gets used by different people.  I think it has a place in the FAQ - but I also think it may not be a complete solution, since it doesn't map exactly to the BTW/Eclectic Wicca/NeoWicca terminology (not that there's much exactness to the terms in themselves), which TC's FAQ will probably want to get into.  (Also, I'm wondering if it might have a place in the Teen FAQ - I volunteered to write the "What is Wicca?" section for that, and then didn't have the spoons/time, so there's a bit of a hole there, and your essay is better than anything I could have done.)

I'm glad it's helpful! It's one of those things that apparently had to gel in my brain for something like five years, and then all came spilling out when someone asked just the right question. (In this case, someone who I knew was geeky about language use and community communication, but had no background in Paganism.)

I tend to map BTW to cluster 1, structured eclectic (i.e. people borrow, but they fit it into a structure that has some persistence) into cluster two and three, and Neo-Wicca for clusters 4 and 5. (Unless I'm being deeply cynical, when I feel Cluster 5 isn't Wicca of any stripe except maybe Wiccish.) And I consider what I do to be cluster 3, and probably better with a different term. (Because we're structured, initiatory, have internal mysteries, etc. but it's increasingly clear they're somewhat different mysteries from Wicca.) But I can see arguments for different divisions. (And it's not in the essay precisely because I was still pondering that set of divisions when I wrote it, and didn't want to commit to anything specific until I'd poked at it a good while.)
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« Reply #59: October 29, 2009, 11:49:51 pm »

Honestly - I was putting together what I had so we COULD discuss it.  I didn't mean to exclude people - you'll notice that there's tons of stuff I flat-out forgot.  This is a framework to begin discussion!

I totally don't want to leave groups like you out - I'm just not sure where you GO anymore!  Not my area, y'know?
Heh - as I said, it's that I've been getting cranky about it.  I thought what I was doing was adding that point to the discussion - briefly, because it's just one item about just one (family of) Pagan religion(s) - but I guess I sounded too, well, cranky.  It's not the omission from people's suggested topics lists in this thread that does it, it's the usage trend in other threads (that the omission here might or might not be related to).

So, yeah - for here, that's just, "Don't forget that Eclectic Wicca is part of that set, too."  I'll give the "cranky about usage trends" part its own thread elsewhere when I get a chance.

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