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Author Topic: Philosophy in religion?  (Read 5292 times)
BGMarc
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« Topic Start: October 31, 2009, 03:10:45 am »

What do people here think the legitimate/useful roles are for philosophy within the context of religion? Various ancient and classical Greek and Roman philosophers activly enquired into the nature of the gods and into the role dictated for religion by reason, along with a raft of other religiously-related thinking and practice. So, what are philosophers good for in your religion?
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« Reply #1: November 02, 2009, 11:22:54 am »

What do people here think the legitimate/useful roles are for philosophy within the context of religion?

I think they are good for those who want to know whys and hows and such.  Questions are often not well addressed by 'bibles', and religious philosophy goes beyond the pendantic tone often found in religious texts.
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« Reply #2: November 02, 2009, 11:23:59 am »

What do people here think the legitimate/useful roles are for philosophy within the context of religion? Various ancient and classical Greek and Roman philosophers activly enquired into the nature of the gods and into the role dictated for religion by reason, along with a raft of other religiously-related thinking and practice. So, what are philosophers good for in your religion?

Kindling! Cheesy

actually, FlameKeeping is pretty much on the religion/philosophy line.  With a larger-than-I'd-like dollop of self-help at times.

So I'm not sure the question really applies - since if you get rid of the philosophy, there's not much left!
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samham73
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« Reply #3: November 03, 2009, 06:10:01 pm »

What do people here think the legitimate/useful roles are for philosophy within the context of religion? Various ancient and classical Greek and Roman philosophers activly enquired into the nature of the gods and into the role dictated for religion by reason, along with a raft of other religiously-related thinking and practice. So, what are philosophers good for in your religion?

Im not entirly sure that philosophy fits well with religion, seem as though philosophy is seen as trying to answer the question "why?" and doing that with rational thoughts. Philosophy seems to be the best friend of science, seems as science could not exist without philosophy or we would live in a world without empathy or in a world without morals. But philosophers arnt very good for religion because they try and find the reason "why?" and with religion you cant justify the answer with proof but only faith. For example: "We cant prove that the gods exist, they`re just there/they just do".
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« Reply #4: November 03, 2009, 09:35:52 pm »

For example: "We cant prove that the gods exist, they`re just there/they just do".

Many philosophers were disagree and would claim that they can prove that God exists.
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« Reply #5: November 03, 2009, 11:17:46 pm »

with religion you cant justify the answer with proof but only faith.
<raises eyebrows> Those religions that are not faith-based would be very surprised to hear this.

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BGMarc
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« Reply #6: November 04, 2009, 01:21:40 am »

religious philosophy goes beyond the pendantic tone often found in religious texts.

Are there any areas that it goes into that you find more useful than others?
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BGMarc
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« Reply #7: November 04, 2009, 01:30:48 am »

Im not entirly sure that philosophy fits well with religion, seem as though philosophy is seen as trying to answer the question "why?" and doing that with rational thoughts.

It is often the case that philosophy is focused on the whys of a thing and it is always the case that it proceeds along an explicit line of reasoning (that is adequately supported at each linkage). There is also a lot of philosophy that focuses on the whats though: What is it that exists? What do we actually mean when we use certain terms? What sort of proof is needed to support a given claim?

Do you think that this sort of philosophy is as much at odds with religion as that which examines the whys?

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...with religion you cant justify the answer with proof but only faith. For example: "We cant prove that the gods exist, they`re just there/they just do".

Do you think that there are any questions posed by religion that can be answered other than via faith?

The sort of questions I have in mind (and which springboards off your example) are ones such as "These gods you believe in, what are they? How do they influence the world? When you say that they exist, what is it you are actually claiming about reality? Are you claiming that there are (for example) twelve supersized, anthropomorphic, physical entities that reside at the top of a famous mountain in Greece?
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"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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« Reply #8: November 04, 2009, 01:33:10 am »

Many philosophers were disagree and would claim that they can prove that God exists.

It seems to me that the more generally-accepted proofs rely on the listener being a believer (and so accepting some of the premises) or 'cheat' by defining deity to be something other than people's more common, inuitive understandings of the word. Both are quite respectable philosophy IMHO, but should be clearly labelled before being offered to consumers as a bargain Smiley
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"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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« Reply #9: November 04, 2009, 11:36:58 am »

Are there any areas that it goes into that you find more useful than others?

Personally I don't.  I am not really looking for some great meaning or purpose in life, and I realize that I am probably in the minority on this planet.  If I had not been thwapped, I would be an atheist.  My comment was based on growing up Catholic and having had conversations with various priests and Jesuits.  Most educated religious Catholics are very interested in the philosophy related to their religion, and will discuss it avidly.   
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« Reply #10: November 05, 2009, 12:07:47 pm »

<raises eyebrows> Those religions that are not faith-based would be very surprised to hear this.

Sunflower

What religions do not have faith?
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HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #11: November 05, 2009, 12:18:38 pm »

What religions do not have faith?

There is a difference between having faith and being faith-based.  There are religions where the proper PRACTICE matters far more than the belief, and people in the same religion can be of wildly differing beliefs.  Like, say, Wicca.
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samham73
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« Reply #12: November 05, 2009, 12:45:32 pm »

There is a difference between having faith and being faith-based.  There are religions where the proper PRACTICE matters far more than the belief, and people in the same religion can be of wildly differing beliefs.  Like, say, Wicca.

So, are you stating that you can be part of a religion and not have faith or believe in the gods in that religion? And that wiccans do not believe in the gods? All you need to do is practise the customs?

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« Reply #13: November 05, 2009, 12:48:43 pm »

So, are you stating that you can be part of a religion and not have faith or believe in the gods in that religion? And that wiccans do not believe in the gods? All you need to do is practise the customs?



There is a wide variety of beliefs you can have - what matters is the practices.  (As I understand it, I am not Wiccan - so if I get this wrong, please understand it's ignorance and not malice).  But if you follow the practices correctly, it doesn't MATTER if your view of the gods is soft polytheist and the person next to you is hard polytheist and the person across from you is unitarian.  What matters is that the practices are correct.
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« Reply #14: November 05, 2009, 02:59:46 pm »

So, are you stating that you can be part of a religion and not have faith or believe in the gods in that religion?

I certainly think faith is completely overrated, myself.  I don't have any use for it, which is arguably fine 'cos I don't appear to have any capacity for it either.

It's not necessary for my religion either.  I mean, the ancients were prone to telling the gods, "Look, if you don't fix this thing, the offerings will stop" or "I'll make you a special gift if you do this", all tangible, real-world stuff.  I started faffing around in Egyptiana and tried the basic ritual in the spirit of "I guess I should give this a whirl once, but rituals make me feel like a dork" and discovered that, among other things, it was a functional control on my mental illness issues.  Believing in what works works for me.
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