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Author Topic: FlameKeeping - Stories from the future  (Read 16310 times)
Fagan_the_Pagan
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« Reply #15: November 11, 2009, 12:16:06 am »

I'm working on the mythology of FlameKeeping, and this is the first one I've written.  So - does it make sense?  For those of you that have read some of my stuff, does it *fit*?  Does it teach you anything, or do you just want to gag?  Etc.  All critique welcome.

It makes sense and is very engaging, though it's really more of a summary than a story in itself.  It reads like a prologue.  Very, "this is where we are, and I am going to tell you how we got there."  It doesn't, in itself, tell us a story.  There's nothing wrong with having that, but if you are trying to create a mythology, then we are ultimately going to want to see, as Marc said, characters, settings, events, etc.
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« Reply #16: November 11, 2009, 01:16:21 am »

Now that I like.  Gave me the goosebumpies.  Smiley

I'm liking it all (although I haven't had time to both read and give considered feedback this week). The common theme I'm still noting in my response to each piece is that I feel like I'm reading somebody's interpretation of a story/response to a story that they have read, but that I haven't.

I feel like I want to read the story that they read; and then to arrive at the messages being presented, as a result of my own understanding. I want the context that leads me to believe the lessons on my own terms, rather than simply accepting them.

I'm also having a lot of trouble with mythic discource in the second person. I'm not saying that it can't work, but somehow it's feeling more like guided meditation than mythology for me. YMMV Smiley
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« Reply #17: November 11, 2009, 11:45:23 pm »

I feel like I want to read the story that they read; and then to arrive at the messages being presented, as a result of my own understanding. I want the context that leads me to believe the lessons on my own terms, rather than simply accepting them.

I'm also having a lot of trouble with mythic discource in the second person. I'm not saying that it can't work, but somehow it's feeling more like guided meditation than mythology for me. YMMV Smiley

What he said.

I was having trouble expressing what it was to myself, but the first paragraph above does a pretty good job of it.
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« Reply #18: November 12, 2009, 12:10:28 am »

What he said.

I was having trouble expressing what it was to myself, but the first paragraph above does a pretty good job of it.
<nod> Likewise.

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« Reply #19: November 12, 2009, 01:22:33 am »

<nod> Likewise.

Works for me too.
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« Reply #20: November 12, 2009, 12:13:03 pm »

I'm liking it all (although I haven't had time to both read and give considered feedback this week). The common theme I'm still noting in my response to each piece is that I feel like I'm reading somebody's interpretation of a story/response to a story that they have read, but that I haven't.

I feel like I want to read the story that they read; and then to arrive at the messages being presented, as a result of my own understanding. I want the context that leads me to believe the lessons on my own terms, rather than simply accepting them.

I'm also having a lot of trouble with mythic discource in the second person. I'm not saying that it can't work, but somehow it's feeling more like guided meditation than mythology for me. YMMV Smiley

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?

I'm running into the problem that this *feels* right, and a lot of feedback saying it doesn't feel right to you, so I'm wondering if it's terminology that's the problem or a basic problem with the system itself.
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« Reply #21: November 12, 2009, 12:14:33 pm »

I'm liking it all (although I haven't had time to both read and give considered feedback this week). The common theme I'm still noting in my response to each piece is that I feel like I'm reading somebody's interpretation of a story/response to a story that they have read, but that I haven't.

I'll give a big ol' "ditto" to this, for now.  I'm reading over some of the stuff you wrote on flamekeeping.org and I have a few more thoughts that I'll try to articulate when I get home from work.  Unless I decide to just collapse (still recovering from flu of doom).   Tongue
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Fagan_the_Pagan
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« Reply #22: November 12, 2009, 01:34:36 pm »

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?

I'm running into the problem that this *feels* right, and a lot of feedback saying it doesn't feel right to you, so I'm wondering if it's terminology that's the problem or a basic problem with the system itself.
I think that's a big part of it.  I personally don't think that what you have given us is bad, but so far it's not fulfilling the expectations of "myth."  It might fare better labeled otherwise.
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« Reply #23: November 12, 2009, 02:15:10 pm »

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?

I'm running into the problem that this *feels* right, and a lot of feedback saying it doesn't feel right to you, so I'm wondering if it's terminology that's the problem or a basic problem with the system itself.

I'm with Fagan.  It doesn't fit my definition of "myth".  But if it feels right...run with it!  It's good stuff.  If you hadn't been using the terminology of "myth", then my expectations would have been different.

I was reading the old stuff on your website so I had a better idea of what Flamekeeping was actually about, which would give me a better understanding of what you were writing about now.  I'm glad I had an excuse to finally satisfy my curiosity about Flamekeeping.  Pretty inspirational stuff Smiley
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« Reply #24: November 12, 2009, 10:07:51 pm »

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?
Could be - the word "myth" leads me to expect something more story-like.

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« Reply #25: November 12, 2009, 10:22:06 pm »

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?

I'm running into the problem that this *feels* right, and a lot of feedback saying it doesn't feel right to you, so I'm wondering if it's terminology that's the problem or a basic problem with the system itself.

I think it is also to do with my own personal preferences as a reader. I like myths because I do a little legwork as the reader. I get a meaning out of the story and decide on what that means for me. Here, both of these things are put up on the table very clearly without any work on my part. That's not a bad thing, it's just not my own personal preference. That said, I still get to enjoy the fact that they are beautifully written for what they are, even if that's not my normal style. I also still get to appreciate and consider the message. So, it's really a stylistic choice on your part.
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« Reply #26: November 12, 2009, 11:28:40 pm »

Is the problem that I'm using the word myth here?  If I called it something else, do you think it's an effective way to frame essays and discussion?

I'm running into the problem that this *feels* right, and a lot of feedback saying it doesn't feel right to you, so I'm wondering if it's terminology that's the problem or a basic problem with the system itself.

I think that the word myth is a large part of my issue. The messages/lessons of themselves are fine and the writing is clear and concise, but they're not what I think of as 'myth'. That said, I think there is great value is persevering to write myths that communicate these messages in addition to these pieces. I think that the purposes are different and that having actual myths as well as lessons, meditations, visualisations, etc. is important to the long-term continuance of your religion.
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« Reply #27: November 13, 2009, 05:32:14 am »

I think that the word myth is a large part of my issue. The messages/lessons of themselves are fine and the writing is clear and concise, but they're not what I think of as 'myth'. That said, I think there is great value is persevering to write myths that communicate these messages in addition to these pieces. I think that the purposes are different and that having actual myths as well as lessons, meditations, visualisations, etc. is important to the long-term continuance of your religion.

::points::  What he said; that pretty much sums up my position as well.
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« Reply #28: November 13, 2009, 05:41:16 am »

And we touched that core of divinity inside ourselves and found the entire universe, waiting there, hiding in our hearts.

Finding the universe is important here, what does it mean to find the universe within oneself, what is that like?
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« Reply #29: December 03, 2009, 10:17:04 pm »


More stuff.

**

Contacting the Divine
We came to the Divine with a thousand beliefs, a thousand ways of interpreting what we saw.  And we applied them all, and tried to force what we saw into those boxes, and believed we understood the truth.

But truth only came when we stopped trying to force our understanding on the universe, but let it be its own understanding.  For we can claim we understand, but it is only in realizing that we don't do we even begin to grasp the truth.

The universe is immense and beyond easy comprehension.  But when you simply accept that it is, you can touch the Divine.  And then the Divine reached back.

We weren't reaching out to an uncaring god that does not want us, but to a Divine that longs for us as much as we long for it.  And that is the true magic of FlameKeeping.  The Universe loves.

Story:
You always believed in something.  And so you sought all the names, all the faces that humanity has used to try and contact the Divine, seeking the one that was right above all else.

But every face was both true and missing something.  Every name had a god behind it, even the ones that seemed contradictory.  A thousand names, a thousand gods, and each of them pointing to something beyond even them.

It was when you realize that they are all true that you began to find faith.  When you realize that the Universe loves us, and created a hundred thousand gods to try and communicate with us.  It is not a question of which face, which god you find.  It is a question of all of them being true, and seeking out which one you can love.

Discussion:
Throughout human history, there has been a search for meaning and the Divine.  We have looked in every direction, in every place.  And everywhere we looked, we found bits and pieces.  Every time we reached, the Divine tried to reach back, and another god, another way of contacting the Divine was created.

Many religions think what matters is the way the Divine is approached, or the Name used.  FlameKeeping is different – we believe that the name and approach are irrelevant.  What matters is the mindset.  For the Divine is everything, whether we believe in it or not.  Whether we care or not.  What is, is.  What matters is how we approach it and how we live in a way that enriches the universe we live in.

It's easy to look for gods.  Easy to look, to find and lose again, and to spend all our time chasing faith.  But as important as faith is – and it is important to people, or we wouldn't seek it – it often isn't what we're actually looking for, and finding it doesn't give us the answers we're seeking.

Faith isn't the final stop.  It's the beginning.  It's something that's chased after even as we lose it, and if we pin all our hopes on faith, we're doomed to disappointment.

That's not to say faith can't happen, and that we can't have contact with gods and the Divine.  We absolutely can.  But it is fleeting contact, found more when it does not happen then when it does.  When we expect it, when we think it must be the right way, we doom ourselves to disappointment.

If you want to see proof of the Divine, look at a flower.  A child.  Your beloved.  Do you not see the spark of divinity there?  It is not in the world-shaking feeling of faith that you find the Divine, though it is there too.  It is in the small things that show more layers the more you look at them.  It is knowing that there is no way to know everything, and the more you look, the more there is to find.

Faith and certainty are something we desire, but simply because we desire it doesn't mean the universe will provide.  But there are ways to find it in ourselves, regardless of what happens outside us.
Questions:

Why is faith unnecessary?  How hard is it to live that way?  How much do you chase after faith and certainty?

How does pantheism make faith irrelevant?  If the Divine is inside all things, where you do look for it?  What does it mean to you?

If the answer is inside of you, what changes?  Why and how?
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