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Author Topic: Is your Earth based faith limited to Earth?  (Read 11260 times)
Rowanfox
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« Topic Start: November 09, 2009, 03:45:21 pm »

this is a sort of off shoot of the thread about whether you practice ritual per the calendar or the local seasons.

In light of the recent tourist in space stories, how long will it be before we have pagans in space? (That's pagans, not pigs..... for you that recall the Muppets....)

How would your religion be practiced in the vacuum of space, or say, on the moon or Mars etc? Do you think there will be xxxxxxx-ians practicing off world, and how will it look different than what is on world today?

Teri



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« Reply #1: November 09, 2009, 03:50:36 pm »

this is a sort of off shoot of the thread about whether you practice ritual per the calendar or the local seasons.

In light of the recent tourist in space stories, how long will it be before we have pagans in space? (That's pagans, not pigs..... for you that recall the Muppets....)

How would your religion be practiced in the vacuum of space, or say, on the moon or Mars etc? Do you think there will be xxxxxxx-ians practicing off world, and how will it look different than what is on world today?

Teri





I don't think FlameKeeping would change on a different world - and as far as how long until we're in space?  Well ... *I* would love to be an astronaut .... Cheesy

If the religion takes off, I see no reason why we wouldn't end up in space.  I'd be a little surprised if we didn't - it seems a logical place for us to end up.
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« Reply #2: November 09, 2009, 04:59:25 pm »

this is a sort of off shoot of the thread about whether you practice ritual per the calendar or the local seasons.

In light of the recent tourist in space stories, how long will it be before we have pagans in space? (That's pagans, not pigs..... for you that recall the Muppets....)

How would your religion be practiced in the vacuum of space, or say, on the moon or Mars etc? Do you think there will be xxxxxxx-ians practicing off world, and how will it look different than what is on world today?

Teri


Well, humans are very adaptable, so I can't see any reason why our religions wouldn't too.  And since there are several pagan religions that are not nature based I think they would have even less trouble adapting.  As for the nature ones, I don't see it being any dif. then if I was to move from the United States to New Zealand.  I would change my routines to match my surroundings, assuming my beliefs were based on nature.

It's an interesting thought, kinda funny you brought it up cause I've been thinking about that for several months now.  I agree with Shad, I find the thought of traveling to different planets absolutely fascinating.  I do in a small sense follow the seasons, but they aren't a huge part of my beliefs, so it wouldn't be so hard to adapt my practices. At least that is what I'm thinking.

*dreaming of being a space cowboy.*  Cool
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« Reply #3: November 09, 2009, 05:21:14 pm »

this is a sort of off shoot of the thread about whether you practice ritual per the calendar or the local seasons.

In light of the recent tourist in space stories, how long will it be before we have pagans in space? (That's pagans, not pigs..... for you that recall the Muppets....)

How would your religion be practiced in the vacuum of space, or say, on the moon or Mars etc? Do you think there will be xxxxxxx-ians practicing off world, and how will it look different than what is on world today?

Teri

Personally, if invited to go to space I would decline. If forced to go to space... I would probably try to kill people to get the hell away from the impending spaceflight. I'm terrified of the thought of space travel.

My faith involves the Earth, the Moon, the Sun and the other planets - but is centered around my feet being firmly planted on Terra Firma. Sometimes star-gazing bothers me on a deep inner level. There's just too much space out there. A lot of people, my husband included, are excited about the prospect of colonizing other planets, and if it happens in our lifetimes, he's going alone.
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« Reply #4: November 09, 2009, 05:36:56 pm »

To answer my own question, I personally would have a great problem with practicing in space for any length of time. My HP reminded me that the sacred space in circle is not "on Earth" anyway so, duh, why would I have a problem, but I am a little more elemental than that.

My understanding of the elements, and how they play a part in the craft, is based on elements as part of the Earth. so air is not canned oxygen, but the wind; Water is the surging ocean, or riushing river, not  that in the recirculating system. And while I can visualize the elements from memory, how would my off spring or their off spring do so, if all they knew was off world?

Not that I am likely to have to make any choice about the subject in my lifetime, but interesting to ponder all the same.
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« Reply #5: November 09, 2009, 06:28:24 pm »

this is a sort of off shoot of the thread about whether you practice ritual per the calendar or the local seasons.

In light of the recent tourist in space stories, how long will it be before we have pagans in space? (That's pagans, not pigs..... for you that recall the Muppets....)

Pagans.  In.  Spaaaaaaaace!  LOL.  I love the Muppets.

I've actually thought about this.  At first I didn't think there was any way it could work.  The Kemetic calendar is based on the movement of the stars in a celestial vault that is only experienced right here on Earth.  No other planet would have the same 365 day year.  I was ruminating on this for awhile before I realized that a lot of Kemetics don't celebrate the holidays according to the traditional calendar (see Devo's thread on the Kemetic SIG.  Many of us have adapted the calendar based on how they experience the seasons in their own geographic location.  The Mysteries of Wesir is a planting festival, but for me, in Colorado, it occurs in winter.  For some Kemetics, that simply isn't acceptable and they move the celebration to some time in the spring. 

Then there is the fact that the first Kemetic season of Akhet was the season of inundation.  We don't experience anything like the inundation of the Nile over here in Colorado.  In fact the Nile doesn't even go through cycles of inundation since the building of the Aswan Dam.  That doesn't mean that we can't see that time of year as a time of spiritual abundance and renewal.  LapisLynx had a really good take on this if you look at the thread I referred to above. 

The bottom line is that people still experience relationships with the Netjeru despite the change in landscape, and I think that experience could probably translate onto another planet.  As for the problem with the days in the calendar, well, I think Djehuty could find a way to sort it out.   Wink

BTW:  This is the coolest program in the worlds: http://www.stellarium.org/  If you want to find out ahead of time what the Kemetic constellations would look like on another planet (you know, before you make your decision whether to move), you can actually figure it out right now. 

Hope I'm making sense.  Still recovering from the squid flu of doom. 
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« Reply #6: November 09, 2009, 07:26:51 pm »

To answer my own question, I personally would have a great problem with practicing in space for any length of time. My HP reminded me that the sacred space in circle is not "on Earth" anyway so, duh, why would I have a problem, but I am a little more elemental than that.

My understanding of the elements, and how they play a part in the craft, is based on elements as part of the Earth. so air is not canned oxygen, but the wind; Water is the surging ocean, or riushing river, not  that in the recirculating system. And while I can visualize the elements from memory, how would my off spring or their off spring do so, if all they knew was off world?

Huh.. Interesting  Smiley   My first reaction was.. no, I couldn't, I've become really attuned to the earth and her cycles (I'd've been ok in my pre-pagan days i think). However, your comment on circle gave me the answer. I view a sacred circle as representing all that is, granted at this point I'm not using it often. And the elements aren't something we can get away from (think the 3 states of matter, 4 with plasma - wouldn't be the same, but the next generations would get the idea  Grin ). I guess I'd prolly become more wiccan in my rituals, though.

On  cycles, there are so many, the life/death/birth mysteries wouldn't go anywhere. Nor would women's mysteries. I'm sure there are a lot more I'm forgetting. For me, the most important aspect is that I don't think Hecate would have any problem with space! And I view divinity as all pervading, so I wouldn't be getting away from the divine. Though I would have one heck of a shrine to Gaia!! Or the Earth in some other aspect  Cheesy
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« Reply #7: November 09, 2009, 07:39:03 pm »

On  cycles, there are so many, the life/death/birth mysteries wouldn't go anywhere.

What if they did?  What if death becomes optional?

I am not sure if I buy into what some of my transhumanist friends posit...that eventually, technology will advance to the point where we can all choose when and if we want to die.  I have friends (very educated, down-to-earth friends) who honestly believe that they will some day have the option of having their minds uploaded somewhere and having their individual, personal consciousness persist indefinitely. 

It's entirely possible that these folks have read too much science fiction, but what if they're right?  What if the cycles of death/rebirth no longer applied to us?

I hope this doesn't divert from the topic too much.   

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« Reply #8: November 09, 2009, 07:42:21 pm »

What if they did?  What if death becomes optional?

I am not sure if I buy into what some of my transhumanist friends posit...that eventually, technology will advance to the point where we can all choose when and if we want to die.  I have friends (very educated, down-to-earth friends) who honestly believe that they will some day have the option of having their minds uploaded somewhere and having their individual, personal consciousness persist indefinitely. 

It's entirely possible that these folks have read too much science fiction, but what if they're right?  What if the cycles of death/rebirth no longer applied to us?

I hope this doesn't divert from the topic too much.   



Are you also assuming the fertility/birth cycles would go away too?
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« Reply #9: November 09, 2009, 07:42:52 pm »

What if they did?  What if death becomes optional?

I am not sure if I buy into what some of my transhumanist friends posit...that eventually, technology will advance to the point where we can all choose when and if we want to die.  I have friends (very educated, down-to-earth friends) who honestly believe that they will some day have the option of having their minds uploaded somewhere and having their individual, personal consciousness persist indefinitely. 

It's entirely possible that these folks have read too much science fiction, but what if they're right?  What if the cycles of death/rebirth no longer applied to us?

I hope this doesn't divert from the topic too much.   



As much as I wish that was true for my loved ones, I do NOT wish it true for humanity.  I think it would be a detriment.

Yes, there are people who never stagnate, who always think, who would be a benefit to humanity for as long as they could keep thinking.  But .. 99%+ of us are not that.  Which is not to say that we're worthless or anything along those lines - we're anything but!  But .. that's an AWFUL lot of people that would be existing in some form.  That's a LOT of people that HAVE stagnated, that don't have any reason to push, to create, to *do* - they'd just *be*.

Survival wouldn't even be a motivation, because we'd be eternal in our computer brains ....

No, I really do believe that death IS an integral part of life.  Without it, we lose a lot of our impetus to do things, because we are eternal.  There's no reason to *do*.

I could be wrong, but right now, I don't see that as an advantage.  I see it as a loss.
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« Reply #10: November 09, 2009, 08:25:40 pm »

Are you also assuming the fertility/birth cycles would go away too?

Good question  Smiley

I wasn't initially assuming that birth/fertility would go away.  People might still choose to reproduce in some fashion.  It would depend on whether or not people in general felt the need to bring children into the world, given their new situation.  I think a big part of why we have kids is because we want to leave some legacy, or some sign that our life mattered.  I am not saying that's the ONLY reason people have kids, but I think it's more of a factor than most of us would like to admit.

But now we're getting into some sticky metaphysics.  There's no reason why new "people" couldn't be created. Sims  have babies, after all.  But would they be "people", without the physical, "natural" cycle of birth?  Would there be a "soul?"  Just looking at this from a Kemetic standpoint, if the Ka is a vital life force that comes from the ancestral group, how could that possibly be transmitted through...software?  It can't. 

So, Adare, I guess the answer to your question is yes.  I believe the cycles of birth and fertility would go away because we'd be disconnected from the life force that makes us human. 

 Cry

Yes, there are people who never stagnate, who always think, who would be a benefit to humanity for as long as they could keep thinking.  But .. 99%+ of us are not that.  Which is not to say that we're worthless or anything along those lines - we're anything but!  But .. that's an AWFUL lot of people that would be existing in some form.  That's a LOT of people that HAVE stagnated, that don't have any reason to push, to create, to *do* - they'd just *be*.

I agree.  I'd love to say "Well, I would never stagnate!", but come on.  I procrastinate on all kinds of important projects, unless I set myself some pretty hard and fast deadlines.  Imagine having eternity.  I'd have trouble motivating myself to do anything. 
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« Reply #11: November 09, 2009, 09:21:01 pm »


Psst: you attributed a quote to Adare that was my response.  If you're going to reply to two posts in one response, PLEASE make sure both quote tags are correct!  Thanks!
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« Reply #12: November 09, 2009, 09:28:59 pm »

Psst: you attributed a quote to Adare that was my response.  If you're going to reply to two posts in one response, PLEASE make sure both quote tags are correct!  Thanks!

Oops!  Sorry about that.
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« Reply #13: November 09, 2009, 09:29:27 pm »

Survival wouldn't even be a motivation, because we'd be eternal in our computer brains ....

I agree; the idea that people would retain their consciousness for eternity is very distasteful to me, if only because I've seen too many Star Trek episodes where disembodied consciousnesses (that's a mouthful) have gotten up to too much mischief.  Wink
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« Reply #14: November 09, 2009, 09:31:51 pm »

I agree; the idea that people would retain their consciousness for eternity is very distasteful to me, if only because I've seen too many Star Trek episodes where disembodied consciousnesses (that's a mouthful) have gotten up to too much mischief.  Wink

I really think there HAS to be SOME motivation for us to *go* and *do* - otherwise all you have is boredom as motivation, and we all know what kinds of things the human mind comes up with when bored .... EEP!
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