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Author Topic: Ethics in Reformed Celtic Recon  (Read 6278 times)
Gonner
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« Topic Start: November 26, 2009, 11:45:21 am »

Right, testing my understanding of reformed recon again. Given the accepted idea in reformed recon that even if a perfect codified religion existed and it could be recreated in the modern western world it would need to be changed raadically to suit its new environment. In reformed recon should people still look to say brehon laws or something similarly old for ethics?

My thinking, for my personal practice, is people shouldnt look to old books for a lot of reasons that they should look to the traditional culture for ethics and values *if they have that interest*. In Ireland for me thats Traditional Irish Culture which is not the high culture, in the US I would think the High Culture would be perfect because its broadly accepted.

I came to that conclusion because Ireland had no codifed pagan religion probably a result of us never developing a centralised government that facilitated its creation. Even up 'til the 17th century. The only half codified version that exists was created by the Christian church as a by product of their religions dogma. Our early paganism wasnt distinct separate part of the culture, it was a part of everyday life and thats why it survives at all. Cos of that it was the culture that provided ethics and virtues in pre christian Ireland as it did in christian Ireland and as it does today. Given that culture is an unbroken line from pre christian Ireland wouldnt it be best?

Outside Ireland wouldnt it be better to adopt ethics and values respected in your own traditional culture? After all anything you bring into the culture will have to reconcile itself with its new place anyway.
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« Reply #1: November 26, 2009, 09:37:10 pm »

In Ireland for me thats Traditional Irish Culture which is not the high culture, in the US I would think the High Culture would be perfect because its broadly accepted.

What's "High Culture"?
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« Reply #2: November 27, 2009, 05:14:29 am »

What's "High Culture"?

I know you probably wont go for the Wiki thing but its just to explain a term
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture
Quote
it is the culture of an elite such as the aristocracy or intelligentsia. It is contrasted with the low culture or popular culture of, variously, the less well-educated, barbarians, philistines or the masses

We all have high cultures, in some cases like in IReland its highlighted by history and an obvious state of cultural diglossia. The high culture because its the culture of the elite is the culture of social mobility so anyone looking to 'better themselves' adopts it to a degree. Its less obvious in the US where you have a lot of 'popular cultures' but the high culture is still there. Obama and the traits he has in common with other well off people or even former presidents is a good example.

Im not saying I think all recons should wear suits, be clean shaven and get into venture capital but since America is a capitalist country and aspiring towards wealth is natural the high culture is more applicable there then it would be here.

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« Reply #3: November 27, 2009, 03:16:42 pm »

We all have high cultures, in some cases like in IReland its highlighted by history and an obvious state of cultural diglossia.

I understand what you mean by high culture. Let me clarify my question: what is the Irish "High Culture" you're talking about that is different from traditional Irish culture (which I take to mean pre-Christian pagan worship and those myriad traditions)? Perhaps I am just dense today, but I'm not sure I'm following what you mentioned here. What in history highlights the high culture? Unless you're talking about the years of British rule?
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« Reply #4: November 27, 2009, 04:22:41 pm »

I understand what you mean by high culture. Let me clarify my question: what is the Irish "High Culture" you're talking about that is different from traditional Irish culture (which I take to mean pre-Christian pagan worship and those myriad traditions)? Perhaps I am just dense today, but I'm not sure I'm following what you mentioned here. What in history highlights the high culture? Unless you're talking about the years of British rule?

Man youre asking a question that would take a book to answer properly. Actually Id recommend Locating Folklore: Tradition, Modernity, Identity by Diarmuid O Giollain for a proper answer.

Traditional Irish Culture is the indigenous culture of the island. Say in pre history, the Indigenous culture would have been subaltern to the celtic cultures that ruled here by being a medium of social mobility. The low ranking deise tribes are an example of the indigenous separate from the celtic for a while before we blended together the greater indigenous adapting the best of the lesser number of celtic peopels and we became the Gael. Today we have our independance but our culture again is not a culture of social mobility, our language is a minority language and our culture contradicts capitalism. So to high culture in Ireland is a blend of those socially mobile cultures today like The French, the German and The American.

Traditional culture is just the native culture. If how it could be perceived to retain beliefs is an issue I recommend looking at the anthropological definitions for the social movement of 'Modernity' and the preceding 'Traditional' societies. Those are not science and technology and anti science and technology respectively they are just academic definitions of two popular if contrasting forms of societies in our world.
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« Reply #5: November 27, 2009, 08:04:43 pm »

Right, testing my understanding of reformed recon again. Given the accepted idea in reformed recon that even if a perfect codified religion existed and it could be recreated in the modern western world it would need to be changed raadically to suit its new environment. In reformed recon should people still look to say brehon laws or something similarly old for ethics?

  I don't think it could remain or be reconstructed exactly in it's original form simply because modern times are so different.   I don't see why the basic core should change much or the ethics envolved. 
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« Reply #6: November 27, 2009, 08:08:54 pm »

I know you probably wont go for the Wiki thing but its just to explain a term
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture
We all have high cultures, in some cases like in IReland its highlighted by history and an obvious state of cultural diglossia. The high culture because its the culture of the elite is the culture of social mobility so anyone looking to 'better themselves' adopts it to a degree. Its less obvious in the US where you have a lot of 'popular cultures' but the high culture is still there. Obama and the traits he has in common with other well off people or even former presidents is a good example.

Im not saying I think all recons should wear suits, be clean shaven and get into venture capital but since America is a capitalist country and aspiring towards wealth is natural the high culture is more applicable there then it would be here.


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« Reply #7: November 27, 2009, 08:47:31 pm »

I know you probably wont go for the Wiki thing but its just to explain a term
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_culture
We all have high cultures, in some cases like in IReland its highlighted by history and an obvious state of cultural diglossia. The high culture because its the culture of the elite is the culture of social mobility so anyone looking to 'better themselves' adopts it to a degree. Its less obvious in the US where you have a lot of 'popular cultures' but the high culture is still there. Obama and the traits he has in common with other well off people or even former presidents is a good example.

Im not saying I think all recons should wear suits, be clean shaven and get into venture capital but since America is a capitalist country and aspiring towards wealth is natural the high culture is more applicable there then it would be here.


   I understand what you are saying but I am having a problem imagining an earth/nature based religion coinciding with what some of our big businesses have become.
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« Reply #8: November 27, 2009, 11:22:37 pm »

   I understand what you are saying but I am having a problem imagining an earth/nature based religion coinciding with what some of our big businesses have become.

Many of us don't consider our paths to be "earth/nature based".  Does that make a difference to their compatibility with big business?
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« Reply #9: November 28, 2009, 06:45:37 am »

I understand what you are saying but I am having a problem imagining an earth/nature based religion coinciding with what some of our big businesses have become.

It's hard to imagine big businesses we have to day given that the predominant religion of the Western world (where most of them are) is Christianity which is very negative on wealth and mistreatment of people.  I suspect all this shows is the real "religion" of big business is "the worship of the rapid accumulation of money" -- I doubt things would be any different no matter what the religion of the area was so long as the "religion" of business was really money.
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« Reply #10: November 28, 2009, 05:59:27 pm »

It's hard to imagine big businesses we have to day given that the predominant religion of the Western world (where most of them are) is Christianity which is very negative on wealth and mistreatment of people.  I suspect all this shows is the real "religion" of big business is "the worship of the rapid accumulation of money" -- I doubt things would be any different no matter what the religion of the area was so long as the "religion" of business was really money.
  I would have to question if those responsible for the mistreatment of people and the distruction of the earth in order to attain wealth consider themselves following true christian ethics.   I am not saying that Christianity has changed to allow this.  You are probably right that some of the followers of any religion would have done the same.  I am just thinking idealistically
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« Reply #11: November 28, 2009, 06:02:57 pm »

I would have to question if those responsible for the mistreatment of people and the distruction of the earth in order to attain wealth consider themselves following true christian ethics.

Many in the US do. Some of the Fundamentalist sects claim that God rewards "good Christians" with wealth and the the destruction of the Earth does not matter. God gave the earth to Humans to use and it will all be wiped out and remade in a few years when Jesus comes back -- so the damage done doesn't matter.
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