The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
December 16, 2017, 01:39:13 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 16, 2017, 01:39:13 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: The Magic of Words  (Read 3637 times)
Fagan_the_Pagan
Master Member
****
Last Login:February 11, 2012, 04:39:54 am
United States United States

Religion: Ecclectic Bard
Posts: 301


Tá tine sna ceann orm

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: December 07, 2009, 10:29:43 am »

As an actor and a writer, this concept of the magic of words is very alluring.

I don't just mean magic involving words, but the possibility of magic through words alone.  What do people think about the potential for magically charging words?  Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?
Logged

"We're actors!  We're the opposite of people."--Tom Stoppard "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #1: December 07, 2009, 10:35:30 am »

As an actor and a writer, this concept of the magic of words is very alluring.

I don't just mean magic involving words, but the possibility of magic through words alone.  What do people think about the potential for magically charging words?  Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?

Well, there are days when I think stories ARE magic, in and of themselves - I mean, what else can teach, uplift, and create a new world all by itself?  They are magic.  If you read something, or hear something, it can forever change you.

How can they be anything BUT magic? Cheesy

And there's so many things that speech changes - it is what gives us the ability to learn without being directly shown something - it gives us a chance to experience things we never could, because there isn't enough time - it lets us build on the work of others instead of needing to start from scratch every time.  HOW we speak defines our world to us - the words we use and the concepts around them define all sorts of things.

If there is such a thing as magic, I don't think speech could be anything BUT.  And the fact that we use it every day doesn't change the magic, if you think about it ....
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
Devo
Master Member
****
Last Login:October 26, 2011, 09:58:01 pm
United States United States

Religion: Kemetic
Posts: 550


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2: December 07, 2009, 11:22:04 am »

As an actor and a writer, this concept of the magic of words is very alluring.

I don't just mean magic involving words, but the possibility of magic through words alone.  What do people think about the potential for magically charging words?  Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?
Well in Kemeticism, the main form of magic is called Heka, which is sometimes translated as 'sacred utterance.' To the ancient Egyptians, words were magic. Knowing the right words (or the right names) could make the sun stop in it's tracks, or obtain you whatever you needed. To them, words were the magic. While they did other movements and whatnot in their rituals, the main focus was the words.

-Devo
Logged

dA | FB | LJ
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:December 15, 2017, 11:32:20 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #3: December 07, 2009, 02:53:57 pm »

And there's so many things that speech changes - it is what gives us the ability to learn without being directly shown something - it gives us a chance to experience things we never could, because there isn't enough time - it lets us build on the work of others instead of needing to start from scratch every time.  HOW we speak defines our world to us - the words we use and the concepts around them define all sorts of things.

If there is such a thing as magic, I don't think speech could be anything BUT.  And the fact that we use it every day doesn't change the magic, if you think about it ....
THIS.

The idea of "magically charging words" seems odd to me, because they're already full of the magic of Words Mean Things.  Oh, I get the idea of deliberately speaking words with intent, but the key word there isn't so much "intent", because that's already part of what words are for, it's "deliberately".

And to write words is an even more powerful form of the same magic - how amazing, when you think about it, to be able to express an idea, and have some complete stranger many years later and many miles away understand it!

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
treekisser
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 30, 2011, 05:18:30 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Bajoran
Posts: 1200


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: December 07, 2009, 03:58:30 pm »



I agree with everyone so far in the thread, especially since most of what I do (spiritual, magical and otherwise) is very much verbal. Just want to add that something I'm very interested in, and which I think has a lot of unexplored potential, are systems of words (or symbols in general) which are used to reflect and affect reality.

Stories do that to some extent, though fairly passively. Something like a legal system, though, is a good example - you take a set of real-world facts, feed them into a paper world of rules, and it spits something back which affects this world. I imagine a computer program or other coded system works similarly.

To bring it back to your post, I guess I'd say that (subject to what Shadow said about words having an everyday magic to them) while words in ordinary life mightn't seem to have magical oomph, you can charge them by detaching them from ordinary contexts and putting them in a magical one. Say, create your own magical language, or give specific magical meanings to ordinary words, with the meanings building onto each other to create a personal magical system. Something like an Alphabet of Desire.
Logged

'Whatever such a mind sees is a flower, and whatever such a mind dreams of is the moon.' - Basho
EtuMalku
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:April 04, 2010, 01:51:15 pm
United States United States

Posts: 41

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: December 07, 2009, 05:18:55 pm »

As an actor and a writer, this concept of the magic of words is very alluring.

I don't just mean magic involving words, but the possibility of magic through words alone.  What do people think about the potential for magically charging words?  Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?
THE WORD

It has been called the Word in the Judeo-Christian Bible, Hindu Scriptures call it Naad and Shruti, Persian scriptures Sraosha, Kalma in Muslim scriptures, ‘the Sonorous Light' in Buddhism, Naam or Shabd by the Sikhs, in Patanjali Yoga Darshan, the God/dess Ishwara is a Being expressed by this original vibration (Pranav) and Madam Helen Blavatsky and the Theosophists call it ‘the Voice of Silence'. It is interesting to note the similarities between the above word ‘Pranav' in this case denoting the personification of the Primordial Vibration and the word ‘prana' which is the life force within us.

OM

Though the most famous and enduring name we know it as is probably by OM.
From Blavatsky's article entitled ‘AUM' in the Theosophy literature ‘Path' [April 1886 issue p.6, Vol. I], the article mentions the first sound as Aum and describes it as a Divine Resonance, a power that manifests itself into being. This self manifesting power? can be traced back to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) as the Primeval God Amon creates Himself from the black waters of Nun.

Heka, indeed High Vibrational Magick of Kemet. To know the frequency of a certain object is to have control of that object, this is the idea behind the knowing of the 'True' name of someone that is mentioned in Egyptian religion. The theory can be seen in effect as the opera singer shatters the wine glass.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 05:29:22 pm by EtuMalku, Reason: Additional commentary » Logged

Ati Me Pete Babka
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #6: December 08, 2009, 07:14:44 am »

« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 05:29:22 pm by EtuMalku, Reason: Additional commentary »
 

Just a quick reminder, EtuMalku...  If you're going to add content (as opposed to just fixing a typo or something minor like that) after more than 2-3 minutes, please make a new post rather than editing your existing one.  Our rules require this because after 2-3 minutes, people have already read your post and will not see the additions you're making.  (I know some forums don't like people posting twice in a row, but it's not a problem here.  We'd rather you did that, actually, because it ensures that people see what you're adding and that we're all having the same conversation.)

Thanks!
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
Finn
High Adept Member
******
*
Last Login:December 22, 2013, 02:30:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: An Seanchas Fior
TCN ID: Finn
Posts: 2754


The world is quiet here.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: December 08, 2009, 04:50:51 pm »

Well, there are days when I think stories ARE magic, in and of themselves - I mean, what else can teach, uplift, and create a new world all by itself?  They are magic.  If you read something, or hear something, it can forever change you.

How can they be anything BUT magic? Cheesy

I know not very many people care about the spiritual path I'm building, but... you basically hit the nail on the head as to why I started to make it.

Logged

Fight evil: read books.

My Spiritual Blog: An Seanchas Fior
My Personal Blog: An Seanchas Finn
Juni
Adept Member
*****
*
*
Last Login:May 18, 2015, 04:18:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Misticism
TCN ID: Juni
Posts: 2302


Strive to be happy.

Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: December 08, 2009, 04:53:37 pm »

I know not very many people care about the spiritual path I'm building, but... you basically hit the nail on the head as to why I started to make it.

I care! *hugs*
Logged


.: Eleven-Pm.org .:. updated 30 June :.

"I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax! 'Fer duck huntin." - Futurama
Juni
Adept Member
*****
*
*
Last Login:May 18, 2015, 04:18:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Misticism
TCN ID: Juni
Posts: 2302


Strive to be happy.

Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: December 08, 2009, 04:55:36 pm »


What Shad and Sunflower said, basically. I think speech and language are inherently magic, and that they have a great deal of power all by themselves.
Logged


.: Eleven-Pm.org .:. updated 30 June :.

"I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax! 'Fer duck huntin." - Futurama
EtuMalku
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:April 04, 2010, 01:51:15 pm
United States United States

Posts: 41

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: December 08, 2009, 06:31:09 pm »

Just a quick reminder, EtuMalku...  If you're going to add content (as opposed to just fixing a typo or something minor like that) after more than 2-3 minutes, please make a new post rather than editing your existing one.  Our rules require this because after 2-3 minutes, people have already read your post and will not see the additions you're making.  (I know some forums don't like people posting twice in a row, but it's not a problem here.  We'd rather you did that, actually, because it ensures that people see what you're adding and that we're all having the same conversation.)

Thanks!
And who should I quote . . . myself?
Logged

Ati Me Pete Babka
Juni
Adept Member
*****
*
*
Last Login:May 18, 2015, 04:18:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Misticism
TCN ID: Juni
Posts: 2302


Strive to be happy.

Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11: December 08, 2009, 06:32:25 pm »

And who should I quote . . . myself?

That's what most of us do. You can also reply to the original post you were replying to, too, if you feel silly quoting yourself.
Logged


.: Eleven-Pm.org .:. updated 30 June :.

"I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax! 'Fer duck huntin." - Futurama
Odjn
Master Member
****
Last Login:March 09, 2011, 09:12:20 am
United States United States

Religion: Supreme Skeptic
Posts: 323


A dragon has come...

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: December 08, 2009, 07:02:22 pm »

Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?

Well..this can be seemingly tough. Words are a means to express and convey, that much is certain. Words only have meaning because of what we (collectively speaking) have agreed them to have and thus our feelings, thoughts and such are transmitted via these vocalizations but words are often paired with intonations so coupled together they do have their own impact.

As for actual power..I say "..No". You cannot light a bonfire, for example, with a word, phrase or chant no matter how loud you screech or even the language. I am unsure it can be done at all with just concentrated thought but you can use words to explain to someone what materials to use in order to make that fire.

Of course one can develop themselves to the point as to not let words have such an effect on them yet, because we do use physical speech to communicate, words will still have some sort of an impact regardless.

I suppose the "magic" of a word is purely in the mind and not really inherent in and of itself.
Logged

Caedo
Apprentice
**
Last Login:February 12, 2011, 04:12:30 pm
United States United States

Religion: Animist
Posts: 37


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: December 08, 2009, 11:38:05 pm »

Can words have any power of their own?  Do we need to share in them for them to work?  Can speech itself be a form of magic, or is it inherently just a component?

I've read and written poems that somehow manage to convey emotions and images that aren't explicitly described by the words themselves.  Alliteration, onomatopoeia, and other types of sound sculpting techniques can convey all sorts of things.  It seems to me that word sounds/meanings could be arranged with intent kind of like a sigil, where the abstracted purpose is hidden in the words and sounds themselves rather than in an image, but since I don't really know all that much about sigils, I can only speculate.
Logged
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #14: December 09, 2009, 07:08:44 am »

And who should I quote . . . myself?

Yes.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Looking for words... « 1 2 »
Social Discussion Boards
cldfront 15 2468 Last post June 30, 2007, 08:49:54 am
by Mandi
Three words at a time « 1 2 ... 7 8 »
Humor and Quizzes
skullhappy 117 11013 Last post November 03, 2009, 12:59:28 pm
by Mea
Empty Words- a poem
Art, Poetry and Writing
Caomi_Brannon 3 709 Last post February 26, 2010, 10:06:45 pm
by WarHorse
Nine Words Women Use
Humor and Quizzes
LyricFox 3 631 Last post November 23, 2010, 08:17:30 am
by mandrina
Wielded Words by Wrynn
Art, Poetry and Writing
Wrynn 0 525 Last post July 03, 2011, 07:47:36 pm
by Wrynn
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.14 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.077 seconds with 51 queries.