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Author Topic: Deities labeled as Romano-Celtic  (Read 3590 times)
Gaia
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« Topic Start: December 20, 2009, 03:55:45 pm »

There are a lot of deities labeled as Romano-Celtic.  The questions that come to my mind when I hear this are: If it has Roman influence then would this still be considered CR?  Would this be more of a Roman belief system?  If I am concentrating on Irish, Scottish, Welsh, British, and Gallic pantheons should I pay attention to anything Romano-Celtic?

"Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism (CR) is a polytheistic, animistic, religious and cultural movement.  It is an effort to reconstruct, within a modern Celtic Cultural context, the aspects, of ancient Celtic religions that were lost or subsumed by Christianity." -  The CR FAQ: An Introduction to Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism, "So What is Celtic Reconstructionism (CR)?"  pg.17 first paragraph  (book version)

http://www.paganachd.com/faq/index.html

According to the FAQ it is the pre-Christian Celts to pay attention to.  Can anyone give me some more information so we can clear this up?
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« Reply #1: December 20, 2009, 05:08:49 pm »

According to the FAQ it is the pre-Christian Celts to pay attention to.  Can anyone give me some more information so we can clear this up?

See, here's what I think, YMMV, and of course I don't consider myself as a CR at all.

If someone intends to follow a kind of a 'real' and 'pure' thing, something the 'real' ancestors did or whatever, they forget some tiny little detail:
There is nothing totally homogeneous and straight-lined in history. Where would you put the starting point, where the end point?

People exchanged ideas and deities all the time. Religions, customs, cultures changed, developed and adapted.

From our place in time we can look back and cut out a certain period and call that the 'real' thing.
But its like with the Happy Ends in movies, isn't it? They're just happy ends, because the movie stops there.

See my little example. I like 'celtic', I live in an area with a gaulish-roman past.
My deities seem to be pre-celtic though. So *shrugs* what now?

If one wants to avoid everything christian in his/her path, if that is the main imperative of that path, then yes, you have to focus on the pre-christian things. (And imho get in trouble because that means to ignore everything written down by the monks, no?)
 
If the goal is to get connected to what one feels the right ancestry and culture, I think it's important to pay attention to all the parts in the history of that culture and how it dealt with the influences it came across. Be it roman or christian.

Clear as mud, I know Wink but that's what I think about it.
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« Reply #2: December 20, 2009, 09:10:33 pm »

See, here's what I think, YMMV, and of course I don't consider myself as a CR at all.

If someone intends to follow a kind of a 'real' and 'pure' thing, something the 'real' ancestors did or whatever, they forget some tiny little detail:
There is nothing totally homogeneous and straight-lined in history. Where would you put the starting point, where the end point?

People exchanged ideas and deities all the time. Religions, customs, cultures changed, developed and adapted.

From our place in time we can look back and cut out a certain period and call that the 'real' thing.
But its like with the Happy Ends in movies, isn't it? They're just happy ends, because the movie stops there.

See my little example. I like 'celtic', I live in an area with a gaulish-roman past.
My deities seem to be pre-celtic though. So *shrugs* what now?

If one wants to avoid everything christian in his/her path, if that is the main imperative of that path, then yes, you have to focus on the pre-christian things. (And imho get in trouble because that means to ignore everything written down by the monks, no?)
 
If the goal is to get connected to what one feels the right ancestry and culture, I think it's important to pay attention to all the parts in the history of that culture and how it dealt with the influences it came across. Be it roman or christian.

Clear as mud, I know Wink but that's what I think about it.

So you think it would still be valid if I call myself a CR even though the deities are called Romano-Celtic?
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« Reply #3: December 20, 2009, 10:49:22 pm »

So you think it would still be valid if I call myself a CR even though the deities are called Romano-Celtic?

Reconstructionism is, imo, very much a method. If the deities you find yourself interested in are Romano-Celtic, and your practices are grounded in Celtic practices and culture, then I'd say you're likely to still fall under the CR umbrella. If you honored those same deities with Roman practices and from a Roman cultural stand-point, I'd say the CR umbrella wouldn't cover you anymore. Ymmv, of course.
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« Reply #4: December 20, 2009, 11:13:58 pm »

General:

Thank you! I was a bit confused.  Tongue
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« Reply #5: December 21, 2009, 12:12:38 am »

Reconstructionism is, imo, very much a method. If the deities you find yourself interested in are Romano-Celtic, and your practices are grounded in Celtic practices and culture, then I'd say you're likely to still fall under the CR umbrella. If you honored those same deities with Roman practices and from a Roman cultural stand-point, I'd say the CR umbrella wouldn't cover you anymore. Ymmv, of course.

Also, IMO, what you call yourself is much less important than what you belief and/or how you live your life and honor your deities.

I guess what I'm saying -- besides seconding Juni's point that CR is a method more than it is a specific religion -- is that you need to figure out for yourself what elements are important to you.  To a large extent, what you call it is irrelevant.  Many of us have created our own names for our paths because we realize that, as Tana said upthread, there isn't anything homogeneous about the Celts or their religious beliefs, so we have to try to figure a lot of it out ourselves.

IOW, don't worry about it.  Go with your instincts and follow your callings.   Cheesy
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« Reply #6: December 21, 2009, 01:15:22 am »

To All:

Thank you for all your input.  This makes things much easier for me.
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« Reply #7: December 21, 2009, 01:47:31 am »

The questions that come to my mind when I hear this are: If it has Roman influence then would this still be considered CR?
I'm not a CR, I'm a Traditionalist, but IMO that's one thing I wouldn't understand. A lot of statues and what not that we have of Celtic deities came from areas of Roman occupation, because of State politics. However, it became a Celtic practice, in that area. Just like Ireland, the Irish didn't cease to be Gaels with the advent of Christianity, many pre-Christian Gaelic beliefs and traditions were absorbed into Celtic Christianity, and are still alive today. If one were to ignore these, then they'd be ignoring a huge part of our culture. Contemporary culture is something that is vital IMO, because we don't live in an Iron Age society, and we know about a lot of pre-Christian beliefs because of folk traditions. Considering there are huge amounts of information that we'll never know about the Celts, then that doesn't leave you with much, if the sources that have been influenced are discredited. 
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« Reply #8: December 22, 2009, 10:36:37 pm »

Reconstructionism is, imo, very much a method. If the deities you find yourself interested in are Romano-Celtic, and your practices are grounded in Celtic practices and culture, then I'd say you're likely to still fall under the CR umbrella. If you honored those same deities with Roman practices and from a Roman cultural stand-point, I'd say the CR umbrella wouldn't cover you anymore. Ymmv, of course.

You know what?  I think this is exactly what I needed to hear, erm... read.  I pondered this for a couple days and I am very happy with the conclusion I came to.  I don't think I would have come to that conclusion without this.  Than you.
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« Reply #9: December 22, 2009, 11:05:43 pm »

You know what?  I think this is exactly what I needed to hear, erm... read.  I pondered this for a couple days and I am very happy with the conclusion I came to.  I don't think I would have come to that conclusion without this.  Than you.

Glad I could help!
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