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Author Topic: What Is Magic(k)?  (Read 23825 times)
Star
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« Topic Start: May 14, 2007, 03:59:16 pm »

This is a topic that has been done at TC many times, but I don't think it's been done recently.  The subject has come up in another thread, and I thought it would be useful to spin this discussion off to its own thread.

How do you define "magic(k)"? 

As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?
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« Reply #1: May 14, 2007, 06:36:28 pm »


As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

For the sake of time restrictions, and coherence, I'll leave the main question for now, but, for me, prayer and magic are different things. Not necessarily, unconnected, but different.

Magic and prayer are separate things for me. Magic is something I do for myself (even if I call on my deities for aid). Prayer is when I call on the Gods to do something.

Sorry Randall, but you put it so succinctly Wink
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« Reply #2: May 14, 2007, 07:13:11 pm »

How do you define "magic(k)"? 

I think I define magick as focusing my own will through use of prayer, meditation, ritual, candles, incense, etc. to change or affect something that would not have been changed or affected without my influence.
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« Reply #3: May 14, 2007, 07:20:34 pm »

How do you define "magic(k)"? 

For me magick is focusing your will. I believe that my magick can only effect me. It is focusing my own power within me towards a purpose, but it only makes me see the path/have the strength to do the necessary mundanely in order to accomplish what the magick was for. I understand that this is different from most people's definition, but I thought I would contribute it for diversity Smiley .

As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

Prayer for me indicates a religious (related to a devine being) connection as opposed to magick which is a spiritual (one's own power) one. Prayer is asking the intervention/guidance of a devine power and magick is using ones own power. I do not pray, as I do not believe in any deities, however, I understand its place in worship.
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« Reply #4: May 14, 2007, 07:38:37 pm »

How do you define "magic(k)"? 

As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

I would define magic as something that is against the natural order, either performed by a person or at the behest of a person (such as by a god).  From this previous answer you may get that I think of magic and prayer as the same.  I don't see any difference between a Christian prayer or a Wiccan spell. 

I must admit however that while I can believe in magic, I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that anyone has ever performed real magic.  Not that I am against those that claim otherwise, but in this case for me seeing is believing.
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« Reply #5: May 14, 2007, 07:42:01 pm »

How do you define "magic(k)"? 


I define magic as using the universal energy (call it the String Symphony, Schrodinger's quantum wave, God or whatever) and shaping it for a specific result using my personal will.

Quote
As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

Randall did state it beautifully, and I agree. Paraphrase: magic I direct, prayer asks Deity to direct. Two different things, IMHO, even to the point of one being religious and one not.
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« Reply #6: May 14, 2007, 07:59:21 pm »

I must admit however that while I can believe in magic, I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that anyone has ever performed real magic.  Not that I am against those that claim otherwise, but in this case for me seeing is believing.

How do you define "real magic" vs just plain old magic? 
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« Reply #7: May 14, 2007, 08:03:39 pm »

How do you define "real magic" vs just plain old magic? 

That would be real magic vs. fake magic (aka stage magic). 
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« Reply #8: May 14, 2007, 08:48:22 pm »

That would be real magic vs. fake magic (aka stage magic). 

That helps to clarify...somewhat.  Smiley  I'm trying to understand where you're coming from on this one (as I very much believe in magic as a reality and have seen it as such).  What would you consider an example of real magic- something that if it happened, would make you say "That was magic"? 

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« Reply #9: May 14, 2007, 09:08:10 pm »

That helps to clarify...somewhat.  Smiley  I'm trying to understand where you're coming from on this one (as I very much believe in magic as a reality and have seen it as such).  What would you consider an example of real magic- something that if it happened, would make you say "That was magic"? 

My usual reply to such a question is, "When I see someone flying around or they throw lightning or a fireball at me, then I will believe."  I have 'witnessed' people who say they have seen the future or controlled the weather, but there was no indication that it actually happened.  The vague foretellings don't impress me.  They are either obvious (I could of come up with that without 'magic') or non-specific (gee, you were right I did meet someone, it only took 5 years for that fortune telling).  The weather control are just as funny.  It rained!  Just like the weatherman said it would, oh mighty one.

The reason I say I believe in magic is that I acknowledge there are things that can not be explained and magic seems the most apt answer.  However this would be more accurate if I say I believe in the supernatural.  I have never witnessed or heard from a credible witness any person actually perform magic.  I tend to believe that if someone was REALLY doing magic they would be keeping that secret since humans are unreliable animals and would probably turn on them.  If I could perform magic I wouldn't be broadcasting it.  Maybe the people on this forum (and others) are really performing magic, I've just never seen it and will remain skeptical until I do.
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« Reply #10: May 14, 2007, 09:56:56 pm »

How do you define "magic(k)"?

The art of causing change in accordance with will using methods not completely understood by science.

Quote
As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

To me prayer is a magical conversation, as opposed to, say, spellwork, which is magical action.  Prayer is communicating with the Sacred.
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« Reply #11: May 14, 2007, 11:52:33 pm »

My usual reply to such a question is, "When I see someone flying around or they throw lightning or a fireball at me, then I will believe."  I have 'witnessed' people who say they have seen the future or controlled the weather, but there was no indication that it actually happened. 

Gotcha!  I can't say I've flown (airplanes aside) and gods willing, I'd love the ability to throw lightening or fireballs at someone.  My idea of magic is a much more subtle notion of shifting and directing energies toward a goal rather than something more in line with the Hollywood version of magic.

Maybe the people on this forum (and others) are really performing magic, I've just never seen it and will remain skeptical until I do.

Skepticism is always healthy, but for me, it's a matter of faith in knowing that what I do magically can bring about actual change.  I don't need to see the results to believe it works.

Just for fun, let me put a spin on your seeing is believing comment...  Have you ever seen the wind?  Not the effects of what the wind does (trees swaying, dust swirling), but the wind itself?  If you cannot see it, how do you know it exists? Just some food for thought.
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« Reply #12: May 15, 2007, 12:18:32 am »

This is a topic that has been done at TC many times, but I don't think it's been done recently.  The subject has come up in another thread, and I thought it would be useful to spin this discussion off to its own thread.

How do you define "magic(k)"? 

As a side question, do you think it's at all related to prayer?  Are they similar?  The same thing?  Totally separate?  Sometimes connected?  Something else I've forgotten?

I don't practice, personally, but I think of it as directing one's energies (or will) towards changing the environment in order to reach a certain goal. I believe that "energy" (for lack of a better term, I have a hard time explaining it) is all around us and within us and that some choose to harness it and control what they can of it.

I don't believe magic is the same as prayer. Prayer is asking a deity to protect us or intervene on our behalf. It isn't the same as controlling the power around us ourselves.
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« Reply #13: May 15, 2007, 12:15:54 pm »

To me prayer is a magical conversation, as opposed to, say, spellwork, which is magical action.  Prayer is communicating with the Sacred.

So is magic in some way sacred to you?  Personally, I don't see it being any more sacred than any other skill (knitting, cooking, etc.).  <shrug>

Brina
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« Reply #14: May 15, 2007, 02:04:46 pm »

Gotcha!  I can't say I've flown (airplanes aside) and gods willing, I'd love the ability to throw lightening or fireballs at someone.  My idea of magic is a much more subtle notion of shifting and directing energies toward a goal rather than something more in line with the Hollywood version of magic.

I guess I've just read too many sci-fi/fantasy novels.  I want big bang for my buck.  Smiley

Quote
Skepticism is always healthy, but for me, it's a matter of faith in knowing that what I do magically can bring about actual change.  I don't need to see the results to believe it works.

Just for fun, let me put a spin on your seeing is believing comment...  Have you ever seen the wind?  Not the effects of what the wind does (trees swaying, dust swirling), but the wind itself?  If you cannot see it, how do you know it exists? Just some food for thought.

I came from atheism so skepticism is my natural state.  You have to allow some faith for any religion and so I have done so, but I won't go as far as blind faith.  Faith is belief without reason.  Blind faith in belief in spite of reason.  Since magic has nothing to do with my religion, it isn't a faith question for me, I need some reason for the belief.

I've seen the wind question a lot from Christians while I was an atheist.  Wind can be felt, measured, and seen by it's effect.  It is a well studied and understood phenomena.  Perhaps some day magic will fall into the same category and it will be accepted along with the wind.
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