questions about imbolc/ wheel of the year alternatives

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[Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)]

Thanks Star! Yes, I do mean that Witches have this perspective, not witches in general. Sorry if I keep failing to mention that that is what I mean.  

I think part of the problem is that this tendency to capitalize the word to mean 'your specific type of religious witchcraft' is new and many people do not acknowledge it as a legitimate convention.  The capital/lower case 'w' in wicca, while not always accepted, has had a longer time to establish itself.  There are many religious witches who do not feel the capital to be necessary, and many regular witches who do not feel that the capital is exclusive.

Perhaps you have a tradition name which would make your specific meaning clearer?  The convention you are trying to use/establish not being a widely accepted one just tends to cause confusion.

Absent

[yewberry]

Brina, thanks for that but I did mean to write Witches.

I know you did.  It wouldn't have needed fixing otherwise.  My post to Star explains why.

Brina

[Dark Midnight]

I think part of the problem is that this tendency to capitalize the word to mean 'your specific type of religious witchcraft' is new and many people do not acknowledge it as a legitimate convention.  The capital/lower case 'w' in wicca, while not always accepted, has had a longer time to establish itself.  There are many religious witches who do not feel the capital to be necessary, and many regular witches who do not feel that the capital is exclusive.

Perhaps you have a tradition name which would make your specific meaning clearer?  The convention you are trying to use/establish not being a widely accepted one just tends to cause confusion.

The problem is that there is no tradition name for it-it is just classed as Witchcraft (with a capital W to denote the religious aspect of it) as opposed to witchcraft ( with a lower case w to indicate non-religious practice). We cannot be classed as BTW (as that is Wicca), even though Witchcraft and witchcraft have been in the UK for hundreds of years, so the usual terms are Witch and witch. There are no other terms that I can use, apart from saying Religious Witch every time-this is what I will do in future to make sure that there is no further confusion on my meaning.

[yewberry]

We cannot be classed as BTW (as that is Wicca), even though Witchcraft and witchcraft have been in the UK for hundreds of years

Folk beliefs that could loosely be described as "witchcraft"?  Sure.  Upper case Witchcraft of the sort that celebrates Imbolc in the way you describe?  I'll need to see some proof, I'm afraid.  I've never met anyone who claimed to be a "Traditional Witch" who could trace their lineage back much before Gardner.

There are no other terms that I can use, apart from saying Religious Witch every time-this is what I will do in future to make sure that there is no further confusion on my meaning.

Except that there are plenty of religious witches that don't share your feelings about Imbolc.  Some don't even include it in their calendar of holy days.  I don't have any issues with what you celebrate, just your generalizations about what you think others do or believe.

Brina

[Dark Midnight]

Folk beliefs that could loosely be described as "witchcraft"?  Sure.  Upper case Witchcraft of the sort that celebrates Imbolc in the way you describe?  I'll need to see some proof, I'm afraid.  I've never met anyone who claimed to be a "Traditional Witch" who could trace their lineage back much before Gardner.

I was taught in a coven by a HP that could trace Witchcraft in his family back to the 1500's, so I was taught a Tradition of Witchcraft (W denoting religion). I don't think that he'd really appreciate me calling his family's beliefs as a 'folk belief' though, do you?

Except that there are plenty of religious witches that don't share you feelings about Imbolc.  Some don't even include it in their calendar of holy days.  I don't have any issues with what you celebrate, just your generalizations about what you think others do or believe.

All the Religious Witches that I have ever met do celebrate in this way-however I don't claim to have met them all. If there are any reading this who don't celebrate Imbolc, I apologise for offending you in presuming to dictate/assume your beliefs and/or practices.

[yewberry]

I was taught in a coven by a HP that could trace Witchcraft in his family back to the 1500's, so I was taught a Tradition of Witchcraft (W denoting religion). I don't think that he'd really appreciate me calling his family's beliefs as a 'folk belief' though, do you?

I respect your right to believe whatever you like.  I also think it's unreasonable for you to expect me to believe in the literal history of something about which you can offer no convincing historical proof.

And I wasn't calling your religion folk belief.  I was calling lower-case witchcraft (or things that look a bit like it) folk belief-based.  This type of witchcraft (or what is/was popularly referred to as witchcraft) is as old as the hills.

All the Religious Witches that I have ever met do celebrate in this way-however I don't claim to have met them all. If there are any reading this who don't celebrate Imbolc, I apologise for offending you in presuming to dictate/assume your beliefs and/or practices.

And I thank you and appreciate the effort.

Brina

[Jenett]

I've been thinking about the upcoming holiday of Imbolc. I'm not really centered on goddesses or gods in general, and I have no relationship with Brigid, so I don't think I'd celebrate Imbolc in that sense. However, I do celebrate the equinoxes, solstices, etc. Is Imbolc one of the cross quarters? Also, if there's anyone out there who's in the same boat, how do you celebrate Imbolc (and what do you call it)? I'd feel like an idiot using an idea for a ceremony or whatever that was symbolic of Brigid in some way when I don't even worship her. What is the "message" of Imbolc to you (as in, why do you celebrate it)? What are some good ways to celebrate it?

I sometimes refer to Imbolc (living in Minnesota as I do), as "The faint glimmerings of hope that sometime it might stop being winter. Eventually. Maybe."

I have a lot of respect for Brigid, but for varying reasons, do not feel comfortable priestessing a ritual in which she's the primary deity. (Not because it's dire, but becaue every ritual I've been at, with one sort-of exception, that focused on Her, I've gotten a very clear sense of "You are So Not Mine, and that's just fine, not everyone can be, but let's just be civil and wander off in opposite directions, okay?" Not antipathy, not neglect, just ... so not the right fit.)

My trad has done several rituals around the Norns for Imbolc in various years. This year, I'm contemplating the Moirae, who are a better fit for the direction of the coven in general. (This is helped by the fact I actually spin, so doing appropriate tokens, ritual items, etc. is relatively easy.)

[Darkhawk]

Except that there are plenty of religious witches that don't share your feelings about Imbolc.  Some don't even include it in their calendar of holy days.  I don't have any issues with what you celebrate, just your generalizations about what you think others do or believe.

My teacher's attitude towards the Wheel-Year holidays, as I recall it, was something like, "Well, I don't turn down an excuse to have a party, but it's not part of the tradition as I understand it.  I know a lot of people do things for them, so if that's part of your practice, go for it!"

[yewberry]

I sometimes refer to Imbolc (living in Minnesota as I do), as "The faint glimmerings of hope that sometime it might stop being winter. Eventually. Maybe."

<nods>  Here in the Northwet, I think of it as Yule Part II.  It's not a big part of my beliefs, but I do always note it, mostly with relief that the end is in sight.

Brina

[yewberry]

My teacher's attitude towards the Wheel-Year holidays, as I recall it, was something like, "Well, I don't turn down an excuse to have a party, but it's not part of the tradition as I understand it.  I know a lot of people do things for them, so if that's part of your practice, go for it!"

Oh, absolutely.  I'm a practical person in almost all aspects of my life, and my spirituality is no exception.  I (as respectfully and with as much information/context as possible) borrow liberally from other religions, not to mention the stuff I make up completely from scratch.

Brina

[Ellen M.]

I've been thinking about the upcoming holiday of Imbolc. I'm not really centered on goddesses or gods in general, and I have no relationship with Brigid, so I don't think I'd celebrate Imbolc in that sense. However, I do celebrate the equinoxes, solstices, etc. Is Imbolc one of the cross quarters? Also, if there's anyone out there who's in the same boat, how do you celebrate Imbolc (and what do you call it)? I'd feel like an idiot using an idea for a ceremony or whatever that was symbolic of Brigid in some way when I don't even worship her. What is the "message" of Imbolc to you (as in, why do you celebrate it)? What are some good ways to celebrate it?

Also, I know that certainly not everyone uses the wheel of the year, but many people seem to celebrate holidays at the same times. So what calendar do you use? I mean, do you consider Samhain to be the new year, etc.

Thanks! I know this is a little scatterbrained, as usual , but i appreciate the replies!

Good questions! I've been considering this myself. On the other Imbolc thread, I expressed that I felt uncomfortable approaching Brighid because I've only got a passing interested in the Celtic deities and it felt to me almost disrespectful to just pop by once a year. Then again, Matrinka made the excellent point that there are plenty of relatives I only get to see once a year, and I do have a Scottish heritage if nothing else. I'm still deciding what's going to happen.

I'll be back at school for Imbolc, which is a good six hours away from my nice Southern home. It's not quite New England, but it is cold. I know my Pagan group celebrates the sabbats, but I've been working to turn the group towards something less generic Wiccish (since the actual Wiccans in our group are few and far between). No idea what we're going to do then.

I don't consider Samhain to be the new year. If anything, Yule would be my new year, but the Wheel of the Year is definitely going through a revision process in my head. (I blame TC - until I started reading as many threads as I have, it never occurred to me that scrapping the Wheel of the Year festival cycle made sense for me. ) If I stick with the Wheel of the Year, I see it as a wheel. No beginning or end. And having Halloween as a New Year just... doesn't sit well for me. For a lot of reasons.

[SilentEcho]

Good questions! I've been considering this myself.

I don't consider Samhain to be the new year. If anything, Yule would be my new year, but the Wheel of the Year is definitely going through a revision process in my head. (I blame TC - until I started reading as many threads as I have, it never occurred to me that scrapping the Wheel of the Year festival cycle made sense for me. ) If I stick with the Wheel of the Year, I see it as a wheel. No beginning or end.

These are points I consider as I re-define what the Wheel of the Year means to me.  In reshaping my spirituality, I've spent the last couple years paying attention to my local seasons, and how some of the traditional meanings just don't fit the weather timing, and how(if at all) I would acknowledge the cross-quarters.

I sometimes refer to Imbolc (living in Minnesota as I do), as "The faint glimmerings of hope that sometime it might stop being winter. Eventually. Maybe." 

   Living in Michigan, I know exactly where you're coming from!  Some of the things I do for Imbolc is express gratitude for the slowly returning light, lighting candles, spending the day watching the world around me, for signs that indeed a few of the hardier buds are beginning to swell-as the only thing blooming under the snow is a layer of ice that will constitute the 5th season(short and not so sweet) that we refer to as mud season. 

If I add reverence to specific dieties at a later date, I would most likely follow traditions as far as creating ritual, altar set-up, and offerings.  But I'm not at that point yet.

[UlsterYank]

And I maintain that it's still a Wiccan (or neo-Wiccan) perspective that informs Upper Case Witches of the sort Sharon describes.  I understand the distinction between witches and Witches, but specificity when making claims like this is always a good idea.  Especially given that not all religious Witches follow the Wheel or anything like it.

Brina

That's a good distinction to make, however "Wicca" was a term that wasn't coined or "hijacked" until the 70's based on Gardner's reference to adherents of the Witchcraft he was referring to as being "of the Wica". One still becomes a "Witch" when initiated into Gardnerian or Alexandrian Witchcraft, or "Wicca." Even though it's a good distinction to make for public references considering the various forms of witchcraft around, it technically wouldn't be incorrect to refer to them as such considering there are still many Gardnerian&Alexandrian Wiccans that don't use the terms "Wicca" and "Wiccan."   

[Garnet]

I sometimes refer to Imbolc (living in Minnesota as I do), as "The faint glimmerings of hope that sometime it might stop being winter. Eventually. Maybe."

*grins* Winter doesn't last *quite* as long in Chicago, but I've definitely shifted my understanding of the holiday from "beginning of spring" to "the days are longer, and yay Brighid!"

[Garnet]

I'd feel like an idiot using an idea for a ceremony or whatever that was symbolic of Brigid in some way when I don't even worship her.

The first year my friends and I celebrated, we celebrated Candlemas instead of Imbolc, did candle magic, and honored "maiden" goddesses. (Candlemas is actually a name for a Catholic holiday around the same time, but I've seen it used in Wiccan sources.) Since then, I've celebrated Imbolc and honored Brighid.

Also, I know that certainly not everyone uses the wheel of the year, but many people seem to celebrate holidays at the same times. So what calendar do you use? I mean, do you consider Samhain to be the new year, etc. 

The wheel of the year is one of the calendars I use. I also follow the calendar of the Greco-Egyptian group Neos Alexandria, and the Thelemic calendar. Plus some personal anniversaries and such. So I have a *lot* of New Years. New Year for the Wheel is Samhain, Thelemic New Year is March 20th, generally the Spring Equinox, Neos Alexandria's New Year is Aug. 5 this year (heliacal rising of Sirius over Alexandria), and secular New Year is also important to me. Yule and Imbolc also feel New Years-ish to me, although I don't celebrate them as such.

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