The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
June 21, 2021, 02:26:01 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 21, 2021, 02:26:01 am

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Foreign Language Use During Ritual?  (Read 7927 times)
Pythuna
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 24, 2011, 12:59:17 pm
United States United States

Religion: Panentheism
Posts: 78


Wherever you go, there you are.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: January 11, 2010, 03:29:56 am »

Even though I don't live in Hawai'i, I'm learning the language for my spiritual practices.  I reason that by using a non-native, non-fluent language, I have to focus and concentrate more on my words and thoughts and thereby imbue them with more energy.  Also, because I work alot within the Polynesian pantheon, it just makes sense and shows respect to Madame Pele.  Hawai'ian is such a beautiful language and seems very mystical in itself, as words have multiple meanings as well as meanings within meanings.

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

Me ka pono~
Pythuna
Logged

“The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.”
-- Albert Einstein

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Juni
Adept Member
*****
*
*
Last Login:February 05, 2021, 09:36:51 pm
United States United States

Religion: Misticism
TCN ID: Juni
Posts: 2302


Strive to be happy.

Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1: January 11, 2010, 10:47:57 am »

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

Sometimes. Back when I was a Celtic-only polytheist, I was using Irish words and phrases in my prayers (I didn't do a lot of ritual, really). I don't remember it being more effective, really- I remember a feeling of "oh, that's sweet! keep up with that, kid," but that was about it. My study of the language has been put on hold temporarily, as I'm trying to strengthen my grasp of French first, and I'm no longer worried about learning the language for religious reasons.
Logged


.: Eleven-Pm.org .:. updated 30 June :.

"I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax! 'Fer duck huntin." - Futurama
Matrinka
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:January 03, 2016, 12:36:32 pm
United States United States

Religion: Irish-Celtic witch
Posts: 1034


Níl aon tíntéan, mar do thíntéín féín.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2: January 11, 2010, 11:23:09 am »


I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

Me ka pono~
Pythuna

I use Irish sometimes, and I'm working on a PIE ritual with my friend Droops for Beltaine this year, sorta.  :S  I haven't been focused on that as much as I should be.

Mostly, though, I do ritual in English. 
Logged

Tana
Staff
High Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:July 26, 2013, 08:37:48 am
Germany Germany

Religion: I'm my Lady's own
Posts: 3407


fence-riding, free-flowing, shamagic = crazy

Blog entries (4)

WWW
« Reply #3: January 11, 2010, 11:26:48 am »


Language is important to me. It's one of my main tools.
So I prefer the ones I master.

I'd feel terrible f.ex. stumbling around with bad Latin like in DJ Conways dragon magic book. *still shudders*.

I use English sometimes, if there is a spell I really like, but my English is quite decent meanwhile, so that's ok. Wink
Logged

'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation. That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance. You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long. All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.' Terry Pratchett 'Lords and Ladies'

(The FB button in my profile does not work, if you like go and add me: Tana Adaneth, the one with the Doom Kitty avatar Wink)

Only shallow people know themselves. (Oscar Wilde)
Selegna
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 26, 2012, 08:50:53 pm
Argentina Argentina

Religion: Eclectic, polytheist, follower of Loki, Brighid and Hera.
Posts: 474


Blog entries (0)

IceAngie
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4: January 11, 2010, 12:01:55 pm »

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

I use Spanish (my native language) most of the time, but just like Tana, I use English words sometimes, but it's more when I can't find the right Spanish words I want (or there isn't a Spanish word for what I want to say; it has happened). I find them effective not because of the language itself, but because of the meaning of the words.

And of course, "Hail!" when I'm greeting the Norse gods and goddesses.  Wink
Logged

Willowe
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:September 21, 2011, 01:30:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pagan
Posts: 47

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: January 11, 2010, 05:51:13 pm »

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

I've been interested in incorporating different languages into rituals, but as of right now I don't. Mostly it's because, like Tana said, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was stumbling over words all the time. Wink

If I ever did use a different language, I probably wouldn't learn it specifically for religious reasons; I'd want to learn a language that I'd have a good chance of using in other situations as well.
Logged
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6: January 12, 2010, 10:51:34 am »

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

I've translated one of my chants to Persephone into Spanish, mostly as an exercise, but also because having a language that's not my native tongue (even if I'm getting really good at it) helps me lose the meaning of the words, a bit.

I've considered taking up both Ancient Greek and Latin for my work with the Classical deities, but I've felt no divine prompting to do so. Luckily I'm really into languages and love to study and create them. Unluckily, I'm a very scattered, ADD person, and I can never stick with something for more than a few days at a time.

Taking two German classes did seem to help me grow closer to the Norse gods. Obviously there's a huge difference between modern German and Old Norse or whatever, but at least it was in the general area of where I was interested. Plus, now I basically use German pronunciation if I can't find the Norse. Even if it's not always correct, it makes me feel better to have a standard system for myself, rather than trying to work it out myself. (I'll never forget that I felt connected to the mighty fray-jah and that I thought it was funny that ma-jole-ner had a short handle. Smiley)
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Cent
Master Member
****
Last Login:May 01, 2011, 05:10:44 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Of the Earth
Posts: 367


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #7: January 12, 2010, 02:27:10 pm »

Even though I don't live in Hawai'i, I'm learning the language for my spiritual practices.  I reason that by using a non-native, non-fluent language, I have to focus and concentrate more on my words and thoughts and thereby imbue them with more energy.  Also, because I work alot within the Polynesian pantheon, it just makes sense and shows respect to Madame Pele.  Hawai'ian is such a beautiful language and seems very mystical in itself, as words have multiple meanings as well as meanings within meanings.

I'm just wondering if anyone else uses a foreign language in your ritual work and if you find it more effective than using your native tongue.

Me ka pono~
Pythuna

I guess that depends on what is meant by Use of a foreign language.

I've used Words without really being able to speak the language itself.
I write meaning, by using alphabets of languages from ancient times.
I am one who... Sees things but deaf to things not of the mundane even when I see their lips move. So I use a basic form of sign language with a combination of Magickal hand gestures and such.
When I'm doing a working or manifesting specific energies I use hand gestures/sign with thought and imagery. *non-verbal depending on what I'm doing*

On one hand I would say... Yes I use Foreign language all the time.
On the other hand...
I no speaka de language. *said with an accent other than my own*  Cheesy
Logged

Energy Follows Attention
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: January 12, 2010, 02:39:22 pm »

I guess that depends on what is meant by Use of a foreign language.

I've used Words without really being able to speak the language itself.
I write meaning, by using alphabets of languages from ancient times.
I am one who... Sees things but deaf to things not of the mundane even when I see their lips move. So I use a basic form of sign language with a combination of Magickal hand gestures and such.
When I'm doing a working or manifesting specific energies I use hand gestures/sign with thought and imagery. *non-verbal depending on what I'm doing*

I never thought of using sign language in ritual, although now it seems almost obvious. I've been trying to teach myself ASL (it's slow going, but fun).
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Hyacinth Belle
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 03, 2011, 01:02:54 pm
United States United States

Religion: Heathen/Taoist
TCN ID: Hyacinth_Belle
Posts: 1217


Making my sun run...

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: January 12, 2010, 08:26:49 pm »

I use English words sometimes, but it's more when I can't find the right Spanish words I want (or there isn't a Spanish word for what I want to say; it has happened).
Like when? Just curious... what sort of concepts/words are there in English but not in Spanish? Smiley
Logged

"She who stands on tiptoe / doesn't stand firm. / She who rushes ahead / doesn't go far. / She who tries to shine / dims her own light. / She who defines herself / can't know who she really is. / She who has power over others / can't empower herself. / She who clings to her work / will create nothing that endures. / If you want to accord with the Tao, / just do your job, then let go." ~ Tao Te Ching, chp. 24

"Silent and thoughtful a prince's son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15
Selegna
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 26, 2012, 08:50:53 pm
Argentina Argentina

Religion: Eclectic, polytheist, follower of Loki, Brighid and Hera.
Posts: 474


Blog entries (0)

IceAngie
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: January 12, 2010, 09:04:07 pm »

Like when? Just curious... what sort of concepts/words are there in English but not in Spanish? Smiley

I don't remember which ones I've used in ritual (my rituals are spontaneous, so what comes out, comes out, and I don't write them down later), but some words that come to my mind right now, and I can't translate, are "creepy", "odd", "awkward", "freak". There are also some words that in English represent slightly different things (as I understand them, I could be wrong of course), like "pain", "hurt", "sorrow", but in Spanish there's just one word for all of them: "dolor", so I may use an English word for more presicion (I think I have used "pain").
Logged

Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11: January 12, 2010, 09:26:45 pm »

Like when? Just curious... what sort of concepts/words are there in English but not in Spanish? Smiley

Not the OP, but I can give an example with my Persephone chant. In English:

"Persephone, maiden of spring
Life to all the earth you bring
Persephone, queen of the dead
One day with you we'll break our bread."

In Spanish (note: Spanish is not my first language, and I've only reached intermediate level in college, so apologies if the grammar's incorrect Smiley ):

"Persephone, primavera
Al mundo trae la vida
Persephone, Reina Muerte
Sea nuestra guía fuerte."

Which translates to:

"Persephone, spring
To the world you bring life
Persephone, Queen/Reign (of) Death
(That you would) be our strong guide."

Obviously, some of the translation differences comes from the fact that I was trying to maintain a similar rhythm and rhyme structure in both languages. Both versions evoke similar thoughts and feelings I have towards Persephone. But one major difference I found was the translation of "Reina Muerte." It could mean Queen of Death, referring to Persephone's co-rulership of the Underworld. Or it could mean the Queen of the event/moment of death, which to my knowledge she wasn't, but it gives interesting connotations. Or it cold also refer to the "reign of death," through which Persephone guides fallen souls.

It's not that English doesn't have these concepts - it's just that you can express them in different ways in Spanish. Smiley Same holds true for any language.
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Selegna
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 26, 2012, 08:50:53 pm
Argentina Argentina

Religion: Eclectic, polytheist, follower of Loki, Brighid and Hera.
Posts: 474


Blog entries (0)

IceAngie
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12: January 12, 2010, 09:45:23 pm »

It's not that English doesn't have these concepts - it's just that you can express them in different ways in Spanish. Smiley Same holds true for any language.

Yes. Smiley This too.

Beautiful chant, btw. Smiley
Logged

Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: January 12, 2010, 09:55:39 pm »

Yes. Smiley This too.

Beautiful chant, btw. Smiley

Thanks a lot. Smiley It was for my group's Samhain ritual last year.
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Hyacinth Belle
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:December 03, 2011, 01:02:54 pm
United States United States

Religion: Heathen/Taoist
TCN ID: Hyacinth_Belle
Posts: 1217


Making my sun run...

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: January 12, 2010, 10:36:53 pm »

I don't remember which ones I've used in ritual (my rituals are spontaneous, so what comes out, comes out, and I don't write them down later), but some words that come to my mind right now, and I can't translate, are "creepy", "odd", "awkward", "freak". There are also some words that in English represent slightly different things (as I understand them, I could be wrong of course), like "pain", "hurt", "sorrow", but in Spanish there's just one word for all of them: "dolor", so I may use an English word for more presicion (I think I have used "pain").
Interesting. Believe it or not, I took 6 years of Spanish in school... unfortunately I remember hardly a lick of it now. Sad I know English has a remarkable number of names for colors, but as a native speaker I don't really know what else makes it unique. Thanks for the reply.
Logged

"She who stands on tiptoe / doesn't stand firm. / She who rushes ahead / doesn't go far. / She who tries to shine / dims her own light. / She who defines herself / can't know who she really is. / She who has power over others / can't empower herself. / She who clings to her work / will create nothing that endures. / If you want to accord with the Tao, / just do your job, then let go." ~ Tao Te Ching, chp. 24

"Silent and thoughtful a prince's son should be / and bold in fighting; / cheerful and merry every man should be / until he waits for death." ~ Havamal, stanza 15

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
U.S. didn’t accept most foreign Katrina aid
Non-Religious News
LyricFox 4 2260 Last post May 04, 2007, 08:03:00 pm
by Adele
The language you use « 1 2 »
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
dartxni 29 9519 Last post September 30, 2008, 11:45:14 pm
by Medwyn
Language resources?
Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG
Cliona 3 1519 Last post January 14, 2010, 09:36:05 am
by Ellen M.
Outsourcing safety: Airplane repairs move to unregulated foreign shops
Non-Religious News
LyricFox 1 1393 Last post September 30, 2010, 11:31:36 am
by Owl
Foreign Gods
Ta Hiera Hellenic Polytheism SIG
Carnelian 5 4176 Last post March 07, 2011, 08:20:02 pm
by Carnelian
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.099 seconds with 57 queries.