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Author Topic: Worshipping deities from two different pantheons - Celtic and Hellenic  (Read 7980 times)
Caroline
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« Reply #15: January 17, 2010, 03:25:21 pm »

like I mentioned, most of the Hellenic Reconstructionists I've communicated with happen to be followers of Hellenismos, that have said in some instances worshipping a foreign deity would have been illegal in Greece

[snip]

Whether the national requirements were a part of the traditional religion, or not,

Thing is, what was common historically varied wildly depending on the time and place, and there were generally more exceptions than there were rules. Certainly there was no concept of 'national requirements' in a modern sense. Some demoi (most notably Athens) did have oodles of regulations (that they changed to suit their convenience) about when and how civic festivals were celebrated. And the process to 'adopt' a foreign deity was long and complicated and full of politics (see Garland's Introducting New Gods) but there was never One True Pantheon or One True Greek Religion in the ancient Greek world. There wasn't even one "Greece".

So most followers of Hellenismos (outside of very nationalist groups) would be very reluctant to espouse the opinions you're relating here.
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Cliona
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« Reply #16: January 17, 2010, 05:19:47 pm »


It's been said, but I'd just like to reiterate that no, I will not be "combining" pantheons. While I do not have a shrine or altar for Apollo, I can use my bag as an example. I have a small drawstring bag, small enough to fit in most pockets, inside of which I keep small tokens for Manannan, Rhiannon, and Airmid. I find it helps me to have that tangible something, especially since things like praying are very, very new to me. It helps keep me focused and centered when I pray, and I feel that improves my ability to communicate and my openness if They wish to respond. I do not keep a token for Apollo inside this bag. Likewise, an altar would be kept separate from my Celtic altar.

On the subject of Recons...more power to them, but no Recon religion sits well with me personally. I agree with honoring a culture and worshiping their deities in appropriate cultural contexts, but I also feel that culture is fluid and, as has been said, cultures intermingle with others. I don't agree with the rigidity that I'm feeling at least from CR. Part of that might come from my Unitarian upbringing, though! Not a very rigid group!  Grin

My intent is simple - I want to worship a Hellenic God in an appropriate context, separate from my worship of Celtic Gods. I do not believe in cultural purity but believe cultural context is important, especially when working with such ancient Gods and Goddesses. And I'm nervous because Hellenic worship is brand new territory and I'm a bumbling newbie.
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« Reply #17: January 17, 2010, 05:30:33 pm »

I can understand that - personally I've had to do a lot of education when I introduce myself as Pagan, both to recons and Wiccans alike, which gets annoying the dozenth time it happens. I guess I just take a very literal interpretation of the phrase - I'm a New Pagan who follows the old gods in new ways.

I'm actually very hesitant to label myself as "pagan" when people ask. Most of my family is Lutheran; my parents are already the odd-ones-out for abandoning Lutheranism for Unitarianism and not baptizing their kids. My views and interpretations of the Gods are very much in line with Unitarian thought, and so when a label is asked for, I say Unitarian, and it may sound like I'm hiding behind it but I'm actually very proud to be Unitarian. But I also understand that my beliefs are indeed very pagan, and when you say Unitarian people think you don't really believe in anything, which gets frustrating. (the phrase "Polytheistic Unitarian Universalist" jumps to mind...hmmm...)
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fiamma
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« Reply #18: January 18, 2010, 12:33:43 am »

So most followers of Hellenismos (outside of very nationalist groups) would be very reluctant to espouse the opinions you're relating here.

At risk of inappropriate discussion here....

I know who UlsterYank is referring to and there is a particular hand full of Hellenic recons who rather, er, enthusiastically try to enforce a very specific idea of what Hellenic reconstructionism is- basically boils down to if it's not from classical-era Athens, it doesn't count. I'm not sure I'd call them nationalist- they're mostly here in the states, but they definitely do seem to have a thing about cultural purity.
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« Reply #19: January 18, 2010, 12:47:47 am »

I think it's less about how UlsterYank is defining Neo-Paganism, and how some reconstructionists do. I can't speak for his acquaintances/friends, but I know there are several Gaelic Recon/Revivalist groups that very emphatically do not identify as pagan, and strive to disassociate themselves from anything related to Neo-Paganism (which I think some use as interchangeable with Neo-Wiccan).
Yes, that pretty much sums it up. And cheers for the links, go raibh míle maith agat, is file agus scoláire tú  Wink......

I personally don't make the distinction, unless one chooses to identify with the terms, and "technically", even though certain groups disassociate with the terms due to differences in practices and stereotypes associated with neo-wicca and the New Age Movement, Reconstructionism is still a path covered under the Neo-Pagan umbrella, if one recognises the term. (According to Wiki) 
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RandallS
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« Reply #20: January 18, 2010, 08:19:15 am »

I'm not sure I'd call them nationalist- they're mostly here in the states, but they definitely do seem to have a thing about cultural purity.

I call them Hellenic fundies -- and have done so to them in the past.  Fortunately, their group never really got much traction beyond its (very loud) founders.
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« Reply #21: January 18, 2010, 10:54:11 am »

I'm curious if anyone else worships deities from two different pantheons, if anyone worships both Celtic and Hellenic deities specifically, and how to avoid falling into the "fluffy bunny-eclectic pagan" boat.

I'm devoted to a personal thematic pantheon with deities from multiple cultures, two of which are Greek and Irish Celtic. In a lot of cases, I offer to deities separately, but I'm beginning to do more work with the pantheon as a whole. Some of the cultures were historically in contact, like the Greeks and Egyptians. I also think (total UPG) that some gods are aware of each other across pantheons.

I think other people covered "how not to be fluffy well" - accurate information. Direct experience and UPG are good too as long as you're honest with yourself and honest about labeling them as UPG.
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Caroline
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« Reply #22: January 18, 2010, 11:35:09 am »

Reconstructionism is still a path covered under the Neo-Pagan umbrella, if one recognises the term. (According to Wiki) 

Not so much a "path" as a structural approach/methodology, but that useage is fairly widespread (if inaccurate, imo).
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Caroline
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« Reply #23: January 18, 2010, 11:38:22 am »

At risk of inappropriate discussion here....

I know who UlsterYank is referring to and there is a particular hand full of Hellenic recons who rather, er, enthusiastically try to enforce a very specific idea of what Hellenic reconstructionism is- basically boils down to if it's not from classical-era Athens, it doesn't count. I'm not sure I'd call them nationalist- they're mostly here in the states, but they definitely do seem to have a thing about cultural purity.

I suspected who was being spoken of and I was trying to be polite Wink  Nationalist and cultural purity are often entwined, to no good end, but that's another discussion.
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