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Author Topic: Summarian Paganism  (Read 14339 times)
Tirah
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« Topic Start: May 16, 2007, 02:36:14 pm »

I know that this area isn't anyone's particular fortay (at least not that I have noticed), but I am researching into the Summarian religion and neo/reconstructionist-religion and was wondering if anyone here can direct me to some good web sites or books.  I'm not looking for mythology, though (I have pleanty of that) just the actual religious practices.  I'd appreciate anyones help.
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« Reply #1: May 16, 2007, 06:45:31 pm »

I know that this area isn't anyone's particular fortay (at least not that I have noticed), but I am researching into the Summarian religion and neo/reconstructionist-religion and was wondering if anyone here can direct me to some good web sites or books.  I'm not looking for mythology, though (I have pleanty of that) just the actual religious practices.  I'd appreciate anyones help.

Summarian? Never heard of that. Do you mean Sumerian, as in from ancient Mesopotamia?

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« Reply #2: May 16, 2007, 10:54:35 pm »

Summarian? Never heard of that. Do you mean Sumerian, as in from ancient Mesopotamia?

I suspect the original poster does. I just googled "Summarian" and it seems to be a very common misspelling of "Sumerian."  I hadn't seen it before either, but there are some 2700+ hits on Google.
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« Reply #3: May 16, 2007, 11:13:07 pm »

I know that this area isn't anyone's particular fortay (at least not that I have noticed), but I am researching into the Summarian religion and neo/reconstructionist-religion and was wondering if anyone here can direct me to some good web sites or books.  I'm not looking for mythology, though (I have pleanty of that) just the actual religious practices.  I'd appreciate anyones help.

You may have already been to these places, but just in case you haven't:
Gateways to Babylon: http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/
Natib Qadish: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canaanitepaganism/
Sumerian Pagan: http://community.livejournal.com/sumerian_pagan/profile

Good luck with your research.  Smiley

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« Reply #4: May 17, 2007, 10:44:55 am »

Summarian? Never heard of that. Do you mean Sumerian, as in from ancient Mesopotamia?

Shadowcat

Yes, sorry, I meant Sumerian.  I forgot to spell check.

You may have already been to these places, but just in case you haven't:
Gateways to Babylon: http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/
Natib Qadish: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canaanitepaganism/
Sumerian Pagan: http://community.livejournal.com/sumerian_pagan/profile

Good luck with your research.  Smiley



Thanks!  I've already checked out the "Sumerian Pagan" already but I haven't seen the other two.
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« Reply #5: May 17, 2007, 03:52:15 pm »

Yes, sorry, I meant Sumerian.  I forgot to spell check.

Ah. In that case, I can help you a little, but much of my experience is 1)Akkadian, not Sumerian, and 2) It's UPG (unique personal gnosis).

Your best bet is to delve deeply into Sumerian history and mythology, because back then, "religion" was basically everyday stuff to Sumerians. It wasn't a special "category". And that civilization is so ancient, it's very difficult to determine what had a religious signifiance, and what didn't, and there's little information to work with in the first place (compared to studying, say, ancient Greece).

The deities that I work with are Akkadian in origin. Depending on which source you use, Akkadians came before Sumerians or after Sumerians. It is definite that they coexisted at some point in history, which explains very well the similarity of various deities in both pantheons.

Most of my experiences with my deities are, well, personal, not documented at all, and some of it disagrees with Akkad and Sumer's mythological documentaries (though that may simply be the modern adaptions that the deities have chosen in modern times. *shrugs*).

Are you simply doing research on the religious practices of Sumerians in general, or do you have a vested interest in a particular deity or group of deities?

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« Reply #6: May 19, 2007, 07:09:48 pm »

Depending on which source you use, Akkadians came before Sumerians or after Sumerians. It is definite that they coexisted at some point in history, which explains very well the similarity of various deities in both pantheons.

Cat:

Wasn't it after Ur III that (under Sargon or Shulgi?) the kingdoms were merged as Akkad-Sumer?  Then the Elamites sacked the place, and later the Arabs sacked the remains.

It is so easy today to look back and say "this happened, then that, then the other," when all of this spun out over centuries.  Really puts things into perspective.

I like to think the Sumerians came first (with the original Code of Laws and Cuneiform) though have no problems with the Akkadians developing their culture at the same time - trade was certainly not a problem, given the amount of lapis found in the tombs.
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« Reply #7: May 20, 2007, 07:55:57 pm »

You may have already been to these places, but just in case you haven't:
Gateways to Babylon: http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/
Natib Qadish: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canaanitepaganism/
Sumerian Pagan: http://community.livejournal.com/sumerian_pagan/profile

There is a website for Natib Qadish:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/lofts/2938/templetoc.html


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« Reply #8: May 22, 2007, 09:53:29 pm »

Sorry it took me so long to follow up on this thread!

Ah. In that case, I can help you a little, but much of my experience is 1)Akkadian, not Sumerian, and 2) It's UPG (unique personal gnosis).

Your best bet is to delve deeply into Sumerian history and mythology, because back then, "religion" was basically everyday stuff to Sumerians. It wasn't a special "category". And that civilization is so ancient, it's very difficult to determine what had a religious signifiance, and what didn't, and there's little information to work with in the first place (compared to studying, say, ancient Greece).

The deities that I work with are Akkadian in origin. Depending on which source you use, Akkadians came before Sumerians or after Sumerians. It is definite that they coexisted at some point in history, which explains very well the similarity of various deities in both pantheons.

Most of my experiences with my deities are, well, personal, not documented at all, and some of it disagrees with Akkad and Sumer's mythological documentaries (though that may simply be the modern adaptions that the deities have chosen in modern times. *shrugs*).

Are you simply doing research on the religious practices of Sumerians in general, or do you have a vested interest in a particular deity or group of deities?

Shadowcat

I'm pretty well versed on the mythology (I'm a literature studies major specializing in classical and ancient periods) and Sumerian history is a passion of my husband's.  FYI: any sources you are using that places Akkadians before Sumerians -- Toss it!  There is no doubt that the Sumerians pre-date the Akkadians by at least 2500 years.  WarHorse is right.  It was the rising Akkadians that defeated the Sumerians and brought about their fall.

I suppose what I'm looking for is Sumerian Reconstuctionism.  I'm not sure yet.  As for the history and mythology, there is a lot about the pantheons but not much about the religious practices.  The deity I'm most interested in is Inanna (not the Inanna/Ishtar hybrid).

Thanks for the link, Sofia.  I'll check it out.
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Caroline
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« Reply #9: May 23, 2007, 02:37:55 am »

I suppose what I'm looking for is Sumerian Reconstuctionism.  I'm not sure yet.  As for the history and mythology, there is a lot about the pantheons but not much about the religious practices.  The deity I'm most interested in is Inanna (not the Inanna/Ishtar hybrid).

Have you seen the ETCSL site?

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/
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« Reply #10: May 23, 2007, 06:46:30 am »

I suppose what I'm looking for is Sumerian Reconstuctionism.  I'm not sure yet.  As for the history and mythology, there is a lot about the pantheons but not much about the religious practices.

This thought has popped up in my mind as well; they don't appear to have documented their ceremonies, though they documented everything else pretty well.  Maybe the ETCSL will turn something up.  (Thanks, Tirah!)

The deity I'm most interested in is Inanna.

Inanna rocks!  A very 3-D, charismatic deity.  And she can hold her beer!  Cheesy
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« Reply #11: May 23, 2007, 08:54:53 pm »

Sorry it took me so long to follow up on this thread!



I suppose what I'm looking for is Sumerian Reconstuctionism.  I'm not sure yet.  As for the history and mythology, there is a lot about the pantheons but not much about the religious practices.  The deity I'm most interested in is Inanna (not the Inanna/Ishtar hybrid).



Books for you:

Inanna by Diane Wolkstein

   
Inanna: From the Myths of Ancient Sumer by Kim Echlin and Linda Wolfsgruber
Inanna, Lady of Largest Heart : Poems of the Sumerian High by Betty De Shong Meador and Judy Grahn
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« Reply #12: May 24, 2007, 03:26:09 pm »

Cat:

Wasn't it after Ur III that (under Sargon or Shulgi?) the kingdoms were merged as Akkad-Sumer?  Then the Elamites sacked the place, and later the Arabs sacked the remains.

It is so easy today to look back and say "this happened, then that, then the other," when all of this spun out over centuries.  Really puts things into perspective.

I like to think the Sumerians came first (with the original Code of Laws and Cuneiform) though have no problems with the Akkadians developing their culture at the same time - trade was certainly not a problem, given the amount of lapis found in the tombs.

I'm not too sure about whether Akkadians or Sumerians came first. I do agree with the literature that the two peoples coexisted at some point, and then Akkadians took over Sumer, and then, as you say, Elamites and the Arabs ruined the place.

Yeah, this stuff was so stretched out over the centuries, you can't really say anything about the sequence except in very general principles. And I'm sure there were many more events in the area than we will ever know of.

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« Reply #13: May 24, 2007, 03:35:46 pm »

Sorry it took me so long to follow up on this thread!

No problem. Sorry it took me so long to respond. Cheesy

I'm pretty well versed on the mythology (I'm a literature studies major specializing in classical and ancient periods) and Sumerian history is a passion of my husband's.  FYI: any sources you are using that places Akkadians before Sumerians -- Toss it!  There is no doubt that the Sumerians pre-date the Akkadians by at least 2500 years.  WarHorse is right.  It was the rising Akkadians that defeated the Sumerians and brought about their fall.

I suppose what I'm looking for is Sumerian Reconstuctionism.  I'm not sure yet.  As for the history and mythology, there is a lot about the pantheons but not much about the religious practices.  The deity I'm most interested in is Inanna (not the Inanna/Ishtar hybrid).

Thanks for the link, Sofia.  I'll check it out.

Note that I never said one way or other whether Sumer or Akkad came first - I only mentioned that the sequence depended on the sources.  Anyhow...

Sumerian Recon, eh? Well, that's a hard mission... but, hey, I'll be happy to help ya out any way I can. Religious practices in Sumer... well, as I said, that's a bit hard to figure out. The keys are probably in mythology and cultural history. I've certainly never run across any book that talked about Sumerian religious practices.

I have read a fair few books about Inanna, though. I'll post up a list for you tonight or tomorrow, 'kay? Sumerian Inanna, eh? I know more about the Inanna/Ishtar mix than the Sumerian Inanna, but there is a great book about Inanna - damned if I could remember the name, though...

Shadowcat
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« Reply #14: May 24, 2007, 07:38:14 pm »

Books for you:

Inanna by Diane Wolkstein

SatAset:

Was that co-written by Kramer?  If so, I have a copy.
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