The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
March 29, 2020, 11:48:25 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2020, 11:48:25 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Do entheogens really exist?  (Read 8901 times)
BGMarc
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 17, 2011, 09:57:32 pm
Australia Australia

Religion: Stoic (with declining druidic/wiccish hangovers and emergent Hellenic/Kemetic affiliations)
Posts: 1525


Blog entries (0)

Marc Larkin 6marc9
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #30: February 24, 2010, 04:21:56 pm »

It all depends on the person I would say, and how they interpret it.

Assuming that you mean this literally (if not, then how did you mean it?), then you are effectively saying that the 'spirituality' of an experience is dependent on the person having the experience and NOT on the substance at all. Why do you think that some substances are commonly paired with spiritual experience, while others aren't? Do you think that it's culturally determined?
Logged

"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

BGMarc at the Pub

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

yewberry
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 02, 2014, 04:15:33 pm
United States United States

Posts: 2087

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #31: February 24, 2010, 05:04:02 pm »

Do you think that it's entirely a matter of context, or is it possible that some people are having spiritual experiencess, but are not interpretting them as such due to the inappropriate context?

Of course spiritual experiences can happen when one isn't looking for them (and of course the converse is all too often true).  Otherwise the phrase "Whoa...dude" would never have been invented.  Wink  But the vast majority of people getting high are just getting high, not looking for spiritual truths.  And a small minority of them stumble across them completely accidentally.  There may be a few exceptions, but overall if someone has a spiritual experience on a given drug, odds are the seed of that expectation was planted beforehand.

Brina
Logged
BGMarc
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 17, 2011, 09:57:32 pm
Australia Australia

Religion: Stoic (with declining druidic/wiccish hangovers and emergent Hellenic/Kemetic affiliations)
Posts: 1525


Blog entries (0)

Marc Larkin 6marc9
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #32: February 24, 2010, 05:31:55 pm »



Would you say that the spiritual experience is one of insight, rather than perception per se?
Logged

"If Michelangelo had been straight, the Sistine Chapel would have been wallpapered" Robin Tyler

It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

BGMarc at the Pub
Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #33: February 24, 2010, 06:05:05 pm »

Of course spiritual experiences can happen when one isn't looking for them (and of course the converse is all too often true).  Otherwise the phrase "Whoa...dude" would never have been invented.  Wink  But the vast majority of people getting high are just getting high, not looking for spiritual truths.  And a small minority of them stumble across them completely accidentally.  There may be a few exceptions, but overall if someone has a spiritual experience on a given drug, odds are the seed of that expectation was planted beforehand.

Brina

My experience with those who are interested in being 'under the influence' agrees with this.  In the late '70's when one said they 'talked to god' they were not talking about a spiritual experience, but about how high they got.  More then 'totally wasted'.
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
Lykos
Permanently Banned
Master Member
****
Last Login:November 04, 2010, 03:13:23 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenismos
Posts: 749


Blog entries (5)



Ignore
« Reply #34: March 07, 2010, 10:45:07 pm »

Assuming that you mean this literally (if not, then how did you mean it?), then you are effectively saying that the 'spirituality' of an experience is dependent on the person having the experience and NOT on the substance at all. Why do you think that some substances are commonly paired with spiritual experience, while others aren't? Do you think that it's culturally determined?

Hm, good question. Some of it is cultural, I should think. However, in the Americas there are fairly disparate cultures that use different plants containing the same or very similar chemicals as entheogens. E.g. The San Pedro cactus in various arid regions of South American regions vs. Ayahuasca in the jungles. Both of the above plants are used as entheogens by different cultures and both contain DMT IIRC.

Beyond that, it is also interesting to note that in some areas where similar entheogenic compounds were used prior to Christianization the same chemicals are still used. The culture has simply justified the use of said drugs as a part of their Christianity.

In any case, I am really on the fence as far as whether the chemicals themselves are the ultimate source of "spiritual enlightenment" or if the individual determines the outcome of each experience.
That is probably why some of my statements were a bit convuluted and contradictory.   
Logged

Too much wisdom is an oxymoron; too much knowledge an imminent possibility often detrimental to one's health.

"What kills a skunk is the publicity it gives itself." Abraham Lincoln

Praise be to Apollon, Lord of music and creativity!
knitsy
Journeyman
***
Last Login:January 12, 2012, 09:51:08 am
United States United States

Religion: I am Me.
Posts: 106


Stonky Bonk.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #35: October 13, 2010, 10:29:29 am »

Lol. I get the joke, but why couldn't they be if you personally felt there was some significance? IIRC, marijuana is not traditionally considered as an "entheogen" though, except maybe in Rastafari. I guess I could be wrong, but I don't think that many people look at marijuana as a "spiritual plant" with the obvious exception of Rastafarians (and I am not sure they use it PURELY for spiritual reasons all the time).

In any case, the person you responded to had a good point. There ARE certain effects of some drugs that all people or most people experience that could, potentially, be linked to a spiritual connection. This is not to say that is definitely the case, but it is possible and it is an interesting idea.

Entirely UPG and Personal Expedition! Cheesy
In my time spent with stoners of all shapes, sizes, and forms, across the states of Indiana and Kentucky and Tennessee and Texas, I can tell you that every person I met that toked with me thought marijuana was a spiritual plant. It's an opinion of layfolk and hideaways and people spread all over the place--in more ways than one--that can only be found by a personal expedition. Mainly because marijuana is illegal and stoner circles are difficult to find without connections.

I don't want to sound presumptuous; I'm only stating what I have observed over three years of smoking herb. Marijuana is a deeply, incredibly spiritual plant. Its compound, THC, is an utter miracle of nature. It can be synthesized by man, but the full biological impact of the plant itself is lost in that. I don't need to get into the plant's uses as an industrial giant, but I do think its spiritual uses are being greatly overlooked.

I have smoked for three years as a natural alternative to heavy prescription drug use for bipolar disorder. Since I've smoked it, I have become more aware, more spiritually open, and more receptive as a person, more than I have ever been even in my best sober form. It has helped me heal from years of abuse and helps me balance the unbalanced chemicals in my brain in a natural and wholesome way. After gaining so much benefit from it, and learning so much because of it, marijuana is of course to me one of nature's most powerful spiritual forces.

I am most definitely a proponent for the responsible recreational and spiritual use of weed. It is a safe alternative to other addictive recreational substances when used in moderation. But not to get on the "legalize!" high horse--I'm merely expressing my case. I'm a marijuana miracle baby.
Logged

...Maude?

[Warning: Fool]
Nyktipolos
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 29, 2014, 09:54:53 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Path of the Nightwanderer (Polytheist)
Posts: 1581

Gravatar

"Language is like wine upon the lips."

Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #36: November 08, 2010, 11:13:06 pm »


Thanks knitsy for posting this. You gave me the kind of food of thought I needed to kick my arse in the direction of using entheogens, and right now marijuana is the plant/plant spirit I want to work with.
Logged

The Night Wanderer's Path <3
“God didn’t promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow, sun without rain,
but He did promise strength for the day, comfort for the tears, and light for the way.”

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Scientists Say Dark Matter Doesn't Exist
Science and Technology
Phoenix 8 3753 Last post November 01, 2007, 11:03:05 pm
by RandallS
Oh My Goddess. Does That Exist? « 1 2 ... 11 12 »
Teen Pagans SIG
Redhound666 175 39778 Last post July 14, 2010, 12:48:05 am
by mandystardust
Neo-Pagan Unity: Does it Exist, Should it Exist? « 1 2 3 »
Special Topic Discussions
RandallS 38 14093 Last post January 27, 2008, 11:28:21 pm
by SunflowerP
Would the Gods exist without us? « 1 2 3 »
Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology
Juniper 32 9776 Last post October 27, 2009, 11:46:07 am
by ehbowen
Do Muggles Really Exist? « 1 2 3 »
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
RandallS 43 11482 Last post May 25, 2009, 10:21:20 am
by senilorac
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 41 queries.