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Author Topic: What's the Point?  (Read 3915 times)
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« Topic Start: March 30, 2010, 03:39:35 pm »

I was talking to a friend a while back and the conversation drifted to believing in spiritual beings such as gods and goddesses, angels etc.  I, wanting to play devil's advocate, asked what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

I made the argument that if I were sick a doctor is far more likely to cure me than a deity, so why should I bother with deities who, more than likely wouldn't cure me?

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?
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« Reply #1: March 30, 2010, 03:49:57 pm »

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?

Why bother with art, music, books?
Can you live without dancing, singing, painting, reading?

Yes, of course, at least you go on existing.

The soul needs 'food' like the body does.
A human can go by bread and water only, but it is not living, it's surviving on the lowest primal level.

As soon as our basic needs are met, other needs come into focus and spirituality can be one of them.
Needs and their ranking depend on the person of course.

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« Reply #2: March 30, 2010, 04:00:44 pm »

what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?

I see two fundamentally different questions here: why believe, and why worship.

I don't think belief necessitates a reason; I don't believe in the gods for a reason, I just do.

As for why worship- personally, I feel compelled to. I feel good when I honor them regularly, appropriately. To go off your example, if I were ill, I would still see a doctor, but I would pray to Brighid to heal me, to guide the doctor to the right diagnosis/treatment, etcetera. I don't see physical action and religious action as being mutually exclusive; I can do both.
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« Reply #3: March 30, 2010, 07:05:35 pm »

I was talking to a friend a while back and the conversation drifted to believing in spiritual beings such as gods and goddesses, angels etc.  I, wanting to play devil's advocate, asked what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

I made the argument that if I were sick a doctor is far more likely to cure me than a deity, so why should I bother with deities who, more than likely wouldn't cure me?

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?
That's a very thought-provoking question. For me, I suppose it brings purpose to my otherwise boring life. I'm sure there are deeper reasons for why I believe and/or worship, but currently this is the only one I can come up with.
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« Reply #4: March 30, 2010, 09:13:41 pm »

I was talking to a friend a while back and the conversation drifted to believing in spiritual beings such as gods and goddesses, angels etc.  I, wanting to play devil's advocate, asked what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

I don't see belief as something that has a point.  The question doesn't make sense to me.  Belief is not something I can choose to do or not do; thus, it neither has nor requires a point.  It just is.  There might be a reason to it, in the sense of "these are the factors that have convinced me that the Gods exist", but not in the sense of having some sort of point.

Beyond that, I'll simply refer to Juni's post, as I think she's expressed my thoughts on the question itself pretty well.
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« Reply #5: March 30, 2010, 10:08:58 pm »

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?

Why bother with friends or family?  It's the same type of question to me.
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« Reply #6: March 31, 2010, 11:23:58 am »

Why bother with friends or family?  It's the same type of question to me.

Yeah, what he said.

If I'm sick I go to a doctor. If I need legal advice, a lawyer. If I want to feed my soul, I spend time with things that do that...friends, family, my gods, music, tai chi......

Having a relationship with the gods is not about "what can they do for me?" . I wonder, do you feel the same way about other relationships in your life; based on what you get out of it?
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« Reply #7: March 31, 2010, 09:48:07 pm »

Yeah, what he said.

If I'm sick I go to a doctor. If I need legal advice, a lawyer. If I want to feed my soul, I spend time with things that do that...friends, family, my gods, music, tai chi......

Having a relationship with the gods is not about "what can they do for me?" . I wonder, do you feel the same way about other relationships in your life; based on what you get out of it?

Well, as I said, I was just playing Devil's advocate and no I don't have the attitude of what can you do for me.  I think I should have phrased the question  a little differently.  What I was really getting at was the things we do in the physical seem to have a much more profound affect on us, for example, the doctor is a surer bet than a spiritual being. 

As you said, I would imagine the one thing the physical world has a hard time of doing is "feeding the soul" so maybe that's the answer.

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« Reply #8: April 01, 2010, 07:23:01 am »

I made the argument that if I were sick a doctor is far more likely to cure me than a deity, so why should I bother with deities who, more than likely wouldn't cure me?

How do you know that the deities in question wouldn't cure you?
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« Reply #9: April 01, 2010, 07:29:02 am »

How do you know that the deities in question wouldn't cure you?

Agreed, which reminds me to add:  Or that they aren't guiding the hands of those humans who would, or the research that led to the cure being discovered, or etc. etc. etc.  I'd suggest that human involvement in solving a problem (medical or otherwise) doesn't exclude divine involvement in some way.
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« Reply #10: April 01, 2010, 10:54:48 am »

Well, as I said, I was just playing Devil's advocate and no I don't have the attitude of what can you do for me.  I think I should have phrased the question  a little differently.  What I was really getting at was the things we do in the physical seem to have a much more profound affect on us, for example, the doctor is a surer bet than a spiritual being. 

As you said, I would imagine the one thing the physical world has a hard time of doing is "feeding the soul" so maybe that's the answer.



Ah, I missed the Devil's advocate reference.  I am not unused to the voices of skeptics around me, but I am also a little sensitive to certain comments.

Unlike Scientology and some other more ....... exclusionary.....belief systems, most people of faith have a balanced life, incorporating religious belief with their everyday life. So, we go to the doctor AND light a candle. In my experience, those who seek contact with deity draw comfort from them in times of need.

It is entirely possible too, that the physical world seems so much more profound because that is where your focus and energy is.
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« Reply #11: April 01, 2010, 02:42:39 pm »

Ah, I missed the Devil's advocate reference.  I am not unused to the voices of skeptics around me, but I am also a little sensitive to certain comments.

Unlike Scientology and some other more ....... exclusionary.....belief systems, most people of faith have a balanced life, incorporating religious belief with their everyday life. So, we go to the doctor AND light a candle. In my experience, those who seek contact with deity draw comfort from them in times of need.

It is entirely possible too, that the physical world seems so much more profound because that is where your focus and energy is.

I wasn't intending to sound skeptical just was wondering why.  I've  had a few raised eyebrows when talking about spiritual subjects as well Smiley

You bring up a good point though regarding balance.  I was raised in a environment where if you did get sick, went to the doctor and got better, it was still God that got the credit.  Which I think brings up a larger balance issue, I've known so many people that are so focused on their religion they do nothing else.

Now as for me I've been pretty stagnant spiritually, wrapped up in the immediate physical.  I'm working on a balance though.
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« Reply #12: April 16, 2010, 04:45:07 pm »

I was talking to a friend a while back and the conversation drifted to believing in spiritual beings such as gods and goddesses, angels etc.  I, wanting to play devil's advocate, asked what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

I made the argument that if I were sick a doctor is far more likely to cure me than a deity, so why should I bother with deities who, more than likely wouldn't cure me?

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?

I am at this time agnostic, and have been agnostic or atheist for years. I periodically feel attracted to paganism, however. I think it means that I sense something missing within myself at certain points in my life, or something which needs attention or development or nourishment. Spirituality can feed the soul in a world where we feel disconnected.
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« Reply #13: April 17, 2010, 03:58:03 pm »

what's the point to believing in spiritual  beings?

I made the argument that if I were sick a doctor is far more likely to cure me than a deity, so why should I bother with deities who, more than likely wouldn't cure me?

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?

But..maybe..they would cure the cause of your ilness?

If you heal the physical body, there still can be left hidden illness in the emotional body and even higher.
If you start with ph. body you get some result,
but, could be, that because the cure was only symptomatic,
dis-ease will show itself somewhere else and maybe even stronger later on.

It you start with the highest as possible part of your aura,
the part that can be healed only by divine spiritual beings,
you can get rid of the cause and get rid of all of the symptoms at once.

But, naturally, cooperating with the doctor and supporting your body is a good idea at that time.
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« Reply #14: April 18, 2010, 04:29:18 am »

So I guess the ultimate question would be, why bother with deities, or any form of spirit?
The same reason I bother writing and spending time with my mom. I wouldn't physically die if I stopped writing and spending time with people I love, but I'd rather die, because these are fundamental things that give my life meaning.

And the part about the doctor is very funny to me, because I rejected most forms of modern medicine years ago (for mostly non-religious reasons). If I were sick, I would ask the Goddesses and Gods to either heal me or guide me to the cure. If Hecate absolutely commanded me to go to a doctor I might consider it, but she'd have to threaten me pretty good.
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