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Author Topic: Levels of Ritual Participation  (Read 5930 times)
Juni
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« Topic Start: May 25, 2007, 10:42:28 am »

I'm not entirely sure how to word this properly, but here's my question anyway.

What levels of participation are allowed during your religion's rituals by differing levels of members? That is- taking Catholics as an example, those who can or can't accept Communion. Everyone can come to church and listen to the sermon, sing and do the "God be with you" handshaking stuff, but only certain members can go up to the altar and accept Communion.

Does your path have anything like this?
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« Reply #1: May 25, 2007, 10:49:07 pm »

I'm not entirely sure how to word this properly, but here's my question anyway.

What levels of participation are allowed during your religion's rituals by differing levels of members? That is- taking Catholics as an example, those who can or can't accept Communion. Everyone can come to church and listen to the sermon, sing and do the "God be with you" handshaking stuff, but only certain members can go up to the altar and accept Communion.

Does your path have anything like this?

Side Question:

Which members are excluded from doing so? 

Women on their periods?  Unconfirmed (meaning not having gone through Confirmation) children? 
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« Reply #2: May 26, 2007, 02:41:06 pm »

Does your path have anything like this?

Yes. Trying to figure out how to explain it, however, is a little trickier.

Roughly, participation and tasks in ritual are divided up into things anyone can participate in, things you need training for, and things that are limited to initiates (or higher degrees)

General ritual: Showing up, doing whatever the working is, etc: Anyone can participate - and for various reasons (partly having to do with space and movement flow), we generally discourage sitting there and not at least somewhat participating.

Unless we're explicitly hosting a public ritual, children are generally not welcome, and guests need to be discussed well in advance.

Taking on ritual roles: Limited to people with relevant training. Students learn parts of the ritual as they go through the first year of training: a month or two after we cover it, they start doing it in ritual.

Some roles are limited to people with specific levels of training: priesting and priestessing, for example, are generally done by initiates. Invocation/aspecting/drawing down is never taught to people before initiation, though we've very occaisionally had people who are very open channels who do it before that. (In which case, we work with what we've got.)

Some rituals are limited to specific groups: our Samhain is initiates, students, and a very few long-term friends of the group as guests. Initiations are limited to people who are that degree level and higher.

No particular purity restrictions, though we do make use of pre-ritual bath, some food limitations/fasting when appropriate, and other things like that, as well as building in some ritual purification into the ritual itself.
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« Reply #3: May 26, 2007, 08:34:44 pm »

Side Question:

Which members are excluded from doing so? 

Women on their periods?  Unconfirmed (meaning not having gone through Confirmation) children? 

Well, it's been a long time since I've gone, but if I recall correctly, in order to take communion you have to:

  • be Roman Catholic
  • have gone through the "First Communion" ceremony (different from confirmation, usually done in elementary school)
  • have confessed any outstanding sins (lots of people don't bother here)
  • have fasted before Mass (possibly, I'm not sure this is really required any more)

I think there are some more possible exceptions for other Catholic churches (I think there's a Polish Catholic church or something?) and for interfaith services.
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« Reply #4: May 26, 2007, 09:08:23 pm »

Well, it's been a long time since I've gone, but if I recall correctly, in order to take communion you have to:

  • be Roman Catholic
  • have gone through the "First Communion" ceremony (different from confirmation, usually done in elementary school)
  • have confessed any outstanding sins (lots of people don't bother here)
  • have fasted before Mass (possibly, I'm not sure this is really required any more)

I think there are some more possible exceptions for other Catholic churches (I think there's a Polish Catholic church or something?) and for interfaith services.

Thank you. 
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« Reply #5: May 30, 2007, 01:22:32 pm »

I'm not entirely sure how to word this properly, but here's my question anyway.

What levels of participation are allowed during your religion's rituals by differing levels of members? That is- taking Catholics as an example, those who can or can't accept Communion. Everyone can come to church and listen to the sermon, sing and do the "God be with you" handshaking stuff, but only certain members can go up to the altar and accept Communion.

Does your path have anything like this?

Hmmm...not really. Other groves may do things differently, but I had a semi-major part in the first ritual I ever attended in my grove. ADF is pretty adamant about being accessible to the public, and my grove frequently has people coming into a ritual planning as their first meeting, and throwing stuff in. They often back down from actually taking a part in the ritual performance itself, but are not barred from doing so.

It has its pros and cons.
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« Reply #6: May 30, 2007, 01:30:13 pm »

I'm not entirely sure how to word this properly, but here's my question anyway.

What levels of participation are allowed during your religion's rituals by differing levels of members? That is- taking Catholics as an example, those who can or can't accept Communion. Everyone can come to church and listen to the sermon, sing and do the "God be with you" handshaking stuff, but only certain members can go up to the altar and accept Communion.

Does your path have anything like this?

Anybody can attend services, matter of fact the shul (synagogue) I belong to seems to be the class trip site.

You have to be a Jew, wether birth or by choice (convertion) to handle the Torah.

You have to be and adult (over the age of 13) to be called up to read from the Torah and to lead services. That's usually the major part of a Bar or Bat Mitzvah.

There are probably rules regarding women on their period and people who are sitting shiva from reading the Torah, but I'm not sure.


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« Reply #7: May 31, 2007, 01:00:54 am »

...people who are sitting shiva from reading the Torah, but I'm not sure.

What is "sitting shiva"?
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« Reply #8: May 31, 2007, 01:31:22 am »

What is "sitting shiva"?

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe it's the death watch.  In my family we call it sitting vigil.  A group of family and friends will take turns sitting with the one who is dying, trading off to eat and sleep.  That way no-one dies alone if we can help it.

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Juni
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« Reply #9: May 31, 2007, 06:46:56 am »

What is "sitting shiva"?

Shiva is the seven day mourning period, mandatory for a close relative (sibling, parent, etc) and optional for everyone else.
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« Reply #10: May 31, 2007, 07:17:09 am »

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe it's the death watch.  In my family we call it sitting vigil.  A group of family and friends will take turns sitting with the one who is dying, trading off to eat and sleep.  That way no-one dies alone if we can help it.

Absent

Juni got it right. It's the 7 day mourning period After somebody dies. 

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« Reply #11: May 31, 2007, 11:50:07 am »

Shiva is the seven day mourning period, mandatory for a close relative (sibling, parent, etc) and optional for everyone else.

Juni got it right. It's the 7 day mourning period After somebody dies. 

My thanks to both of you.

Thanks to Marilyn, too, for taking a shot in the dark and doing her best.  Smiley
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« Reply #12: June 06, 2007, 01:02:34 pm »

What levels of participation are allowed during your religion's rituals by differing levels of members?

Our rituals are all "call and response", even so there are parts and places where everyone participates. It's required, for example, that we all come into the ritual area already in a certain mind-state and energetic state and are required to maintain these throughout the duration of every ritual (no real "stretch" there, our longest have gone for *maybe* half an hour).

If someone is so moved, it's proper for them to give an "Ayea!" or a "Blessed be!" or whatever as he sees fit (kinda like "giving an 'amen'" in church).

Too, there are points when we all share wine together. At Samhain, we all burn slips of paper on which we've written things in our lives from the previous year we wish to rid ourselves of.

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for, or am I out in left field? Again. Tongue
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« Reply #13: June 06, 2007, 03:14:13 pm »

Our rituals are all "call and response", even so there are parts and places where everyone participates. It's required, for example, that we all come into the ritual area already in a certain mind-state and energetic state and are required to maintain these throughout the duration of every ritual (no real "stretch" there, our longest have gone for *maybe* half an hour).

If someone is so moved, it's proper for them to give an "Ayea!" or a "Blessed be!" or whatever as he sees fit (kinda like "giving an 'amen'" in church).

Too, there are points when we all share wine together. At Samhain, we all burn slips of paper on which we've written things in our lives from the previous year we wish to rid ourselves of.

Is this the kind of thing you're looking for, or am I out in left field? Again. Tongue

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Smiley Is there anything that, say, someone with their Second degree can do but a First degree can't?
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« Reply #14: June 06, 2007, 04:47:37 pm »

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Smiley Is there anything that, say, someone with their Second degree can do but a First degree can't?

In a ritual-specific situation? Yes. A woman can be chosen by the HPs to be her "Maiden", which is kind of like a helper who has specific duties to fulfill. Likewise, one man is chosen to be the Wayland - "he who keeps the rituals and discussions in order" and who also has other specific duties.
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