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Author Topic: Gods related to crows?  (Read 9655 times)
Firaza
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« Reply #15: April 06, 2010, 03:43:26 pm »

Off-hand, I think Apollon has links to ravens. I thought I remember reading somewhere that he has a cloak of raven feathers?

For some reason, I associate Hermes with crows and/or ravens. It's a bit weird.
Oh yes, I read that story. A raven told Apollo that his cows had been stolen by Hermes ("the Twelfth Olypmian"), but Apollo called the raven a liar and turned it black. Then Apollo found out it was true.
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« Reply #16: April 06, 2010, 04:04:15 pm »

I'm not 100% on board with the akin to the Furies idea, but it is valid.

I should have clarified- not akin to the Furies in role, but similar in that they are individuals that function as a group, instead of simply being nameless, faceless "phantom creatures." I apologize for the confusion- I keep leaving things out by accident lately. Undecided
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« Reply #17: April 06, 2010, 04:50:11 pm »

I should have clarified- not akin to the Furies in role, but similar in that they are individuals that function as a group, instead of simply being nameless, faceless "phantom creatures." I apologize for the confusion- I keep leaving things out by accident lately. Undecided

Ah, that makes sense. And no, it's not you, I'm being critical and reading far to much into a lot of things.
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« Reply #18: April 08, 2010, 12:30:04 pm »

Oh yes, I read that story. A raven told Apollo that his cows had been stolen by Hermes ("the Twelfth Olypmian"), but Apollo called the raven a liar and turned it black. Then Apollo found out it was true.

      Ravens DO talk. Picture this scenario: people in a skin boat course along the Pacific coast of the Americas, as the last continental glacier is receding.

      A raven consort, perched on his (males talk more) mount at the front of the kayak, is sent aloft to scout for game or enemies. he spies a herd of mastodons, drinking from a stream that rages down to the sea. He returns to the boat and says, in human tongue "Game. Big game." Then chuckles in satisfaction as ravens are wont to do. ( I have them near me on the Blue Ridge in Virginia where they soar along the cliffs and speak incessantly ) 

     Finding the game the male and female hunters (women were equal before patriarchy) approach and slay what they will. The raven feasts as they do, watching with glittering eye as the fire dies down on the shingled shore, the waves breaking in the background. The hunters are blond, and the woman's golden braid trails down her tanned back.

     Magic was afoot in those times and we barely know of what they did. All I have said is science, which is what magic is, together in the same boat.

             Blessings,

                      Arne
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Altair
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« Reply #19: April 08, 2010, 12:41:04 pm »

      Ravens DO talk. Picture this scenario:

I'm at work, so I don't really have time to compose a proper response to this at the moment. Suffice to say, I have major issues with the preceding, if it's being presented as a factual account.
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« Reply #20: April 08, 2010, 01:37:09 pm »

      Ravens DO talk.
I'm at work, so I don't really have time to compose a proper response to this at the moment. Suffice to say, I have major issues with the preceding, if it's being presented as a factual account.

Crows are smart. My father tells me about a pet crow that his parents used to have, named "Jim Crow." (Hey, it was the South and it was the '40s.) Although he was never actually trained, he picked up enough human language to communicate basic ideas. My dad remembers the crow saying, "Mama! Mama! Dog! Dog!" when the neighbor's dog came on the property.
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« Reply #21: April 08, 2010, 01:57:27 pm »

I'm at work, so I don't really have time to compose a proper response to this at the moment. Suffice to say, I have major issues with the preceding, if it's being presented as a factual account.

        Who said it was factual?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

         It is an imagined scenario. I have seen plenty of talking crows. Here is a talking raven:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZyBNWVD70w

         and here is Irene Pepperberg's famous parrot, Alex, who had syntax. That is, he could describe novel objects or events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6KvPN_Wt8I

        These birds are actually smarter than chimps and they also communicate in human language.

               Questions?
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Altair
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« Reply #22: April 08, 2010, 02:01:47 pm »

Crows are smart. My father tells me about a pet crow that his parents used to have, named "Jim Crow." (Hey, it was the South and it was the '40s.) Although he was never actually trained, he picked up enough human language to communicate basic ideas. My dad remembers the crow saying, "Mama! Mama! Dog! Dog!" when the neighbor's dog came on the property.


Crows are said to be ridiculously smart. I can't cite whom, but I recall one scientist quoted as saying that if crows had opposable thumbs, we'd be done as the dominant species on the planet. Which probably overstates the case, but you get the idea.

But that's a far cry from the Paleolithic Hunter and His/Her Trusty Corvid Sidekick scenario described earlier. I'd need some sources for that.
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Altair
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« Reply #23: April 08, 2010, 02:05:29 pm »

        Who said it was factual?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

         It is an imagined scenario.

Thanks for the clarification.

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Firaza
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« Reply #24: April 08, 2010, 07:57:53 pm »

        Who said it was factual?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh??

         It is an imagined scenario.

I was confused about your earlier post too, so thanks for clarifying. Smiley I do know that crows and ravens can learn to speak in the human tongue, and that they're one of the smartest animals on the planet.

I was just informed by a Native American friend that personal spiritual totems don't really exist in most modern communities, which is a bit disappointing! So I guess the research continues.
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« Reply #25: April 09, 2010, 09:13:35 am »

Native American friend that personal spiritual totems don't really exist in most modern communities

At the risk of sounding argumentative I disagree.

As a Anishnabe/Irish woman I have experienced and continue to experience the benefits of being in relationship with my personal spiritual totems.  Perhaps your friend was inferring/stating that family and clan totems are at risk of disappearing?  That would be a reasonable assumption with the loss of culture and tradition that Aboriginal communities endure.

Just a thought.
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Firaza
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« Reply #26: April 09, 2010, 09:39:19 am »

Perhaps your friend was inferring/stating that family and clan totems are at risk of disappearing?

It seemed to me like she was saying they weren't so much spiritual as a personal representation of oneself. It was a bit confusing so I agreed to do more research before jumping to any conclusions.
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Spirit Bear
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« Reply #27: April 10, 2010, 12:14:50 am »

Long before I reconnected with my spirituality, I had felt an affinity towards crows. I take them as good omens, especially whenever I find them cawing outside of my building in the mornings. Typically I take it to mean that I will have a good day. The day after I decided to return to my faith, which was also a day of an important exam, I found them cawing outside of the exam building. When I went out this past weekend to my campus' spiritual center, just thinking about entering was incredibly unnerving and intimidating. When I arrived, I found a small murder cawing outside, as if urging me to enter.

I normally don't hear of crows in a favorable light, so I was wondering if there are any Gods or similar entities personified by or associated with the crow, especially as good omens? If it helps, I have Kemetic leanings, but I'm starting to think I'm more of a chaote or eclectic/multi-faith polytheist.
i do know they are the world's smartest bird, and that might play a crucial role.
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« Reply #28: April 10, 2010, 03:59:46 pm »

I was confused about your earlier post too, so thanks for clarifying. Smiley I do know that crows and ravens can learn to speak in the human tongue, and that they're one of the smartest animals on the planet.

I was just informed by a Native American friend that personal spiritual totems don't really exist in most modern communities, which is a bit disappointing! So I guess the research continues.

Trying to think back on my very light American Indian studies and I think that the ravens were considered Thunderbirds. 
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« Reply #29: April 10, 2010, 04:06:50 pm »

Trying to think back on my very light American Indian studies and I think that the ravens were considered Thunderbirds. 

FWIW:

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/thunderbird-and-trickster.html
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/quillayute.html
http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheOriginoftheThunderbird-Passamaquoddy.html
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