The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
June 15, 2019, 05:06:51 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 15, 2019, 05:06:51 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: How far from the actual holiday is too long?  (Read 2392 times)
Mithril
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:October 08, 2011, 09:24:55 pm
France France

Religion: Witch
TCN ID: Mithril
Posts: 1010


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: May 02, 2010, 11:15:27 pm »

Since Beltane was today/yesterday, I really wanted to do something to celebrate, but I absolutely do not have time because of upcoming AP tests. So that got me thinking about how close a celebration has to be to the actual holiday for it to 'count'. If I stop and meditate on it, the actual days of the holidays have a specific feel to them. Even though that feel is strongest on the actual day, it doesn't vanish completely the day after, so I suppose you could celebrate as long as that feel is present at all. Or is a week later just as good? After all, I suppose when these festivals originated, people couldn't be that precise about the day. What do you think is the cutoff before it's just too far away from the actual holiday to count? Before the moon changes phase, or maybe even just as long as you celebrate within the season?
Logged

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!"
~Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

UlsterYank
Master Member
****
Last Login:January 21, 2013, 02:18:03 pm
Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Republic of

Religion: Traidisiúnachais Gaelach, Witchcraft, Thelema
TCN ID: UlsterYank
Posts: 292


Déan mar is Toil leat, a bheas mar iomlán an Dlí

Blog entries (0)

anmericeanach
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1: May 03, 2010, 12:14:26 am »

Since Beltane was today/yesterday, I really wanted to do something to celebrate, but I absolutely do not have time because of upcoming AP tests. So that got me thinking about how close a celebration has to be to the actual holiday for it to 'count'.
Bealtaine being a "Celtic" holiday, the Celts followed a Lunar calender, which would have had a different date anyway, and many Celtic Pagans today evern wait for certain seasonal occurrences, so it's up to you. I know some Traditional Wiccan covens that even meet on the weekends closest to the Sabbats, so there you go Smiley
Logged

"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains" AL II:9
Aster Breo
SIG Coordinator
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:January 29, 2013, 09:32:22 pm
United States United States

Religion: Feral Brighideach
TCN ID: Aster Breo
Posts: 5260


Avatar byJuni & Dania

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #2: May 03, 2010, 01:48:57 am »

After all, I suppose when these festivals originated, people couldn't be that precise about the day.

This.  And what UlsterYank said.

Unless the celebration is specifically tied to a celestial event, like an equinox, I don't see a reason to feel tied to a particular calendar day.  And even for the equinoxes and such, sometimes life just gets in the way. 

I've been thinking a lot about this with regard to Imbolc.  I celebrate it on February 1 because that's when we all celebrate it, even though, to be honest, it might make more sense to celebrate it a little later because of the way the weather and seasons are in my area.  But our "community" has designated Jan. 31-Feb. 1 as Imbolc, and I want to be part of that.  Does Brighid really walk the land on THAT night, as opposed to any other night?  I don't know, but it's fun to be part of that.  Kinda like Santa.  Wink

That said, though, real life has to take precedence sometimes.  Your exams are important and that's where your energy needs to be right now.  Celebrate the festival when you can and enjoy it then.
Logged

"The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."  ~ George Bernard Shaw
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 19, 2015, 10:34:23 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: May 03, 2010, 10:55:23 am »

Since Beltane was today/yesterday, I really wanted to do something to celebrate, but I absolutely do not have time because of upcoming AP tests. So that got me thinking about how close a celebration has to be to the actual holiday for it to 'count'. If I stop and meditate on it, the actual days of the holidays have a specific feel to them. Even though that feel is strongest on the actual day, it doesn't vanish completely the day after, so I suppose you could celebrate as long as that feel is present at all. Or is a week later just as good? After all, I suppose when these festivals originated, people couldn't be that precise about the day. What do you think is the cutoff before it's just too far away from the actual holiday to count? Before the moon changes phase, or maybe even just as long as you celebrate within the season?

There's a couple of pieces with this. First, I try to do *something* that relates on the day itself. This doesn't have to be a huge thing - could be a few minutes of reflection, could be adding something to my altar, could be a simple community aspect that doesn't take too long.

The second part is group work: it's quite common for groups to schedule to the nearest weekend for practical reasons. Or even the more distant weekend, if other commitments are going on.

The third part is what happens if you extend too far. There's a couple of things that make it problematic for me, given an 8 Sabbat wheel (some of which stop applying if you're doing something else.

1) It's really easy to *keep* putting it off, in my experience. I'm usually a lot better off, even on a busy weekend, finding an hour and doing something, rather than hoping for the perfect time in a few weeks.

2) It's often helpful - especially in academic crunch time, or work-related crunch time - to go spend an hour or two doing something else *anyway*. Gives your brain a chance to clear, gives you new focus, etc. This is not necessarily the time for a big long involved ritual - but something simple and celebratory works nicely.

3) The other problem with pushing stuff off is that you end up with a wobbly wheel - you get widely varying times between Sabbats. Sometimes, this can work, if *all* of your Sabbats, say, are pegged to consistent physical chances in the environment around you, or at least the four fire festivals are, plus the solstices/equinoxes. However, if you're not doing that, moving one of them drastically has, for me, tended to impact not only that year, but until I get around to the next cycle. I have less time to move into the next Sabbat,  the previous one can feel dragged out.

(My tolerance for this is about 5 days: if group ritual is going to be further off than that, I've found I need to go do something on my own too, or I start getting grouchy about it.

Mileage definitely varies on this one, but I - as you can see above - really don't like postponing for anything less than absolute emergency reasons (major illness or other crisis.)
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: May 03, 2010, 11:55:35 am »



Our grove usually does it the first weekend after the Sabbat, though I think there have been a couple of times it was the weekend before it because it was either on a Monday or something else was going on the weekend after and we couldn't do it then.
Logged
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:April 16, 2019, 02:44:12 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #5: May 03, 2010, 04:44:29 pm »

What do you think is the cutoff before it's just too far away from the actual holiday to count? Before the moon changes phase, or maybe even just as long as you celebrate within the season?
My Wheel is (to use Jenett's apt phrasing) wobbly this year - thanks to the Irritated Bag of Rocks (my gallbladder), I wasn't able to have my "Feast of Returning Light" until almost mid-March.  At that point, I most certainly wasn't pretending it was Brigidfeast; it was a kind of combo of the ritual doings of Brigidfeast that, if I just skipped them altogether, would have made my yearwheel even more off-kilter, and an early nod at the equinox (which I wouldn't be able to do anything major/formal for, since I'd be in California).

That's not (I think) what's thrown off my Beltane; it's just that... well, if I'd had my Beltane while there was a snowstorm raging outside, it would have been even more wobble-inducing than a delay.  I'll likely do it this coming Thursday night/Friday morning, though I'm considering watching the leaf-buds closely and seeing if I can guess when the eve before the Green Haze will be.  (<considers Mithril's location; decides an explanation of that might be in order> Up here, the trees are bare until sometime in May - usually, though not always, around the second week - so after Beltane, I'm looking at trees in the distance every day.  Bare trees... bare trees... bare trees... bare trees... bare trees with a faint green haze around them!)

I did mark Brigidfeast in smaller ways - the Cill's Group Keeping was especially good for this - and have been, as always, just noting the ongoing gradual shifts (the Wheel doesn't turn only at the sabbats; it's in continual motion) so I don't feel completely out of whack, but it's a weird year, and it'll keep on having a bit of weirdness until next Brigidfeast.

Your conditions are quite different from mine, so my approach as a whole is unlikely to be useful for you, but hopefully there'll be bits of ideas that you can do something with.

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
Caomi_Brannon
Master Member
****
Last Login:September 09, 2010, 11:46:07 am
United States United States

Religion: Leanaí Laochra: Eireannach Tradition
Posts: 430


I write, therefore I live.

Blog entries (1)

amma.dennis


Ignore
« Reply #6: May 03, 2010, 05:11:40 pm »


My wheel is a bit wobbly this year also. This weekend I was dealing with a three day long migraine that was just my baby's way of telling me just how much they love mommy. I completely missed the holiday. To make up for it, I think I am going to have a make-up day Wednesday and light a candle and say a little blessing. It's not the production I was looking at doing, but its an acknowledgment. I'm thinking that the fact that I missed the festival itself due to my own fertility was kinda a sign. I don't know. That's just me.
Logged

ehbowen
Master Member
****
Last Login:January 10, 2019, 10:21:19 pm
United States United States

Religion: Southern Baptist
Posts: 255


The Loco Engineer

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: May 04, 2010, 07:25:38 am »

Since Beltane was today/yesterday, I really wanted to do something to celebrate, but I absolutely do not have time because of upcoming AP tests. So that got me thinking about how close a celebration has to be to the actual holiday for it to 'count'. If I stop and meditate on it, the actual days of the holidays have a specific feel to them. Even though that feel is strongest on the actual day, it doesn't vanish completely the day after, so I suppose you could celebrate as long as that feel is present at all. Or is a week later just as good? After all, I suppose when these festivals originated, people couldn't be that precise about the day. What do you think is the cutoff before it's just too far away from the actual holiday to count? Before the moon changes phase, or maybe even just as long as you celebrate within the season?

Different God and a different religion, but Moses gave the Israelites the option of observing a "second Passover" one month later if for some good reason (such as ritual uncleanness or being away on a journey) they were unable to keep it at the regular time.
Logged

--------Eric H. Bowen

  Where's the KABOOM!? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Resistance is futile. We will be assimilated.—treekisser
Mithril
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:October 08, 2011, 09:24:55 pm
France France

Religion: Witch
TCN ID: Mithril
Posts: 1010


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #8: May 13, 2010, 10:49:49 pm »


1) It's really easy to *keep* putting it off, in my experience. I'm usually a lot better off, even on a busy weekend, finding an hour and doing something, rather than hoping for the perfect time in a few weeks.


Ha, yep. I have plenty of time now and I *still* haven't done anything. But now it's definitely too long, so I won't do anything. I also agree with you that you need time between Sabbats. Even if I celebrate right on the actual day, sometimes I'll still feel like it was only last week by the time the next one comes and I can't get into the mood.

well, if I'd had my Beltane while there was a snowstorm raging outside, it would have been even more wobble-inducing than a delay.  I'll likely do it this coming Thursday night/Friday morning, though I'm considering watching the leaf-buds closely and seeing if I can guess when the eve before the Green Haze will be.  (<considers Mithril's location; decides an explanation of that might be in order> Up here, the trees are bare until sometime in May - usually, though not always, around the second week - so after Beltane, I'm looking at trees in the distance every day.  Bare trees... bare trees... bare trees... bare trees... bare trees with a faint green haze around them!)

Your conditions are quite different from mine, so my approach as a whole is unlikely to be useful for you, but hopefully there'll be bits of ideas that you can do something with.

Actually, you made me realize what a lot of my problem is, and what I would do if I were remaining in Texas would be to shift all the festivals so that they actually correspond to the season, because I think that's also one my problems. It's hard to connect to nature through the festivals if they themselves aren't connected to it. But as I'm heading north soon, there's no point. Smiley

Different God and a different religion, but Moses gave the Israelites the option of observing a "second Passover" one month later if for some good reason (such as ritual uncleanness or being away on a journey) they were unable to keep it at the regular time.

That's really interesting, I did not know that!
Logged

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!"
~Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Vibrant at an actual three months.
Social Discussion Boards
WarHorse 12 2301 Last post November 30, 2007, 08:58:21 pm
by ShadowcatCM
Holiday Sweeties « 1 2 »
Cooking SIG
Star 16 2893 Last post December 31, 2007, 07:31:53 pm
by Celtee
Holiday Shifts?
Cauldron Cill
Dania 8 2537 Last post March 21, 2008, 03:30:46 pm
by Dania
What's your winter holiday mix?
Non-Pagan Religions and Interfaith Discussions
Sperran 13 4078 Last post December 17, 2008, 10:42:20 am
by folksymama
New Holiday Albums
Music, Television, and Film
Atheris 10 1876 Last post December 23, 2008, 10:48:39 pm
by RandallS
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.104 seconds with 46 queries.