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Author Topic: What language do you prefer for rituals?  (Read 7948 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #15: May 12, 2010, 07:23:08 am »

I have an additional question. Most religions have their "own" language. Jews have hebrew, Roman catholics have latin, muslims have arabic,...

I was wondering if their is such a language typical to witchcraft. Where was the origin of witchcraft anyway?

... That doesn't quite make sense to me.  I mean, the culture the religions came from has those languages, so of course the religion and the language go TOGETHER - but to say Jews have Hebrew as some kind of religious language .. no.  It's their tribal language that goes along with their religion.

And the Catholics don't use Latin anymore as far as I know, either.
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« Reply #16: May 12, 2010, 11:40:40 am »

I have an additional question. Most religions have their "own" language. Jews have hebrew, Roman catholics have latin, muslims have arabic,...

I was wondering if their is such a language typical to witchcraft. Where was the origin of witchcraft anyway?

Er, which Witchcraft? Wicca isn't the end all be all to witchcraft.  I mean, it's a relatively NEW form of witchcraft, pulled together from a variety of sources and made into its own glorious thing. Heh. Pretty much every country, every tribe/race/ethnicity has at some point had some sort of witchcraft, but they can differ INCREDIBLY from one to another. Smiley
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« Reply #17: May 12, 2010, 01:46:56 pm »

... That doesn't quite make sense to me.  I mean, the culture the religions came from has those languages, so of course the religion and the language go TOGETHER - but to say Jews have Hebrew as some kind of religious language .. no.  It's their tribal language that goes along with their religion.

And the Catholics don't use Latin anymore as far as I know, either.
Actually it does depend on where it was originated. And Latin is still in use (it's still obligated if you want to become a priest), but for the services are in the official language of the country. But you still see a lot of texts and writings in Latin. I'm quit sure Hebrew and Arabic are still used. Maybe not so often anymore, but still,...
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« Reply #18: May 12, 2010, 01:53:36 pm »

Er, which Witchcraft? Wicca isn't the end all be all to witchcraft.  I mean, it's a relatively NEW form of witchcraft, pulled together from a variety of sources and made into its own glorious thing. Heh. Pretty much every country, every tribe/race/ethnicity has at some point had some sort of witchcraft, but they can differ INCREDIBLY from one to another. Smiley

Well, I didn't really mean Wicca, but the real "old" witchcraft. Religions do change during time, I agree, but where lies the real origin of it? Not that witchcraft is a religion, but I don't have another word to describe it. But you see where I'm getting? The real beginning...Well I live in Europe and I think like witchcraft was seen a lot in England, but I could be mistaken...Maybe some Gaelic or Keltic or something... I really don't know
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« Reply #19: May 12, 2010, 02:02:06 pm »

Actually it does depend on where it was originated. And Latin is still in use (it's still obligated if you want to become a priest), but for the services are in the official language of the country. But you still see a lot of texts and writings in Latin. I'm quit sure Hebrew and Arabic are still used. Maybe not so often anymore, but still,...


... Hebrew is the official language of Israel, and Arabic is the official language of a bunch of countries.  Yes, the religion is in that language too, but it's just plain THEIR LANGUAGE.  Not their religious language - just their language.
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« Reply #20: May 12, 2010, 02:12:19 pm »

Well, I didn't really mean Wicca, but the real "old" witchcraft. Religions do change during time, I agree, but where lies the real origin of it? Not that witchcraft is a religion, but I don't have another word to describe it. But you see where I'm getting? The real beginning...Well I live in Europe and I think like witchcraft was seen a lot in England, but I could be mistaken...Maybe some Gaelic or Keltic or something... I really don't know

Well. You have to be specific about which witchcraft you want. There are a LOT of different forms in Africa. There's a specific Italian witchcraft, called  Stregheria.  The Pennsylvania Dutch have a Christianized witchcraft, called Pow-Wow. In Peru, there are 'witch-doctors' called brujos or curanderos.   Do you see what I mean? Magic-making is world-wide.  Paganism and witchcraft can go hand in hand, but you don't necessarily have magic in ALL pagan beliefs...
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« Reply #21: May 12, 2010, 02:22:55 pm »

Paganism and witchcraft can go hand in hand, but you don't necessarily have magic in ALL pagan beliefs...

And, to further muddy the waters, not all magic is witchcraft.
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« Reply #22: May 12, 2010, 02:40:15 pm »

And, to further muddy the waters, not all magic is witchcraft.

Exactly!

And before the advent of Wicca, I can almost guarantee that across Europe, one witch wouldn't have learned the same witchcraft as another. 

Hedgewitchery, for example, is extremely loose in what one can/does learn, and  is kind of an 'all over the place' witchcraft, with some basics that stay the same.
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« Reply #23: May 13, 2010, 03:25:06 am »

... Hebrew is the official language of Israel, and Arabic is the official language of a bunch of countries.  Yes, the religion is in that language too, but it's just plain THEIR LANGUAGE.  Not their religious language - just their language.
That's not entirely true. I know people who's language is Turkish and they do know Arabic because the Koran's original language is Arabic. Korans, bibles,... you can find them in any language, but a lot of people want to read the original. The same for Hebrew and Latin.
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« Reply #24: May 13, 2010, 03:31:13 am »

Well. You have to be specific about which witchcraft you want. There are a LOT of different forms in Africa. There's a specific Italian witchcraft, called  Stregheria.  The Pennsylvania Dutch have a Christianized witchcraft, called Pow-Wow. In Peru, there are 'witch-doctors' called brujos or curanderos.   Do you see what I mean? Magic-making is world-wide.  Paganism and witchcraft can go hand in hand, but you don't necessarily have magic in ALL pagan beliefs...
Well, I didn't knew that. I have been looking for something that fits my needs, and I decided to study witchcraft. I'm from Belgium, so I think that I feel the most connected to witchcraft in Europe. I don't know why but I associate witchcraft with Great Britain... Is there something like Celtic witchcraft or something? I'm a little bit puzzled. Something like "plain" witchcraft doesn't exists then? And so magic is different within each culture then? This is getting confusing...really.
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« Reply #25: May 13, 2010, 11:39:48 am »

That's not entirely true. I know people who's language is Turkish and they do know Arabic because the Koran's original language is Arabic. Korans, bibles,... you can find them in any language, but a lot of people want to read the original. The same for Hebrew and Latin.

IIRC, Mohammed looked at some of the stuff that had been going on with translations of other sacred texts and said, "PEOPLE.  THE ONLY REAL QUR'AN IS IN ARABIC.  All translations are interpretations."

He was a smart guy.
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« Reply #26: May 13, 2010, 05:11:48 pm »

IIRC, Mohammed looked at some of the stuff that had been going on with translations of other sacred texts and said, "PEOPLE.  THE ONLY REAL QUR'AN IS IN ARABIC.  All translations are interpretations."

Yep. Not sure about other religions, but Arabic actually is essential to Islamic revelation. So a number of schools observe some taboos when handling the (Arabic) Qur'an, which don't apply when handling tafseer (interpretations) in other languages.
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« Reply #27: May 13, 2010, 08:13:55 pm »

Well, I didn't knew that. I have been looking for something that fits my needs, and I decided to study witchcraft. I'm from Belgium, so I think that I feel the most connected to witchcraft in Europe. I don't know why but I associate witchcraft with Great Britain... Is there something like Celtic witchcraft or something? I'm a little bit puzzled. Something like "plain" witchcraft doesn't exists then? And so magic is different within each culture then? This is getting confusing...really.

Your decision to research and practice witchcraft is good. Smiley  At this point I would recommending a bit more reading, because it seems right now that you don't have quite a good grasp at what you are trying to learn or say.  I'm not trying to discourage you, rather I am hoping you will go out and get all those fabulous books and a journal so you can sort out all of this information.  There are excellent articles here at TC as well as threads that discuss recommended books for beginners.  You may also want to take a look at the book review section to help you get a feel for what types of material you will be getting into.  I hope that with your reading you will no longer be confused and that you will grow as a spiritual person.

In response to your question about language and ritual, I would like to add my two cents.  I think speaking other languages (my native tongue is American English) is beautiful and moving.  Also, I think it adds more to the ritual because you are putting more time into it.  I would love to speak Irish Gaelic in my rituals, but I'm still working on the pronunciation!

Also you mentioned something about the official language of witchcraft.  Witchcraft really doesn't have an official language, rather it is dependant on the person.  Witchcraft is one of those things that is highly adaptable and can mean many different things--again based on the individual.

Finally, if you are interested in the "Celtic" side of things, head on over to Hazel and Oak, TC's very own Celtic SIG.  There are a lot of threads that can help you get started in your search.

Good Luck to you!
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« Reply #28: May 14, 2010, 06:44:32 am »

Your decision to research and practice witchcraft is good. Smiley  At this point I would recommending a bit more reading, because it seems right now that you don't have quite a good grasp at what you are trying to learn or say. 

I think that might be a good idea, I will certainly do that. I've bought some books a couple of years ago. I'm interested for quite a while, but now I decided to really study it. But I don't know whether they are good books. So I'd like your opinion on those two I already have here: How To Be A Real Witch by Deborah Gray. This one is a Dutch one (I can't find the translation for the title). But literally it says: The big Wicca manual by Pamela Ball & Michael Johnstone.
I will certainly look for other books, but I think I need to safe some pocket-money first!

I'm not trying to discourage you, rather I am hoping you will go out and get all those fabulous books and a journal so you can sort out all of this information.
No, you certainly don't discourage me! I know you're only trying to help and I appreciate it a lot. I think your right that it is important to know what you're dealing with, before trying to practice it. If I all knew those things, I wouldn't be asking anyway!

Also you mentioned something about the official language of witchcraft.  Witchcraft really doesn't have an official language, rather it is dependant on the person.  Witchcraft is one of those things that is highly adaptable and can mean many different things--again based on the individual.
Okay, apparently there isn't. But I could be possible, as I gave some examples of other religious systems. I'm pretty sure about that and Darkhawk was able to confirm this.

Finally, if you are interested in the "Celtic" side of things, head on over to Hazel and Oak, TC's very own Celtic SIG.  There are a lot of threads that can help you get started in your search.
When I have finished reading some books and information the Internet, this might be a nice place to continue my investigation...I still have a long way to go!
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« Reply #29: May 14, 2010, 08:50:15 am »

I think that might be a good idea, I will certainly do that. I've bought some books a couple of years ago. I'm interested for quite a while, but now I decided to really study it. But I don't know whether they are good books. So I'd like your opinion on those two I already have here: How To Be A Real Witch by Deborah Gray. This one is a Dutch one (I can't find the translation for the title). But literally it says: The big Wicca manual by Pamela Ball & Michael Johnstone.

I've never heard of those books, so I'm not much help.  You might want to start with _Drawing Down the Moon..._ by Margot Adler.  This book will give you an idea on the various forms of paganism and may help you discover other paths that you may or may not want to follow.  I've found that a lot of people recommend Scott Cunningham's books.  I've only read one of his books, but they are simple to read and follow.  There are a few problems though.  I don't think his history is quite accurate and I'm pretty sure that his work would be considered "Neo-wicca."  That's cool if you want to pursue it, but for me, I decided it wasn't right.

Robert Hutton's books would be a good source for accurate history.

Also, _Circle Within_ by Diane Sylvan was very helpful to me.  She is a more advanced writer, so basically you should know some of the Wiccan terminology before you read this.  Her book may help you cultivate a working practice.

There is an article around here about Scholarly Sources and Lookalikes.  You may want to check that out and save yourself some money.  I know I learned the hard way Smiley

Quote
I will certainly look for other books, but I think I need to safe some pocket-money first!

You may find some good internet sources, just be extra careful.  Also, check your library (especially a university library).  Sometimes if they don't have the book on the shelves, they can order it for you.

Quote
When I have finished reading some books and information the Internet, this might be a nice place to continue my investigation...I still have a long way to go!

Good!  We'll be happy to have you.
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