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Author Topic: Book of Shadows  (Read 17921 times)
rayne-beau
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« Reply #15: June 04, 2010, 03:24:40 am »

What is your source for this?

i first read it in the book 'buckland's complete book of witchcraft'. i have also seen it in a few other places that i cant remember right now.
but it seems to make the most scents to me.

do you ask cause you agree or dont agree?? just curious.  Grin
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« Reply #16: June 04, 2010, 06:59:22 am »

i first read it in the book 'buckland's complete book of witchcraft'. i have also seen it in a few other places that i cant remember right now.  but it seems to make the most scents to me.

do you ask cause you agree or dont agree?? just curious.  Grin

It doesn't really matter if I agree or not.  It's a question of historical accuracy.

What you wrote...

well nothing ever used to be written down it was all done by word of mouth until the 'dark' times when it became hard for covens to met and share information without being caught. so they started a book called 'the book of rites' and it was passed from coven to coven and more was added by each group.

... sounds suspiciously like the myth of "The Burning Times" that is so often cited as witchcraft history.  People who advance this pseudo-history claim that witchcraft and/or Wicca is actually an ancient religion that has been passed down through the generations in an unbroken line, and that at some point (in the medieval period, I think, but I don't really remember when it was supposed to have happened) these "true" witches were viciously persecuted.  The "burning times" thing refers to the idea that 9 million of these witches -- primarily women -- were put to death because of their religion.

This claim has been refuted.  Perhaps some of TC's history scholars will post into this thread and explain this in more detail than I can.

You didn't give a time frame for the "dark times" you referred to, so I'm not sure if you're citing this same theory or not.  That's why I asked for the source.
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« Reply #17: June 05, 2010, 10:42:48 am »

i first read it in the book 'buckland's complete book of witchcraft'. i have also seen it in a few other places that i cant remember right now.
but it seems to make the most scents to me.

do you ask cause you agree or dont agree?? just curious.  Grin

Yes, I thought that looked like Uncle Bucky....well The Big Blue Book as it is often referred to is a wonderful snapshot of what 'was believed to be the real history' at the time that Buckland wrote it. And like Gardner and others, Buckland did sincerely believe that this was the real history of (pagan) witchcraft. I certainly own a copy although it has been about twenty years since I last referenced it. The TBBB does contain some very useful information for practising Pagan Witches as well as some bits that sends experienced Witches into hysterical laughter.

Buckland's sources for validation can be found within the mythological history that is so utterly entwined with the actual history of Pagan Witchcraft. Both are essential but in my experience, when you cast the mythological into the role of actual history or visa versa, you disempower them both. Knowing both and what each are meant to do, strengthens your Craft. The actual history, logos if you like, is meant to inform us modern Witches of how the nuts and bolts of what we call Pagan Witchcraft were fitted together and why. That lets us and our Trads change and adapt earlier information in more meaningful ways. The mythological history or mythos is composed of layers of stories about what ‘may have happened once and is happening now in many ways’. This history is meant to inspire, teach, resonate emotionally and encompass the greater questions like the meaning of life, death and morality.

I hope you won’t mind but I’m going to use your earlier post to illustrate what I mean. This is a stream of consciousness as I go through what Uncle Bucky passed on to you.

“well nothing ever used to be written down it was all done by word of mouth”
Logos
 - Witchcraft – English word with varying and debated etymologies. Almost universally negative in all usages until Gardner redefined it in the 1930’s as a positive life-craft.
- Beyond the UPG of Gardner as well as discredited authors such as Murray or Leland, there is no historical proof of witchcraft existing historically as a shared religion, faith or as a secret tradition(s).
- Most of the sources for what we ascribe to Pagan Witchcraft today can and have been traced back to a diversity of written sources, folklore, academic interpretations, pseudo-history, occult fiction.
Mythological
- Contains the concept that ‘pagan’ witchcraft is passed down orally, which in the BTW (original) Pagan Witchcraft Trads, does happen through lineaged transmission from teacher to student. These Trads however were created first through writing in the 20th century and each Tradition’s BOS had to be hand copied out by a student as part of his/her training.
- Refers to the ‘secret suppressed pagan religion known as witchcraft’ that traces back in part to the writings of Jules Michelet’s pseudo-history in the 19th century. Used by later authors as validated history.
- Promotes the persecution complex that was the underlying theme of the Second Paganism Movement, a literary movement 19th century and prior to that was a campaign against Catholicism.

“until the 'dark' times when it became hard for covens to met and share information without being caught.”
Logos
- The ‘dark times’ is a common reference to the Burning Times mythos, that links a medieval inquisition into Christian heresies to 20th century Pagan ‘witches’.
- coven is said to be a shortening of covenant or covend (Middle English, Old French) that came to be used as the term for any (midnight) gathering of witches.. This was based on the body of superstitions associated with the medieval Christian definition used within the Inquisition. To covenant meant entering into an agreement with another, a contract, which is how the relationship between ‘witches’ and the Devil were said to be formalised. Thus by the 1500, coven or covin had acquired a meaning of a gathering, especially of witches. Gardner used this term for structuring his conceived Religion of Witchcraft.
- Since 1735 in England, anyone who pretended to be able to foretell the future, cast spells or call up spirits were fined and jailed as vagrants or con-artists. All activities pursued by the cunning Christian folk against (evil) witches that Gardner borrowed to attribute to his redefinition of witchcraft. The medieval definition of consorting with evil spirits (or the Devil) and being killed  for this was no longer valid within England. In 1951, the Witchcraft Act was repealed, mostly due to the efforts of Spiritualists who were fighting against mediums and psychics being considered illegal activities.
- While Gardner’s Religion of Witchcraft had been conceived some years earlier, its presence were too small to matter legally. There were few existing covens as well even after Alexandrian BTW evolved until basics began to be published in the 1960’s.
Mythos
- Promotes ‘ancient/medieval’ mythological history by suggesting that (Pagan) witches existed before the Inquisition and in sufficient numbers to have had multiple covens. 
- Promotes the Burning Times concept that (Pagan) witches were the ones being targeted and persecuted.
- The 161 Laws from Gardnerian BTW (or Wicca) are definitely a source, written in the 20th century from the perspective of the Burning Times mythos.   

“ so they started a book called 'the book of rites' and it was passed from coven to coven and more was added by each group.”
Logos
- Christian prayer books and Catholic liturgical books were often referred to as ‘book of rites’. May be where Buckland got that.
- In Pagan Witchcraft Traditions, each Trad’s BOS is never shared with another Trad. If a Wiccan coven hives, then the daughter covens will be comprised of members of the original coven and thus most likely have a copy of the original BOS.
Mythos
-Promotes the concept that (Pagan) Witchcraft historically was a singular faith where all covens knew each other.
- Usually considered to be Buckland’s version to differentiate himself from BTW.
 
“the name got changed to 'the book of shadows' because it used to get passed along under the cover of darkness 'shadows' so they couldn't be seen.”
Logos
Doreen Valiente, a student of Gardner’s documented where he sourced the name ‘the Book of Shadows’.
Mythos
Promotes more of the Burning Times mythological history. 

Apologies to all, a rather long winded post, I'm afraid. If nothing else, it is my hope this will prompt further curiosity, if only to refute or debate what I've written. Both histories are fascinating but to me, never so much as when they are being accessed as they were meant to be experienced. My mileage.

Amber
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« Reply #18: June 06, 2010, 09:48:50 am »

Apologies to all, a rather long winded post, I'm afraid. If nothing else, it is my hope this will prompt further curiosity, if only to refute or debate what I've written. Both histories are fascinating but to me, never so much as when they are being accessed as they were meant to be experienced.
<chuckle> Saves me writing an even more long-winded post - I can't suppress the impulse to go into more detail when I talk about it, but you're really good with the quick'n-dirty-but-thorough tour.

A couple of very small quibbles:

Buckland's sources for validation can be found within the mythological history...
I think "mythic" ("relating to or having the nature of myth") would be a more exact term here than "mythological" ("of or relating to mythology; dealt with in myths") - not a big deal, since "mythological" isn't wrong; it just makes me itch a bit.

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... a literary movement 19th century and prior to that was a campaign against Catholicism.
I'd characterize the literary pagan movement of the 17th-19th centuries as being mainly a campaign against industrialization, though the anti-industrialists (whether or not they were also pagan revivalists) did show a lot of anti-Catholic bias.

That's neither here nor there to your main points; if I parsed that bit right, you only brought that up to clarify why you were referring to the mid-20th-century pagan movement as "second" (well, and possibly to pique interest in that aspect of the history as well, since the Romantic revivalists were definitely seminal to the 20th century developments).

Sunflower
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« Reply #19: June 06, 2010, 10:26:56 am »

Saves me writing an even more long-winded post - I can't suppress the impulse to go into more detail when I talk about it, but you're really good with the quick'n-dirty-but-thorough tour.

Do we have an essay on this anywhere?  I looked for one when I was responding to rayn-beau's post, but I struck out.

If we don't, *someone* (hint, hint  Wink ) should consider writing one so we have the facts in a nice tidy package that we can link to when this topic comes up.
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« Reply #20: June 07, 2010, 07:11:45 pm »

Do we have an essay on this anywhere?  I looked for one when I was responding to rayn-beau's post, but I struck out.

If we don't, *someone* (hint, hint  Wink ) should consider writing one so we have the facts in a nice tidy package that we can link to when this topic comes up.
I think we probably have essays that touch on one or another piece of that, but I don't know if there's a "nice tidy package" - usually when it's come up, it's come up in a way that involves correcting one or two specific errors and citing Hutton for further info.  But AmberHeart has done point-form tours twice now (both in this thread, I see, which I should have checked on before I posted my quibbles) so it's clear that there's a need for more.  I'll see if I can find anything good either in our Articles Library or elsewhere on the 'Net, but I don't recall ever seeing one that both covered the factual history, and did much to acknowledge why/how the mythic history matters even when it's factually nonsensical (something both AH and I value), so I'm pretty sure there's a gap that could do with filling.

That job probably has either AmberHeart's or my name on it, or both, since we're the history-of-the-movement geeks around here - I've noticed that she and I differ a bit on emphases and interpretations, so we'd probably butt heads some if we collaborated, but that's also likely to lead to a better end result.  I'm fine with either leaving it to her, doing it myself, or collaborating - AmberHeart, what are your thoughts on that?

Sunflower
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« Reply #21: June 07, 2010, 07:26:40 pm »

I'd characterize the literary pagan movement of the 17th-19th centuries as being mainly a campaign against industrialization, though the anti-industrialists (whether or not they were also pagan revivalists) did show a lot of anti-Catholic bias.

(both in this thread, I see, which I should have checked on before I posted my quibbles)
And now I have checked, and see that your earlier "quick tour" post covered that - basically, we were thinking of different aspects of what was going on at the time (in oversimplified terms, I was focused too tightly on the English part of the movement, and not thinking about the largely-Continental aspects you were referring to).

Sunflower
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« Reply #22: June 08, 2010, 07:14:14 am »

I think "mythic" ("relating to or having the nature of myth") would be a more exact term here than "mythological" ("of or relating to mythology; dealt with in myths") - not a big deal, since "mythological" isn't wrong; it just makes me itch a bit.

Excellent point though. I shall switch to using mythic instead as it is closer to what I am referring to.

Thanks Sunflower
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« Reply #23: June 08, 2010, 07:17:59 am »

<chuckle>

That's neither here nor there to your main points; if I parsed that bit right, you only brought that up to clarify why you were referring to the mid-20th-century pagan movement as "second" (well, and possibly to pique interest in that aspect of the history as well, since the Romantic revivalists were definitely seminal to the 20th century developments).

Sunflower

Missed that before I hit post.

I consider the 20th century Pagan Movement to be the third, not second of these in the Western stream of transmissions. There was an scholarly attempt during the first two centuries of Christianity to align theology with Greek science that was also called the Paganism Movement.

Amber
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« Reply #24: June 08, 2010, 07:37:23 am »

I think we probably have essays that touch on one or another piece of that, but I don't know if there's a "nice tidy package" - usually when it's come up, it's come up in a way that involves correcting one or two specific errors and citing Hutton for further info.  But AmberHeart has done point-form tours twice now (both in this thread, I see, which I should have checked on before I posted my quibbles) so it's clear that there's a need for more.  I'll see if I can find anything good either in our Articles Library or elsewhere on the 'Net, but I don't recall ever seeing one that both covered the factual history, and did much to acknowledge why/how the mythic history matters even when it's factually nonsensical (something both AH and I value), so I'm pretty sure there's a gap that could do with filling.

That job probably has either AmberHeart's or my name on it, or both, since we're the history-of-the-movement geeks around here - I've noticed that she and I differ a bit on emphases and interpretations, so we'd probably butt heads some if we collaborated, but that's also likely to lead to a better end result.  I'm fine with either leaving it to her, doing it myself, or collaborating - AmberHeart, what are your thoughts on that?

Sunflower

There is an article library? Oh....clearly I haven't rummaged around here enough.

Collarobation would definitely be my preference. Not sure how the logistics of that work so please enlighten, if you wouldn't mind. My time is a bit funky until next week (opening my cottage up this weekend) but then I'm good to start beavering away.

First my preference because I get to learn from you.  Wink

Second, I just embarked on what in my Trad we call a pathworking. This one specifically is to scrap off the calcification of complascency about what I think I know so well. I've been a Goddess Scholar (in my Trad) for too many years now and gotten a bit too practiced at reguritation whenever any opportunity presents itself.  I asked my Gods for a bit of ass-kicking to get me started down this new pathworking and well,  Roll Eyes always be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

Amber

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« Reply #25: June 10, 2010, 12:01:39 am »

There is an article library? Oh....clearly I haven't rummaged around here enough.
It's not as easy to find as it used to be - it (and a long, long list of other things) used to be in the left-hand sidebar, but it made for a very cluttered page; now you get to it (and, again, lots of other things) from the dropdown menu bar right under the site logo.  Or have it come up in a forum convo, in which someone posts a direct link Cheesy.

Quote
Collarobation would definitely be my preference. Not sure how the logistics of that work so please enlighten, if you wouldn't mind. My time is a bit funky until next week (opening my cottage up this weekend) but then I'm good to start beavering away.
Speaking generally, there are various ways the logistics of collaboration, dependent on the subject matter and on the needs/preferences of the collaborators.  In this instance, I think our first step is to figure out what the scope of the article should be - drop me a PM once you're back from your weekend, and we'll start that convo.  In the meantime, I'll be doing what I mentioned earlier, looking for related articles here and elsewhere, because we might well want them for reference/citation; if your time allows and you want to, you can be doing similar preliminary stuff.

Quote
First my preference because I get to learn from you.  Wink

Second, I just embarked on what in my Trad we call a pathworking. This one specifically is to scrap off the calcification of complascency about what I think I know so well. I've been a Goddess Scholar (in my Trad) for too many years now and gotten a bit too practiced at reguritation whenever any opportunity presents itself.  I asked my Gods for a bit of ass-kicking to get me started down this new pathworking and well,  Roll Eyes always be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
I like these reasons!  I'm looking forward to learning from you, too, since I've already noticed that we've explored some different aspects of the subject.  And I know about that "calcification" when one is too used to one's familiarity with an area of knowledge!

Sunflower
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« Reply #26: June 10, 2010, 12:12:37 am »


This sounds really promising.  I'm looking forward to reading what y'all come up with.

If there's any way I can help, please let me know.
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« Reply #27: June 10, 2010, 07:49:10 am »

It's not as easy to find as it used to be - it (and a long, long list of other things) used to be in the left-hand sidebar, but it made for a very cluttered page; now you get to it (and, again, lots of other things) from the dropdown menu bar right under the site logo.  Or have it come up in a forum convo, in which someone posts a direct link Cheesy.
Speaking generally, there are various ways the logistics of collaboration, dependent on the subject matter and on the needs/preferences of the collaborators.  In this instance, I think our first step is to figure out what the scope of the article should be - drop me a PM once you're back from your weekend, and we'll start that convo.  In the meantime, I'll be doing what I mentioned earlier, looking for related articles here and elsewhere, because we might well want them for reference/citation; if your time allows and you want to, you can be doing similar preliminary stuff.
I like these reasons!  I'm looking forward to learning from you, too, since I've already noticed that we've explored some different aspects of the subject.  And I know about that "calcification" when one is too used to one's familiarity with an area of knowledge!

Sunflower

sounds lovely....found the library archives, thank you very much....however how does one 'drop someone a PM' around here?

Suspect that is something else I 'should' know but my brain isn't wrapping around tech stuff lately.  Embarrassed

Amber

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« Reply #28: June 10, 2010, 07:53:15 am »

sounds lovely....found the library archives, thank you very much....however how does one 'drop someone a PM' around here?

If you look over to the left of any message, in the column of stuff under the poster's name, down near the bottom of the column there should be a row of icons.  (How many depends on settings the poster has set, like whether they have a Facebook account put in their profile or etc.)  One of those looks like a little speech bubble, and if you hover over it you should get a little thing that says something like, "Personal Message".  Click that to send a PM.
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« Reply #29: June 15, 2010, 06:21:32 am »

Meown,

 Well your post certainly takes me back a few decades. Been there, remember being in this place so well despite all the time that has passed. One of the fundamentals of being a Pagan Witch in any tradition is life-long learning. I pursue that everyday and I try to help younger Witches do so as well. So please take the following as some of the conclusions that many years of study had brought me to. Your mileage differs, I respect that. I simply offer the following signposts for further study in the hope you might go researching further and deepen your Craft-ing.


I'm sorry for providing wrong information, but I already said that I didn't know if it was true. Through the years I have read a lot (not only pagan stuff). So it was a story I remembered.
I didn't want to be the smarty-pants, I just wanted to help. I have the feeling people are much annoyed by my post. I had no idea it wasn't true. Maybe I should shut my mouth when I'm not sure a 100%. I'm sorry... anyway, thanks for correcting my mistakes

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