Bill aims to strip certain Americans of their citizenship

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[LyricFox]

Bill aims to strip certain Americans of their citizenship

Washington (CNN) -- A bipartisan group of legislators on Thursday introduced legislation in Congress to strip citizenship from any American found to be involved in terrorism.

If the Terrorist Expatriation Act passes, an American would lose citizenship if found to have provided material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization -- as designated by the secretary of state -- or participated in actions against the United States

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/06/terrorism.act.change/index.html?eref=rss_politics&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+Politics%29

[sailor_tech]

Bill aims to strip certain Americans of their citizenship

Washington (CNN) -- A bipartisan group of legislators on Thursday introduced legislation in Congress to strip citizenship from any American found to be involved in terrorism.

If the Terrorist Expatriation Act passes, an American would lose citizenship if found to have provided material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization -- as designated by the secretary of state -- or participated in actions against the United States

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/06/terrorism.act.change/index.html?eref=rss_politics&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+Politics%29

As initially presented on CNN a day or so ago it would have been unconstitional since it would strip citizenship of naturalized citizens Prior to conviction.

[LyricFox]

As initially presented on CNN a day or so ago it would have been unconstitional since it would strip citizenship of naturalized citizens Prior to conviction.

That's part of what just stumps the hell out of me. That and the idea that you shouldn't Mirandize the people.

[Juni]

These people need to take another look at the 14th Amendment. And get their heads out of their asses.

[Rowanfox]

As initially presented on CNN a day or so ago it would have been unconstitional since it would strip citizenship of naturalized citizens Prior to conviction.

Unfortunately, from an outsider's point of view, America seems to have adopted a guilty until proven innocent policy when it comes to terrorism.

On the other hand, I really don't blame them. Some joker trying to blow up Time square, then getting caught fleeing the country, isn't really much of a citizen anyway.

Canada and the US are made up of mostly immigrants; but I don't think too many of our ancestors went out of their way to destroy the stability of our nations. in fact. most are very proud to be Canadian or American. They often came with nothing but their dreams and a hard work ethic. However, for some reason, the most recent groups of immigrants have come (to Canada, at least) and brought more than that. Some bring old grudges, prejudices, and hatred. Some bring a penchant for violence, civil disobedience, or terrorism. They come not to make a new life in a new home, but to take advantage of economic or educational advantages to promote their own personal or political agendas.

In light of this new reality, small wonder that some would choose to simply revoke the privilage citizenship offers to those who would take advantage.

The Canada (or America),  love it or leave it campaigners are likely to become the non-silent majority soon.

And really, when did patriotism and law-abiding become dirty words?

[Melamphoros]

If the Terrorist Expatriation Act passes, an American would lose citizenship if found to have provided material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization -- as designated by the secretary of state -- or participated in actions against the United States

(bolding mine)

In all fairness, why does this apply only to naturalized citizans foreign terrorist organizations?  Shouldn't it also apply to naturally born citizans and domestic terrorism?  Oh wait, I forgot that the "T" word is not to be used unless the people are brown and pray facing Mecca

But yeah, from what I can tell this is completely unconstiutional.

[Kasmira]

(bolding mine)

In all fairness, why does this apply only to naturalized citizans foreign terrorist organizations?  Shouldn't it also apply to naturally born citizans and domestic terrorism?  Oh wait, I forgot that the "T" word is not to be used unless the people are brown and pray facing Mecca

But yeah, from what I can tell this is completely unconstiutional.

That. And, how are we defining terrorist organization again?

[Sine Silvering]

(bolding mine)

In all fairness, why does this apply only to naturalized citizans foreign terrorist organizations?  Shouldn't it also apply to naturally born citizans and domestic terrorism?  Oh wait, I forgot that the "T" word is not to be used unless the people are brown and pray facing Mecca

But yeah, from what I can tell this is completely unconstiutional.

Hmm.  Does it apply only to naturalized citizens? I haven't seen the text of the bill, and the radio only said a couple of sentences about it.  I have to say that one of the first thoughts I had about the Times Square bomber was that he had entered into American citizenship under false pretenses, and that the citizenship ought to be revoked.

Unconstitutional?  What section would you cite to back that up?  Most countries have a mechanism under which they can revoke naturalized citizenship for cause.  I'd want it to happen AFTER conviction for a terrorist act; that's only fair.  Then they can serve their time in Supermax and then get shipped back to Ireland or Chechnya or Iran or wherever.

Although, to be fair, the Irish terrorist problem seems dormant right now. 

Would there have been any point in revoking the citizenship of Timothy McVeigh?  Possibly; he was a veteran, and while he clearly had a problem with the federal government, he claimed to love his country.  Revoking his citizenship might have hurt him worse than that final needle...

JMNSHO; YMMV.

[sailor_tech]

(bolding mine)

In all fairness, why does this apply only to naturalized citizans foreign terrorist organizations?  Shouldn't it also apply to naturally born citizans and domestic terrorism?  Oh wait, I forgot that the "T" word is not to be used unless the people are brown and pray facing Mecca

But yeah, from what I can tell this is completely unconstiutional.

To echo Sine, does this apply only to naturalized citizens?

Ties to a foreign terrorist organization is in line with existing US law. If a US citizen were to join the Canadian army they'd lose their citizenship. The foreign army doesn't have to be at war with us, nor even at war with one of our allies.

The big change is in adding terrorism. It is a step towards realizing that the Westphalian model is failing as far as non-state actors.

[RandallS]

Hmm.  Does it apply only to naturalized citizens?

I don't think it can apply to natural born citizens. I don't think Congress has the authority to to strip citizenship from those born here. At least I don't see it listed in their powers in the Constitution (nor can I think of an amendment that would allow them to do so). The only related power I see is "to establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization" which might be construed to allow them to strip citizenship from naturalized citizens, but would not give them the power to strip it from natural born citizens, especially as Section 1 of 14th Amendment begins by clearly stating "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein the reside."

[sailor_tech]

I don't think it can apply to natural born citizens. I don't think Congress has the authority to to strip citizenship from those born here. At least I don't see it listed in their powers in the Constitution (nor can I think of an amendment that would allow them to do so). The only related power I see is "to establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization" which might be construed to allow them to strip citizenship from naturalized citizens, but would not give them the power to strip it from natural born citizens, especially as Section 1 of 14th Amendment begins by clearly stating "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein the reside."

Link to bill from Lieberman's Senate site:
http://lieberman.senate.gov/assets/pdf/TEA_full.pdf

Link that is supposed to (I haven't read all of it)  explain what is required for a person to be stripped of their citizenship. Seems to apply to both native born and naturalized.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=444&invol=252

[UlsterYank]

If the Terrorist Expatriation Act passes, an American would lose citizenship if found to have provided material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization

I hope that includes all of the internet clowns that support the IRA as well. There were plenty of Americans that funded them, until 9/11.

[sailor_tech]

I hope that includes all of the internet clowns that support the IRA as well. There were plenty of Americans that funded them, until 9/11.

It would cover any new support offered.

Which raises the question of how did the US handle IRA supporters before. I doubt we were about to give a free pass to any American that made it back to the US after attacking UK forces.

[RandallS]

Link that is supposed to (I haven't read all of it)  explain what is required for a person to be stripped of their citizenship. Seems to apply to both native born and naturalized.

From a very quick look, I suspect major parts would be unconstitutional for various reasons.

[tinapo85]

It would cover any new support offered.

Which raises the question of how did the US handle IRA supporters before. I doubt we were about to give a free pass to any American that made it back to the US after attacking UK forces.

IRA supporters in the US were monitored before, I don't think there was any penalty, but they knew who was an IRA supporter.

After 9/11 many were put on no fly lists and dubbed terrorists as well.

They also put known domestic terrorists on those lists.

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