The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
April 23, 2021, 02:13:26 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 23, 2021, 02:13:26 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Arizona and Immigration  (Read 15989 times)
K2Fan
Senior Newbie
*
Last Login:July 31, 2010, 02:55:43 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Witch
Posts: 14

Gravatar

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: May 12, 2010, 04:43:30 pm »

(Hope this is the right place to put this, 'cause I think it is...)

Okay!  So, recently, there have been quite a few new pieces of legislature in Arizona that have been passed and signed into law.  The most recent is HB 2281, which seeks to ban and stop the ethnic studies/La Raza program being taught at Tucson High (and which was going to be taught at Pueblo next year, I believe).  Students at Tucson High protested the bill last week with a 24 hour vigil starting at 4 pm Thursday and, obviously, ending on Friday.  The other bill, which has received more national media coverage, is the immigration bill SB 1070.  SB 1070 requires police officers to ask those who are 'reasonably suspicious' for documentation.  The debate's pretty hot here in AZ, and in Tucson HB 2281 is causing a lot of name-calling and anger (from both sides). 

I was wondering what you guys thought of these bills, any opinions you have.  It'd be wonderful to hear from other people outside of AZ. 
Logged

† you are my other self. if i hate you, i hate myself. if i love you, i love myself †
"when we're in this classroom and we talk about loving each other!  well...that, They just can't understand."
♪QUE◦Z◦TAL♫

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Melamphoros
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:March 28, 2015, 11:01:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: Informed Eclectic with Hellenic Overtones
TCN ID: Melamphoros
Posts: 13621


Kiss My Scythe

Blog entries (0)


« Reply #1: May 12, 2010, 04:49:54 pm »

I was wondering what you guys thought of these bills, any opinions you have.  It'd be wonderful to hear from other people outside of AZ. 

I have only heard of HB 2281 now, but coupled with the infamous immigration bill, I think AZ is being more than a little bit racist.  Looking "reasonably suspicious" just reeks of racial profiling and I think that the national outrage over it is entirely justified, imo.
Logged



Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog
K2Fan
Senior Newbie
*
Last Login:July 31, 2010, 02:55:43 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Witch
Posts: 14

Gravatar

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: May 12, 2010, 05:05:51 pm »

I have only heard of HB 2281 now, but coupled with the infamous immigration bill, I think AZ is being more than a little bit racist.  Looking "reasonably suspicious" just reeks of racial profiling and I think that the national outrage over it is entirely justified, imo.

I'm gonna sound like a momma's boy when I say this, but I will anyway...

My mother recently attended a lawyer-type information thing concerning SB1070 at the UofA law school.  I couldn't attend with her, but she had some interesting stories when she came back.  A lot of the laws that the bill uses involve documentation.  She explained it to me like this,

"They're saying that if you don't have documents you're breaking this law.  But you can't break that law because to break that law you have to have documentation but not keep it up to date..."

Which I thought was interesting.  Apparently (this is all hearsay, after all), a lot of the laws referenced or whatever in the bill are similar to that.  Immigration law is confusing and all mucked up, according to the other lawyers I know who've studied it, but there are laws that involve immigrants without documentation.  And the new bill doesn't cite many of them.

And concerning the racism (again, this info is from my mother), the bill has been changed a bit...but not for the better.  Race can still be used when deciding 'reasonable suspicion'.  

Being in the La Raza program and white, it's disappointing to me that HB 2281 hasn't gotten more press coverage, even in Tucson.  I go to class everyday with Mexican Catholic kids that could easily turn on me, bully me, and make my life hell (because I'm one of the few white kids, because I'm openly Pagan, because I'm just socially awkward).  And they are some of the best people I've ever met in my high school career, compassionate and understanding.  I'll be very disappointed if I can't return to the same environment next year, as I intended to.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 05:08:02 pm by K2Fan » Logged

† you are my other self. if i hate you, i hate myself. if i love you, i love myself †
"when we're in this classroom and we talk about loving each other!  well...that, They just can't understand."
♪QUE◦Z◦TAL♫
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #3: May 12, 2010, 05:31:17 pm »

(Hope this is the right place to put this, 'cause I think it is...)

Okay!  So, recently, there have been quite a few new pieces of legislature in Arizona that have been passed and signed into law.  The most recent is HB 2281, which seeks to ban and stop the ethnic studies/La Raza program being taught at Tucson High (and which was going to be taught at Pueblo next year, I believe).  Students at Tucson High protested the bill last week with a 24 hour vigil starting at 4 pm Thursday and, obviously, ending on Friday.  The other bill, which has received more national media coverage, is the immigration bill SB 1070.  SB 1070 requires police officers to ask those who are 'reasonably suspicious' for documentation.  The debate's pretty hot here in AZ, and in Tucson HB 2281 is causing a lot of name-calling and anger (from both sides). 

I was wondering what you guys thought of these bills, any opinions you have.  It'd be wonderful to hear from other people outside of AZ. 

I find the whole thing flat-out horrifying.

What are they gonna do with people from, say, Puerto Rico?  they might not "look" right, but they're American citizens.  Not that it's EVER right to judge on skin color .. especially for something like that.  People are going to get illegal paperwork, and the legal people that don't have it on them (or are citizens!) are the ones that are going to get hurt.

I mean, really .. who carries proof of citizenship WITH them in a country where they live?  Really?
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #4: May 12, 2010, 05:37:17 pm »

The most recent is HB 2281, which seeks to ban and stop the ethnic studies/La Raza program being taught at Tucson High (and which was going to be taught at Pueblo next year, I believe).  Students at Tucson High protested the bill last week with a 24 hour vigil starting at 4 pm Thursday and, obviously, ending on Friday.

I haven't heard of this one, but it sounds stupid to me. I spent most of my life in San Antonio, TX where the population is about 60% Hispanic, 30% White, and 10% Black. The cultures mixed just fine so I have a real problem understanding people who think there is something wrong with that or who somehow think learning about or celebrating another culture is somehow bad.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
K2Fan
Senior Newbie
*
Last Login:July 31, 2010, 02:55:43 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Witch
Posts: 14

Gravatar

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: May 12, 2010, 05:53:18 pm »

I haven't heard of this one, but it sounds stupid to me. I spent most of my life in San Antonio, TX where the population is about 60% Hispanic, 30% White, and 10% Black. The cultures mixed just fine so I have a real problem understanding people who think there is something wrong with that or who somehow think learning about or celebrating another culture is somehow bad.

Tom Horne, who has been trying to get this legislature passed for years, says that they are 'teaching racism' as well as teaching us how to overthrow the government. 

One of the quotes in my signature is from our Chicano Literature teacher, who was talking with us about what Horne was saying.  He was going on a mini-rant (which are quite cute) and saying that, "Yes, yes.  We are definitely racist and teaching you to hate others!  They come in here and see us saying that we love each other!  That is wrong!"  He's repeated this sentiment many times, since it always gets us to chuckle sadly. 

It's true though...the first thing we say each day is a poem by Luis Valdez about loving everyone.  I'm, of course, blowing my own horn here a little because I think the classes are fabulous. 

I'm not sure exactly what our problem here is in AZ.  Apart from hatred.  It could be a lack of education on the issues that leads people to believe bills like these are good, but with all the arguments I've been getting in even education doesn't seem to help.  I feel (and I think a lot of my classmates feel this way too) like we can't do much more to get our voice heard. 
Logged

† you are my other self. if i hate you, i hate myself. if i love you, i love myself †
"when we're in this classroom and we talk about loving each other!  well...that, They just can't understand."
♪QUE◦Z◦TAL♫
LyricFox
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 04, 2011, 02:39:11 pm
United States United States

Religion: Lapsed Hellenic Reconstructionist
Posts: 8959


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #6: May 12, 2010, 05:55:00 pm »

I find the whole thing flat-out horrifying.

What are they gonna do with people from, say, Puerto Rico?  they might not "look" right, but they're American citizens.  Not that it's EVER right to judge on skin color .. especially for something like that.  People are going to get illegal paperwork, and the legal people that don't have it on them (or are citizens!) are the ones that are going to get hurt.

I mean, really .. who carries proof of citizenship WITH them in a country where they live?  Really?
I love what Arnold Schwarzenegger said a day or so ago about deciding to not give a speech in Arizona because with his accent, he was afraid they'd deport him.
Logged

Visit The Breast Cancer Site & Click to fund free Mammograms
Hosts' Store: Doxy's Bazaar (w/Pagan Items)
Need Web Hosting? See The Cheap Web Hosting Report
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #7: May 12, 2010, 05:56:00 pm »



I mean, really .. who carries proof of citizenship WITH them in a country where they live?  Really?

Most adults in the US do. It's called a driver's license if it's recently issued.

Logged
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #8: May 12, 2010, 06:01:45 pm »

Most adults in the US do. It's called a driver's license if it's recently issued.



It's not proof of citizenship.  My husband has one, and he's not a citizen.
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: May 12, 2010, 06:13:46 pm »

It's not proof of citizenship.  My husband has one, and he's not a citizen.

Depends upon when issued and where. Newer ones in many states will state what the person's citizenship status is. A non-citizen who is legally in the US will have a different code than a citizen.

Take a close look at yours and your husbands for differnces. I don't know what state you are in, so I can't find specific info.

Logged
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #10: May 12, 2010, 10:13:58 pm »

Tom Horne, who has been trying to get this legislature passed for years, says that they are 'teaching racism' as well as teaching us how to overthrow the government. 

::rolling eyes:: BTW, who is Tom Horne?
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
stephyjh
Master Member
****
*
Last Login:October 01, 2013, 01:56:16 am
Virgin Islands, U.S. Virgin Islands, U.S.

Religion: Celtic polytheist with Native American influences
TCN ID: stephyjh
Posts: 749


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: May 12, 2010, 11:23:46 pm »

Depends upon when issued and where. Newer ones in many states will state what the person's citizenship status is. A non-citizen who is legally in the US will have a different code than a citizen.

Take a close look at yours and your husbands for differnces. I don't know what state you are in, so I can't find specific info.



North Carolina licenses show no difference--I'm sitting here right now with my own in one hand and an undocumented friend's in the other. If they were legal proof of citizenship, they'd be eligible to be listed in Column A on the W-9 form for payroll withholding. As it is, they're in Column B, which only confirms identity OR eligibility to work, not both. The only document I can think of off the top of my head that is in Column A is a US passport, but there may be others. Not sure.

What I find interesting, in light of recent events, is that in 1924 the Indian Citizenship Act was passed by Congress, declaring all Native Americans US Citizenship. (Duh? But I digress.) It wasn't until 1948 that Native Americans were able to vote in all states. The two last holdouts were New Mexico and...wait for it...

Arizona.
Logged

Thorn
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 05, 2012, 07:09:15 pm
United States United States

Religion: Ecclectic pagan
Posts: 838


Avatar by sp-studio.com

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: May 12, 2010, 11:27:27 pm »

I just so love my adopted home. [/sarcasm]

I'll often find myself spewing animosity from the left, so I'll keep this post short to avoid that.  Hadn't heard of HB2281 but am not terribly surprised.

SB 1070 requires police officers to ask those who are 'reasonably suspicious' for documentation. 

My sweetie, who is about the whitest man you will ever meet, has decided that if he ever gets pulled over for a traffic ticket he's going to put on the strongest Irish accent he can.  (It's the one he can do most convincingly - we know tons of Irish immigrants through his work.  Not all of them, I suspect, legal.)  Then, if no one asks to see his proof of citizenship, he's going to do a write up for the paper.

We live in a largely Hispanic neighborhood in Phoenix, and it's the best, friendliest neighborhood we've lived in since we've moved here.  (Of course, it could qualify for that just by not  having a crack house down the block, so it's not really saying a lot I guess.)
Logged
K2Fan
Senior Newbie
*
Last Login:July 31, 2010, 02:55:43 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Witch
Posts: 14

Gravatar

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: May 12, 2010, 11:30:29 pm »

::rolling eyes:: BTW, who is Tom Horne?

He's our State Superintendent of Public Instruction... 
Logged

† you are my other self. if i hate you, i hate myself. if i love you, i love myself †
"when we're in this classroom and we talk about loving each other!  well...that, They just can't understand."
♪QUE◦Z◦TAL♫
Thorn
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 05, 2012, 07:09:15 pm
United States United States

Religion: Ecclectic pagan
Posts: 838


Avatar by sp-studio.com

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: May 12, 2010, 11:34:56 pm »

He's our State Superintendent of Public Instruction... 
And running for state Attorney General.

His website features his spin on the Ethnic Studies program front and center.  I don't have time to look it over tonight, but if anyone wants to, here it is:    http://www.electtomhorne.com/ 
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Immigration raids tend to spare employers « 1 2 »
Non-Religious News
LyricFox 20 4981 Last post June 03, 2008, 06:13:47 pm
by RandallS
Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals « 1 2 »
Non-Religious News
LyricFox 26 6530 Last post June 17, 2010, 04:29:57 pm
by Sperran
Arizona's immigration law drafted to fund private prison industry. « 1 2 »
Political Discussions
Sperran 20 6908 Last post October 30, 2010, 07:31:15 am
by sailor_tech
Immigration Officer fired after putting wife on no-fly list « 1 2 »
Non-Religious News
veggiewolf 20 4621 Last post March 02, 2011, 01:37:50 pm
by Castus
Ariz. Senate rejects illegal immigration bills
Non-Religious News
LyricFox 3 1410 Last post March 18, 2011, 01:15:05 am
by stephyjh
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 51 queries.