What do you think makes a witch?

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[Jenett]

Could you expand on this? I'm not a magic practitioner, so I'm curious about the difference.

There's an argument (that I tend to buy, though it's not the only option out there) that there are fundamentally two types of magic: those where the energy of the working runs through (or intimately involves in some other form) the person doing it, and those where the person doing it is essentially working at arm's reach: the energy might pass through their tools, but never enter into (and therefore potentially change) them.

One example is folk witchcraft, where the witch uses her (or his) body to shape a physical object, harvest herbs, make or carve a candle, whatever, and then infuses energy directly from them (and possibly drawn from other sources as well) to charge and create the energetic work of that ritual in some form. On the other side of the spectrum, we have the classic ceremonial magic works, where you have a very specific set up that creates very specific tools that do very specific things - but they're all sort of done with tongs at arm's reach, and don't directly pass through or bubble up from the energy of the magician.

One isn't better than the other in any general sense - but they often do different *things* better, sort of like some things a naturopath, herbalist, or other holistic healer may be better at, and some things a surgeon may be a lot better at.

[Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)]

blueheron,

Did you know that TC has an Art, Poetry, and Writing folder?  Each member also has a personal blog that they can write in.

Many of your posts seem to have little to do with the subjects of the threads you put them in.  Free-form, stream-of-consciousness writing may be very fun to do, and enjoyable to read in the right context, but it contributes nothing to an ongoing conversation.  You don't seem to be actually involved in the discussion, just riffing off a concept that caught your attention.  That's the kind of thing that might go better in a blog or the writing folder.

I'm not saying this as a mod - you haven't broken any rules here (although there are certain standards of intelligibility we expect people to maintain).  It's just that some of your posts may be better appreciated on their own than as this kind of jarring, wtf, contribution to a discussion thread.

Absent

[Juni]

There's an argument (that I tend to buy, though it's not the only option out there) that there are fundamentally two types of magic: those where the energy of the working runs through (or intimately involves in some other form) the person doing it, and those where the person doing it is essentially working at arm's reach: the energy might pass through their tools, but never enter into (and therefore potentially change) them.

That makes sense, thanks!

[Star]

*** MOD HAT ON ***

Blueheron, if you want to post stream-of-consciousness and poetry, do it in the appropriate folders or in the blog space provided for each member.  These things do not belong in the midst of discussion threads.  When you post like this, it not only doesn't contribute to the discussion, it actually disrupts and derails it.  Topic drift is one thing; taking a sharp turn into something completely unrelated and largely incomprehensible is quite another.

This is an official warning, and the last one that you will get.  If you continue posting in this manner (or break any other rules), you will earn yourself a one-week gag.  If you have any questions or concerns about this, please PM me and I will be happy to answer them.

Star
Cauldron Message Board Coordinator

[SunflowerP]

I'm curious- how do you personally define magic? What else comprises magical action besides spellwork, in your opinion/experience?

The Crowleyan definition ("the art of causing change in accordance with the will") works pretty well for me.  Further refined, I'd say magic is that which is done primarily with the will and the powers of the mind as distinct from that which is done primarily with the body.  And, yes, this does include quite a bit that most people think of as mundane, not magical - when, f'ex, I write a blog post, and my words and ideas cause even one reader to see things in a different way than they had before, that's magic.  (Not the best example, since anything involving putting words together in sentences and paragraphs could be said to be spellwork in the broadest sense of the word [since "spell" as in how words are spelt and "spell" as in magic aren't just a coincidence, they're the same word], but it's not what people usually mean by "spellwork".)

Since I generally use the "energy" framing to talk about this stuff, I suppose what I'm saying is that there are a lot more ways to channel (magical-type) energy than just chanting a rhyme and/or raising a cone of power, and some of them don't look "ooh, cool, shiny, mystical!" at all.

This is probably clear as mud.

Sunflower

[Juni]

This is probably clear as mud.

I think it makes sense. Thanks.

[Owl]

Since I generally use the "energy" framing to talk about this stuff, I suppose what I'm saying is that there are a lot more ways to channel (magical-type) energy than just chanting a rhyme and/or raising a cone of power, and some of them don't look "ooh, cool, shiny, mystical!" at all.

This is probably clear as mud.

Sunflower

I generally don't do any kind of ritual - I just channel energy with a purpose (generally internally verbalized since that makes focusing on something easy). 

[Chatters]

How do you find the mindset of a witch different than the mindset of non-witches? Do you think there's a line where magic goes from being a part of every day life to being an over-used crutch, or do you think that magic is always a viable tool for a witch?

Hi I haven't been on for a bit and just noticed your question.

For me the mindset of a witch is different because she/he seeks to reach an altered state of conscientious. Practice in ritual, raising energy, mediation and and visualisation are all tools that when practised becomes easier to reach. For example I slip into a trance whilst washing up and can visualise intent when walking down the road. Also spell casting, raising energy and other work of the craft can be practised whilst gardening or cleaning your home. I don't mean cast a spell every time you do something mundane. I mean practise trance, feel and raise energy and cleansing or divination. So yes magic is always a viable tool for a witch.

Magic being an overused crutch - if it is used to hide from your own problems or yourself then yes of course it can be a crutch.

   

[RootRealm]

"Witch" is such a tricky word, isn't it? I find that it, like "pagan" is so widely used with so many variants on the meaning that it almost means nothing to me. So I figured I'd pick TC brains and see what you all think.

So what makes someone a witch, in your opinion? (And I think we can probably skip the "well, if they self-identify as a witch..." part, because that's pretty obvious.) Is it a mindset, or a type of practice, or a method of belief, or some combination of the above, or something else entirely?

Very very good question, probably very hard to answer...I like this answer which I found in Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon:  "The only thing that one really needs to be a witch, the only thing all varieties of witches have in common, is a belief in what I shall call the power of the Moon Principle -- that which springs from the intuitive, the psychic, the mysterious, that which is somehow aligned with the female, the hidden, the unknown." 

[Owl]

Very very good question, probably very hard to answer...I like this answer which I found in Margot Adler's book Drawing Down the Moon:  "The only thing that one really needs to be a witch, the only thing all varieties of witches have in common, is a belief in what I shall call the power of the Moon Principle -- that which springs from the intuitive, the psychic, the mysterious, that which is somehow aligned with the female, the hidden, the unknown." 

I have to disagree with Adler on the 'aligned with the female...' part especially. 

[Ellen M.]

I have to disagree with Adler on the 'aligned with the female...' part especially. 

Me too. I really don't like the subtle sexism inherent in thinking that us womenfolk have super secret magical moon powers that all the guys miss out on.

[Owl]

Me too. I really don't like the subtle sexism inherent in thinking that us womenfolk have super secret magical moon powers that all the guys miss out on.

Well said!

That, and the super-secret-decoder-ring feel to the whole statement.

[Dark Midnight]

Well said!

That, and the super-secret-decoder-ring feel to the whole statement.

It does feel a bit like that, doesn't it? Thanks-I was struggling with trying to find an apt phrase!

[Owl]

It does feel a bit like that, doesn't it? Thanks-I was struggling with trying to find an apt phrase!

No problem - I have a 'tude on today anyway!

[Ellen M.]

Well said!

That, and the super-secret-decoder-ring feel to the whole statement.

Thanks!

Personally, I've struggled to connect with any sort of "women's spirituality" because of the intense pressure above statements cause. So as a woman (which I didn't get to choose, and only vaguely identify as by default) I'm linked with some mysterious, occult power, not to mention nature (making guys linked to what, civilization?) that I've almost never been able to feel. Talk about performance anxiety in ritual. >>

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