The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
September 28, 2022, 10:27:46 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 28, 2022, 10:27:46 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Your definition of Faith  (Read 11389 times)
Wintermoon
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:August 15, 2011, 09:43:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: spiritual atheist
Posts: 75


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #15: May 30, 2010, 10:55:13 pm »

Very simple: belief without evidence.

This is how I define faith also. In my own experience, I have had no direct evidence of deity; therefore I cannot determine whether or not deity exists. If I then believe in deity, I call that faith.

I also agree with the degree of trust involved.
Logged

~Vivian

You can't take the sky from me.

"I get really distracted by works of fiction. Probably because you don't have to make any decisions." ~my sister

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." ~Mark Twain

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

loneash
Master Member
****
Last Login:June 12, 2010, 12:58:45 pm
United States United States

Religion: eclectic pagan
Posts: 737

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #16: May 31, 2010, 09:32:50 pm »

That's interesting, because the way I've always defined "blind faith" is believing without any evidence (and usually without any questions). Belief in spite of evidence is, in my opinion, ignorance.

But what is evidence?

I am constantly bombarded by my wife and her religious friends about the "evidence" for thier beliefs.  To me, they are unsuported evidence, to them they are good evidence.

Yes, I believe in my Gods.  Can I prove them ? No.  But I can accept them because the very nature of belief as apossed to absolute faith, allows it.  It is personal acceptance.
Logged
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17: May 31, 2010, 09:53:12 pm »

But what is evidence?

I am constantly bombarded by my wife and her religious friends about the "evidence" for thier beliefs.  To me, they are unsuported evidence, to them they are good evidence.

Yes, I believe in my Gods.  Can I prove them ? No.  But I can accept them because the very nature of belief as apossed to absolute faith, allows it.  It is personal acceptance.

Depends on the type of evidence you want. There's empirical evidence that can be reproduced by other parties, with measurable results. (For example, we figured out the rate at which gravity affects objects on earth because scientists could set up experiments and get solid results.) On the other hand, there's the evidence that proves something true to individual practitioners. No, we may never be able to prove the gods in a laboratory, but that's not the evidence people need.

Evidence, such as gained through meditation, prayer, working magic, any sort of spiritual experience, is clearly not empirical or scientific by any means, but that's enough for some people to believe.
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
FunkyDemon
Journeyman
***
Last Login:July 08, 2011, 11:00:11 am
Canada Canada

Religion: Heathen
TCN ID: FunkyDemon
Posts: 143


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #18: June 03, 2010, 08:18:30 pm »

Depends on the type of evidence you want. There's empirical evidence that can be reproduced by other parties, with measurable results. (For example, we figured out the rate at which gravity affects objects on earth because scientists could set up experiments and get solid results.) On the other hand, there's the evidence that proves something true to individual practitioners. No, we may never be able to prove the gods in a laboratory, but that's not the evidence people need.

Evidence, such as gained through meditation, prayer, working magic, any sort of spiritual experience, is clearly not empirical or scientific by any means, but that's enough for some people to believe.

I have to go with empirical evidence.  Feelings of other people isn't evidence to me.  "Is that god?  Nope, just some gas."  But at the same time, I don't have a need for evidence of gods...there is faith.

Probably why I don't believe in magic.
Logged
Vella Malachite
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 31, 2011, 03:27:04 am
Australia Australia

Religion: Irish Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 368


Never underestimate carefully worded nonsense.

Blog entries (3)



Ignore
« Reply #19: June 03, 2010, 09:14:11 pm »

But what is evidence?

I am constantly bombarded by my wife and her religious friends about the "evidence" for thier beliefs.  To me, they are unsuported evidence, to them they are good evidence.

Yes, I believe in my Gods.  Can I prove them ? No.  But I can accept them because the very nature of belief as apossed to absolute faith, allows it.  It is personal acceptance.

Well, evidence for me depends on the context.
If we're talking about scientific evidence, yes, we can prove that people exhibit delta brainwaves when they are sleeping deeply, because we hook them up to an electroencephalogram and we wait until they are deeply asleep and we measure what brainwaves they exhibit (bad example, sorry, I've just been studying for my Psychology exam...).  So we have hard evidence that people accept.

Then we have evidence in something that we can't measure so easily, like the deities.  For me, knowing that when the I get a specific feeling or voice, it is usually connected to a message from or about the Gods leads me to believe that whenever I have that specific feeling or voice talking, it is the Gods trying to communicate with me.  Other people have the same feeling.  For me, that is evidence.  As a follower of the recon path, any proven archaeological findings are also evidence, as long as they are sufficiently substantiable.

Unsupported evidence, for me, occurs in sources where someone is told to believe something by another person, and they do without asking if that is "the truth" for them.  So I guess for me, if someone said that "we found x type of artifacts in Celtic ruins, and this is why we believe they were important", then I would believe that, because that falls under archaeological evidence (maybe a background check first, but you know what I mean).  If someone told me "I believe that Manannan is like this, because that's how he appears to me", then maybe I'd be a bit more cautious about believing that myself, checking that it didn't contradict any evidence I already have about him.  I'd still be capable of believing it, but I wouldn't blindly take it as immediate truth, either.
Of course, circumstances for that change with how experienced the person was with Manannan, how well I knew them, how likely their info was to be "fluffy".  "I believe Manannan is like this because a totally awesome book I read said this" is more suspect than "I believe Manannan is like this because that's the feeling I always got from him and there's a legend that says this".

I guess my main point is that evidence about deities is far more subjective.  But there are still ways of making guidelines for what is unsupported and what is unsupported but plausible.
Logged

Minds are like parachutes: Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he is a man, but when he is a spinning ball of ammonia and methane must be silent?
RootRealm
Journeyman
***
Last Login:August 21, 2010, 07:37:59 am
United States United States

Religion: Hermetic Witchcraft
Posts: 134

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #20: June 28, 2010, 12:58:33 am »

The point I want to make with this topic is what YOUR definition of faith is. People can use the word "faith" differently.

The usages include:

-Trusting in the outcome of something.
-Faith being defined as religion, as in "Many people have different faiths".
-Trusting that a certain deity

That's all I can really think of at the moment, but I'm sure you guys have different thoughts and definitions about it. Smiley

So what do you think faith is?

I have come to not really like the word "faith" very much, and if I use it at all, I'd use it in the first sense you mentioned, as trusting in the outcome of something, or trusting in someone.  I think my preference would be to use it as trusting in someone

I dislike the use of the term faith to apply to religions, since not all religions or spiritual paths are based upon "faith" or are well characterized by that term.  I would frown if someone referred to Witchcraft or Paganism or Ceremonial Magic as a "faith."  I associate that term primarily with Christianity as a "faith". 

I read something recently, I can't recall where, in some occult or Magic book, where the author stated that he did not like the term faith, and thought that anyone who based their beliefs on faith, when instead they could base them on knowledge, was misguided.  He felt that (esoteric, occult) knowledge of the Divine was far superior to a lukewarm "faith", which could ostensibly be altered or threatened or lost, (whereas direct knowledge would not be lost, once it is found) and that represents my viewpoint, though I may not feel as strongly about it as he seemed to. 
Logged

If you live according to an example, you live the life of that example.  There is only one way and that is your way.  You seek the path? I warn you away from my own.  May each go his own way....  ---Carl Jung
Fyreflyes
Apprentice
**
Last Login:August 02, 2010, 06:02:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: agnostic
Posts: 31


The only thing intolerable is the intolerant.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #21: July 05, 2010, 08:58:09 pm »

The point I want to make with this topic is what YOUR definition of faith is. People can use the word "faith" differently.

The usages include:

-Trusting in the outcome of something.
-Faith being defined as religion, as in "Many people have different faiths".
-Trusting that a certain deity

That's all I can really think of at the moment, but I'm sure you guys have different thoughts and definitions about it. Smiley

So what do you think faith is?


I see faith as believing something without any evidence to support it. IMO, faith can not exist without doubt.
Logged

Before Christopher Columbus, everyone knew the world was flat.
-Men in Black

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Definition of religion/religiousity? « 1 2 »
Paganism For Beginners
Waldfrau 20 5772 Last post March 17, 2008, 03:59:00 am
by Waldfrau
Definition of a God « 1 2 3 »
Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu 30 10504 Last post June 06, 2008, 02:38:14 am
by Waldfrau
Your Definition of Magic? « 1 2 »
Miscellaneous Magical Discussions
RandallS 17 5352 Last post November 12, 2009, 09:16:16 pm
by Shadowolf
Can a Person, by TC's Definition, Be Pagan and Follow the Teachings of Jesus? « 1 2 ... 5 6 »
Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology
Pythuna 77 30823 Last post January 26, 2010, 12:42:46 am
by Dark Midnight
Your Definition of Clergy « 1 2 »
Paganism For Beginners
darashand 17 7044 Last post February 16, 2010, 05:52:00 pm
by Aster Breo
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.215 seconds with 43 queries.