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Author Topic: How Do You Know Your Magic Works?  (Read 3690 times)
RandallS
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« Topic Start: June 16, 2010, 08:09:24 am »

How do you know your magic is working?

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?
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« Reply #1: June 17, 2010, 06:23:00 pm »

How do you know your magic is working?

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?

An interesting topic, Randall. I'm a strong believer that no matter what kind of spell one uses, it has to be followed by further participation on the caster's part. In other words, if you cast a spell to find love, you need to get your ass off the couch and seek out opportunities to enable meeting whomever. I'm reminded of Phyllis Currot's personal story of asking the universe to make herself open to finding love rather than asking for something more specific in the way of a mate. Several months later, she dreamed of a guy on a motorcycle and then met this guy on a motorcycle...figured...this is not a coincidence...I think they are still married.

Wouldn't you agree that in order to define something as successful, you have to have something to measure that against? Or to put it another way, if you don't know how to measure success, then how do you know what to ask for?

Your examples, to me anyway, all have a common theme. They are very non-specific requests. A quarter is money - if you pick it up. An abandoned puppy brings love - if you keep it.

The other aspect of non-specificity is time. If you set too many conditions on a spell...well you end up having to settle for that quarter or a wet-nosed puppy. Now that isn't exactly what you are asking with regard to time. Your question is more along the lines of what do you give the spell credit for as opposed to what might or could or did happen anyway by being in the right place at the right time.

My initial response to that circles back to getting one's ass off the couch. All the spell is supposed to do is draw potential mates to you. That's when the decisions and the work kick in. Suppose over that five years, that spell brought into your life a lot of opportunities to meet 'less than perfect' mates  but that you didn't bother to follow up on any of these. Maybe it was the 'perfection trap' at work with its illusion of 'no work- perfect love'. Maybe you did follow up and the relationship(s) fizzled. When you do meet that 'perfect' person, arn't you making the same decision again - do I follow up on this or not? In reality the work will also be there regardless of perfection. The result is what you chose to do and continue to do. The spell just provides the opportunities OR it provides you with a belief that opportunities would now come your way making you more observant, aware and open to love. Does that make sense?

In a way, attributing success to spells is like attributing correspondences to objects, herbs, whatever. You invest the belief that what you are doing (spellcraft) used the proper way etc, will bring expected results. From that perspective, it is not so much the spell or the correspondence but the belief that is the driving force behind the intent.

Hmm, musing here. Not sure if this is going anywhere specific.

Amber






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« Reply #2: June 17, 2010, 07:29:19 pm »

How do you know your magic is working?

Well, we never really know for certain, but for me, it is when something happens against all odds. It is like an experiment. If you  obtain a result such that the probability that it happened from random chance is extremely low, then it was likely your manipulation that caused the effect.
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« Reply #3: June 23, 2010, 05:31:23 pm »

How do you know your magic is working?
 How do you know? Does it matter?

I think some magic is like prayer; the desired outcome may have come about anyway, but it never hurts to add a little push to the universe. You'll probably never know, and it probably doesn't matter.

Some magic, especially that which is self transforming, can be measured almost immediately. I have done magic to cleanse a nasty astral intruder from my home. I have also dispelled stagnant or nasty energy that lingers after strife or conflict in the home, or after a visit from a particularly icky person. The results of these magics are felt immediately. Whether they are the result of successful spells, or the power of suggestion........ well, that is open to interpretation.

I have done healing shamanic work, that has given me prior knowledge of medical complications before being confirmed by medical diagnosis. In most cases of this kind of healing work, I was pretty sure my intervention had some impact on the final results. And one time I was prevented by a higher being from intervening with healing spells, and after what seemed a remarkable recovery, the patient simply died quickly from a stroke caused by a stray blood clot. At that time, I first became aware of the universe sometimes having a higher agenda that we cannot tamper with.

I have never done a spell to find money, or love. Somehow, that seems too unspecific for my magical style. I am also sort of constrained by my personal UPG about how it all works, and spells driven by greed, hate or sloth seem somehow.....tainted, and destined to either fail, or to succeed at a high price (sort of like getting rich cause your spouse died and left you the life insurance kind of price).

Just my ideas, YMMV

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« Reply #4: June 26, 2010, 01:10:45 pm »

I think some magic is like prayer; the desired outcome may have come about anyway, but it never hurts to add a little push to the universe. You'll probably never know, and it probably doesn't matter.

Some magic, especially that which is self transforming, can be measured almost immediately. I have done magic to cleanse a nasty astral intruder from my home. I have also dispelled stagnant or nasty energy that lingers after strife or conflict in the home, or after a visit from a particularly icky person. The results of these magics are felt immediately. Whether they are the result of successful spells, or the power of suggestion........ well, that is open to interpretation.

I have done healing shamanic work, that has given me prior knowledge of medical complications before being confirmed by medical diagnosis. In most cases of this kind of healing work, I was pretty sure my intervention had some impact on the final results. And one time I was prevented by a higher being from intervening with healing spells, and after what seemed a remarkable recovery, the patient simply died quickly from a stroke caused by a stray blood clot. At that time, I first became aware of the universe sometimes having a higher agenda that we cannot tamper with.

I have never done a spell to find money, or love. Somehow, that seems too unspecific for my magical style. I am also sort of constrained by my personal UPG about how it all works, and spells driven by greed, hate or sloth seem somehow.....tainted, and destined to either fail, or to succeed at a high price (sort of like getting rich cause your spouse died and left you the life insurance kind of price).

Just my ideas, YMMV



Good examples. I've done house cleansings over the years and the impact is always immediately noticable.

Belief I find is the strongest 'active agent' in creating change.

Amber
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« Reply #5: June 26, 2010, 10:33:06 pm »

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?

Generally as I outlined in my introduction I tend to be fairly precise with the results I'm looking for from a spell.  Therefore if the spell is largely in line with the results I'm looking for, then I feel safe in believing that my spell had a hand.

Now speaking hypothetically if I did a spell for money and got a quarter I would be foolish to dismiss out of hand the idea that the spell at least helped.  At the same time I really don't utilize spells that are that open.

As for the question about duration?  Well that can depend on a number of factors.  In the example you give, I would most likely count the outcome as being due in part to the spell I did, because who knows how long I would have gone without meeting someone if I hadn't done the spell.  On the other hand if I did a spell to say get a job, and then didn't get one for years, I'd probably not believe that the spell had anything to do with it.

As to whether or not it matters, well it does to me.  It is the difference between Magick being real, and me being a Mage, and Magick being fantasy and me being a delusional nutcase.
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« Reply #6: June 27, 2010, 12:32:39 pm »

How do you know your magic is working?

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?

I think this is a really excellent question for anyone doing Magic.  My own way to observe "success" in Magic workings, is to look for synchronicities, openings, doorways, and signs.  When I do Magic, I'm usually aware that I can never know the degree which my own desire and will are aligned with what the Deities desire and will for me, so I take the view that what I ask for, or the Magic I do, may have "results" which are not what I would expect. 

In his book The Inner Temple of Witchcraft, Christopher Penczak writes, "Magick usually manifests in the form of unusual coincidences and connections...after repeated successes, you know you are no longer working within the fabled 'Law of Averages', and that some other force, namely Magick, is at work. "  I concur with that.  For instance, yesterday I requested to be led to the plants that would help me to do the needed magic for this time in my life.  I came upon a certain plant that I was intuitively drawn to.  I cut a piece of it, intending to take it home and try to identify it.  The very first person I was drawn to ask about the plant, turned out to be someone who has just worked with this exact plant for the last 25 days in the Sierra Nevada, who told me all about it.

I try to cast a broad, somewhat "unfocused" gaze, something a former teacher once called a "shamanic gaze", upon the situation(s) related to the Magic workings, and in my opinion this unfocusedness allows more of the "corner" phenomena to be seen, and helps us avoid looking at circumstances and situations entirely through our egoic, pre-programmed, "same old groove" of a worn out view. 

I do believe that it would be a mistake to try to bring all the light of the Sun to bear on these realms of the Moon, so that keeping a journal or log, like an accounting book trying to keep track of which of your Magic Spells worked and how they worked, seems antithetical to the process.  I believe that bringing too much Sun logic and rational intellect to bear on the process is counterproductive.  Looking at it all "sideways", so as to prevent our egos from running the show, and allowing deeper and more "occult" aspects of our psyche to prevail, seems important. 
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« Reply #7: July 05, 2010, 02:14:03 pm »

Fun question!

I suppose if I did a very generic money spell and then found that quarter, I couldn't help but say that was my result, like it or not.  I think you have to find a balance between being specific with your desired results, being too specific and too generic (if that makes sense).  Doing a money spell for $5000 in $20 denominations on a Friday at 3pm is too specific, whereas being too generic or unspecific gets you that quarter (it is money after all, like it or not!).  I would also be careful with my wording because I wouldn't want a forgotten debt to pop up at the wrong time.  Even though that debt means paying out money, perhaps when you can least afford it, debt in a sense is a lack of money, so by eliminating that, it's the universes way of fulfilling your spell request.  I believe that magic/energy takes the path of least resistance, so if you do a money spell and proceed to sit on the sofa day in and day out, not helping yourself, all you'll get is that quarter or that forgotten debt.

Reminds me of a conversation I've had over and over again with more people than I can count:
Them - I wish I would win the lottery
Me - How often do you play?
Them - I don't
 Huh

I think a spell for success and prosperity would be more effective than a money spell.  I once was looking for a better paying job, put my resumes out there, had a few interviews, etc.  I decided to do a spell for success and prosperity just for an added push and ended up with 5 job offers all at the same time.  3 were from companies I interviewed with, 2 were from companies that heard I was looking and approached me.  That of course I considered a successful spell, because I used it in conjunction with the mundane tasks of handing out resumes and interviewing with these companies, instead of just doing a money spell and waiting for it to fall into my lap.

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« Reply #8: July 05, 2010, 03:36:06 pm »


Lailoken, please don't forget to quote (As I did here).  Thank you.

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« Reply #9: July 05, 2010, 04:46:27 pm »

Lailoken, please don't forget to quote (As I did here).  Thank you.

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« Reply #10: July 21, 2010, 10:02:38 am »

I think a spell for success and prosperity would be more effective than a money spell.  I once was looking for a better paying job, put my resumes out there, had a few interviews, etc.  I decided to do a spell for success and prosperity just for an added push and ended up with 5 job offers all at the same time.  3 were from companies I interviewed with, 2 were from companies that heard I was looking and approached me.  That of course I considered a successful spell, because I used it in conjunction with the mundane tasks of handing out resumes and interviewing with these companies, instead of just doing a money spell and waiting for it to fall into my lap.

You wouldn't by chance remember what that spell was, would you? Cuz I could sure use something like that right now.

I agree that you've got to help a spell along. You could cast a spell to find the perfect job for you, but if you then do nothing but sit at home watching the TV and bemoaning your fate, a job might be sitting at your door like a stray dog wanting a home, and you'd never know it. Is that a successful spell? Then again, it just might happen that a company has an opening, and one of its employees is best friends with your sister's boyfriend's brother. Your sister gets wind of it and calls you. You're watching TV and you pick up the phone. Voila. Job.

I've had bolts out of the blue like that. One time when I was looking for a job, I'd actually found a temp job when an agency called me about a different one. I opened my mouth to tell her no thanks, I'm working right now, call me in three months. But I got a feeling or a hunch that I should hear her out. I got fired from the job I was at a couple days later (the project I was hired for never started), but that was okay because I'd already interviewed and been hired for the other one.

But it's more likely if you help things along and make yourself as visible as possible to any job energy that might be sent your way.

When is a spell successful? When it gets obvious results, uh, obviously. But I also consider it a successful spell if it feels successful when I do it. When I feel the energy of the spell and when it seems to smooth out and get streamlined.

That's probably not a clear way to put it.

If I do a spell for a job, and someone gives me a small freelance job, I would consider it a successful spell, but maybe not successful enough. In that case, I might either look at what I'm doing mundanely and see if I can do something more or different. Or I might consider doing a job spell again.

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« Reply #11: July 21, 2010, 10:21:16 am »

How do you know your magic is working?
I know that my magic is working when I can feel the energy of the spell cast within me as well as around me.

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?
That would depend on the spell that was cast. If you were asking for a paycheck to stretch the amount of time it needs to stretch, then finding a quarter isn't going to help. However, if you weren't specific, then yes, it would have worked. It all depends on the wording and the intent.

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?
I don't think you can grant your spells time periods. I mean, if you need something done within a specific period of time, then I would specify that in your spellcraft. Otherwise, since the energy has been dispersed and the spell feels as though it will positively work, then you must simply be patient.

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?
Honestly, I don't think it matters.
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« Reply #12: July 21, 2010, 11:16:46 pm »

How do you know your magic is working?

What counts as successful? For example, if you cast a spell for money and you find a quarter in the parking lot, does that mean the spell worked? What if you cast a spell to draw love and you find an abandoned puppy outside your house?

How long to you allow before you stop counting something as a result of magic? For example, if you cast a spell to draw a mate to you and five years later you meet the perfect person for you and you are married within a few months of meeting that person, is that a result of your spell?

How do you tell success from wishful thinking/random chance? Back to the found a quarter example from the first paragraph? Is finding that quarter actually a result of your spell or is it just random chance? How do you know? Does it matter?

I'm weird; I know my magic is working usually right when I cast my spell.  I usually can feel that it is going to do what I need it to, or not.  I don't get it right every time, but I have gotten better at it.  If there is a problem with it doing things I don't want it to, I can usually feel that too, and correct it during the spell.  Sometimes it is a matter of changing which stones I use, or certain runes.  I don't know how to explain it, but it works for me.

I count something as a result of a spell when something happens that is really out of the realm of coincidence.  Like I did a money spell and a week later I received a completely unexpected check for $300. 
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