What if Paganism were the majority religion(s)?

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

Or donate directly via Paypal

This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

Which leads to a probably more focused question. What if Wicca (in some form) was the majority religion? Remove all the recon religions from the question & from being part of the majority.

Depends on the version, I'd think.  If coven-based BTW was in primacy, it would be a seriously different world than if solitary Wiccish nature-centered religion was primal.  I mean, they have the same name, but they're not even remotely the same thing ....

[Nimue]

The thing is that even though the various Christian sects have their differences, they are all a part of the same religion.  There is no one pagan religion and most have very little to do with each other in terms of beliefs.  (F/x: Catholic and Southern Baptist theology and other beliefs are close enough that they are both recognizably of the same religious origins.  The same can't be said about Asatru and Wicca.)

Members of certain Christian churches would argue you at this point.  Most Catholics I know would flip if they were told they were the same religion as Mormon.  The theology has some profound differences, though you are right, they have the same origins.

[Nimue]

I'm trying to imagine where all of the money that goes to the catholic church/vatican/what have you would go instead. No doubt they rake in a large chunk of the world's finances, I wonder where that would all go. Would the vatican just be another church, just another historical site?

I hate to say it, but money corrupts.  I really don't think it would take long before a pagan religion did the same thing.

[Nomad of Nowhere]

I'm curious to see what others think of the type of situation we'd be in as a society, as diverse  nations, as a planet, if varieties of Paganism/Reconstructionism were to become the "majority" religion(s) of the world, displacing Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam.

Obviously, there would still be ideological conflicts and wars, but I don't think it would be very common for the wars that did occur to have religious motivation. Case in point, the Roman Empire housed a diverse array of different cultural pagan beliefs from both Europe and the Near East. They even merged their deities with Celtic ones. They warred, conquered even, but they invoked their Gods to win wars rather than using them as pretexts to begin them.

Christians and other monotheists though might be subject to unfair treatment, just as they were in the past, and some extremists might likewise become dangerous anti-pagan fringe groups.

 A Pagan majority sounds better, but ideally, I think I would like a world of total religious variety, with no significant majority. I would want paganism at least well-represented. A lot of people don't even consider anything but hard monotheism, and that's the effect of centuries of Christian culture blinding them to all possibilities. The day that people grow up seriously questioning whether to be monotheistic or polytheistic, whether to be Manichaean, Christian, Jewish, or Neoplatonist, our culture will be free of preconceptions. That's all I really want- a death to monopolism, not monotheism.

[Nimue]

 A Pagan majority sounds better, but ideally, I think I would like a world of total religious variety, with no significant majority. I would want paganism at least well-represented. A lot of people don't even consider anything but hard monotheism, and that's the effect of centuries of Christian culture blinding them to all possibilities. The day that people grow up seriously questioning whether to be monotheistic or polytheistic, whether to be Manichaean, Christian, Jewish, or Neoplatonist, our culture will be free of preconceptions. That's all I really want- a death to monopolism, not monotheism.

Yeah, paganism well represented rather than the majority would probably be ideal.  I have already come across too many who believed that their way to draw a circle was the only valid way, and so on, which could lead to a sect of paganism that believes their way is the only way...and history repeats itself.

[catja6]

Like everyone else, I think on the large scale, there would still be the same issues of war, bigotry, violence, etc.  But I think there would be some very real, if subtle distinctions, mainly in the realm of language, philosophy and rhetoric.

I'm positing a world where Neo-Wicca is numerically and philosophically dominant, but doesn't, and never did, wield the kind of real-world institutional power that Christianity and Islam did/does.  Right away, the language we use to talk about religious outlook shifts -- there are assumptions about belief and practice, but they're more likely to cause annoyance than ostracism or danger.  Since there's no history of Neo-Wiccans actively persecuting or slaughtering non-believers, there isn't the same layer of fear, mistrust, power-mongering, privilege, etc.  That doesn't mean sunshine and roses, but I do think that the, for lack of a better word, *tone* of the discourse will shift into something more open. 

Like I said, I don't think war, imperialism and bigotry would disappear, but they'd have a different philosophical underpinning -- in Christian Europe and the Islamic Middle East, imperial expansion was often driven, particularly in popular rhetoric, by a desire to convert the non-believers with violence, or the more insidious "expose them to more advanced beliefs."  The evangelical monotheisms have a ready-made excuse for imperialism (spiritual and otherwise) and even outright genocide -- uniting the world under the banner of the One True God.  Polytheistic/pagan expansionists have to frame their ambitions differently, in more practical ways that are attuned to the general attitudes of the culture.  Take the Romans:  the Romans considered themselves a very pragmatic culture (esp. compared to the Greeks), so appeals to the economic and military-security "necessity" of conquering and subduing the world garnered a lot of popular support.  While they might gawp at the bizarre practices of their neighbors, there wasn't the same kind of "WE MUST CONVERT THEM" logic in play.     

[BrightWitch34]

I'm curious to see what others think of the type of situation we'd be in as a society, as diverse  nations, as a planet, if varieties of Paganism/Reconstructionism were to become the "majority" religion(s) of the world, displacing Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam.  No one particular Paganism being necessarily predominant, but Paganism as a whole becoming by far the majority practice.  What would happen to our political systems? What would happen to our communities and neighborhoods?  What would happen on a national or local scale?

I think that it would be amazing if people really woke up and realized there is more out there besides just Christianity. Maybe whatever happens in 2012 will open peoples' minds. I heard that we might be having an alien come down. That would definitly open peoples' minds lol :]

[Star]

I think that it would be amazing if people really woke up and realized there is more out there besides just Christianity.

In what ways?

Maybe whatever happens in 2012 will open peoples' minds. I heard that we might be having an alien come down. That would definitly open peoples' minds lol :]

I hope you're not holding your breath.  Rather than go through the whole thing again, I'll just point you to this thread from last year:
http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=9981.0

[Melamphoros]

I think that it would be amazing if people really woke up and realized there is more out there besides just Christianity. Maybe whatever happens in 2012 will open peoples' minds. I heard that we might be having an alien come down. That would definitly open peoples' minds lol :]

I am trying not to be a snarky bastard today and you tempt me with THIS?

[Star]

I hope you're not holding your breath.  Rather than go through the whole thing again, I'll just point you to this thread from last year:
http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=9981.0

I should add that, when viewing that thread, you can scroll down to the Related Threads area at the bottom for a couple of other threads on the same topic.

[Castus]

Would everything go swimmingly and peace and joy reign on earth,  or would new problems be created, new power struggles, perhaps now among Pagan "factions" or different paths, regarding whose was more "correct."?  HOw would you feel if there was no need to "come out" at work, as a Pagan, but rather it was now the Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Muslims who had to trepidatiously "come out" and risk the wrath of the Pagan majority?  

My ideal view of paganism in the future: large minority. You know, I would like paganism as a whole to become something like Judaism. Large-ish with physical places of worship that are built for worship exclusively.  I would like to walk down the street and see a hellenic temple staffed by priests. I would like for there to be open pagan politicians. But that having been said, any larger, I think we would lose something. I don't know what, but we would lose it.

[Caliburn]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

Demographics for religions around the world.

I think their data is rather flawed since the various religions have different number of followers. For instance Shinto has far more followers according to the Agency of Cultural Affairs, of the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology of Japan:

[Caliburn]

Obviously, there would still be ideological conflicts and wars, but I don't think it would be very common for the wars that did occur to have religious motivation. Case in point, the Roman Empire housed a diverse array of different cultural pagan beliefs from both Europe and the Near East. They even merged their deities with Celtic ones. They warred, conquered even, but they invoked their Gods to win wars rather than using them as pretexts to begin them.

Christians and other monotheists though might be subject to unfair treatment, just as they were in the past, and some extremists might likewise become dangerous anti-pagan fringe groups.

 A Pagan majority sounds better, but ideally, I think I would like a world of total religious variety, with no significant majority. I would want paganism at least well-represented. A lot of people don't even consider anything but hard monotheism, and that's the effect of centuries of Christian culture blinding them to all possibilities. The day that people grow up seriously questioning whether to be monotheistic or polytheistic, whether to be Manichaean, Christian, Jewish, or Neoplatonist, our culture will be free of preconceptions. That's all I really want- a death to monopolism, not monotheism.

Best post on this topic, so far.
I would add that in the temples of Hellenic religion throughout Greco-Roman world you could find a statue to an unknown deity. The idea, of course, was that these altars to the "unknown gods" ensured that no deity was omitted from worship. So anyone could, in transit, in visit, or an immigrant could worship his gods freely.
No one claims that it would be all roses and sweets in case Paganism had the majority. However, I think that in all it would be better, by far, then the present state. Diversity is something to be desired in case of religious affiliation. That said, I would feel better if Abrahamic religions were minority.
This image, that is essentially a  joke, is uncomfortable close to historical events:

[RandallS]

First, do you have permission from the copyright owners of the image you have posted to post those images on this forum? Having obtained such permission and mentioning that you have in your post is required by our rules.

Second, any image that refers to the Dark Age in Europe as the "Christian Dark Age" is highly suspect for basis, IMHO -- as the Dark Age wasn't caused by Christianity. It was "caused" -- if something like this can be said to have a single cause -- by the fall of the Western Roman Empire to various waves of barbarians (and the continuing waves of barbarians thereafter). The Christian Church actually preserved knowledge during this time even if they were not big on advancement of knowledge. And scientific advancement did not slow worldwide, just in Europe.

While I realize that blaming Christianity for everything that ever happened that one does not like since Jesus appeared on the scene is easy to do, it is seldom a clear cut as people who have problems with Christianity make it out to be.

[SunflowerP]

I think their data is rather flawed since the various religions have different number of followers. For instance Shinto has far more followers according to the Agency of Cultural Affairs, of the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology of Japan:

I'm not surprised to see so many Shinto followers in a pie graph illustrating the religious demographics of Japan.  This has no bearing whatsoever on the data in Sailor Tech's link, which discusses worldwide religious demographics.

Sunflower

[Tags:]

Jump to: Please select a destination: ----------------------------- About The Cauldron ----------------------------- => Rules and Regulations => Cauldron Announcements ===> Volunteers Needed: Site Assistants and Projects => Introductions => Board Questions, Suggestions, and Feedback => Chat and CauldronMUX Support => Test Board ----------------------------- Religion and Philosophy ----------------------------- => Paganism For Beginners => Books and Other Resources => Pagan Religions => Pagan Spirituality => Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology => Worship and Ritual => Holidays and Festivals => History and Religion => Faith in Everyday Life => Philosophy and Metaphysics => Non-Pagan Religions and Interfaith Discussions => Miscellaneous Religious Discussions ----------------------------- Magic and the Occult ----------------------------- => Magic and the Occult for Beginners => Witchcraft, Hoodoo, and Folk Magic => The Western Magical Tradition => Chaos Magic => Lodges and Other Magic Organizations => Miscellaneous Magical Discussions ----------------------------- Special Interest Groups & Special Discussions ----------------------------- => Special Topic Discussions => Chavi Memorial Chronic Illness SIG => General SIGS ===> College Pagans SIG ===> Cooking SIG ===> Divination SIG ===> Home and Garden SIG ===> Pagan Parents SIG ===> Teen Pagans SIG => Religious SIGS ===> Asatru and Heathenry SIG ===> Cauldron Cill ===> FlameKeeping SIG ===> Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG ===> Neo-Druidry SIG ===> Reformed Kemeticism SIG ===> Ta Hiera Hellenic Polytheism SIG => Book/Media Discussion Boards ===> Academic Book Discussions ===> Pagan Religion Book Discussions ===> Magick Book Discussions ===> Fiction Book Discussions ===> DVD/Video Discussions ----------------------------- Life, the Universe, and Everything Else ----------------------------- => Pagan Announcements => Prayer and Energy Requests => News and Politics ===> Religious News ===> Non-Religious News ===> Political Discussions => Social Discussion Boards ===> Art, Poetry and Writing ===> Books ===> Computers and the Internet ===> Crafts and Hobbies ===> Family Life ===> Gaming ===> Health and Medicine ===> Humor and Quizzes ===> Music, Television, and Film ===> Pets ===> Science and Technology ===> Sports and Recreation