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Author Topic: Looking for Advanced Books  (Read 4671 times)
Nimue
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« Topic Start: July 04, 2010, 06:21:27 am »

I have been practicing for a few years now, and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.  I'm now wondering if anyone has any suggestions for advanced reading.  Right now I am working on "The Golden Bough" and the "Egyptian Book of the Dead".
Thanks   Smiley
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« Reply #1: July 04, 2010, 08:01:17 am »

I have been practicing for a few years now, and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.  I'm now wondering if anyone has any suggestions for advanced reading.  Right now I am working on "The Golden Bough" and the "Egyptian Book of the Dead".

Both of those are very dated and some to much of what they say in no longer considered correct. What areas are you looking for books on?
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« Reply #2: July 04, 2010, 10:05:17 pm »

Both of those are very dated and some to much of what they say in no longer considered correct. What areas are you looking for books on?

Dated, yes, but I still like to read books like that because it tells alot about the time period it was written, and authors tend to influence each other.  (Blame it on that I'm an English Lit major).  I'm hoping for more stuff on ceremonial magic, and the witch hunts, namely the spanish inquisition.  Pretty much anything that is not an intro book, that as a practitioner, you could not do without.
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« Reply #3: July 05, 2010, 12:38:56 am »

I'm hoping for more stuff on ceremonial magic, and the witch hunts, namely the spanish inquisition.  Pretty much anything that is not an intro book, that as a practitioner, you could not do without.

Those are three huge areas of interest, in terms of scope. I'd recommend looking at the titles in 'Magic In History' series published by Penn State Uni Press; also the 'Witchcraft & Magic In Europe' series. These are collections of essays and papers and some complete works that should provide a start in regards to who is working in those fields (the bibliographies alone are a great resource).



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« Reply #4: July 05, 2010, 06:17:25 pm »

Those are three huge areas of interest, in terms of scope. I'd recommend looking at the titles in 'Magic In History' series published by Penn State Uni Press; also the 'Witchcraft & Magic In Europe' series. These are collections of essays and papers and some complete works that should provide a start in regards to who is working in those fields (the bibliographies alone are a great resource).





Thanks!  I'm just having a hard time finding reliable books that are not intro books, or that are horribly biased. 
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« Reply #5: July 05, 2010, 06:18:56 pm »

Thanks!  I'm just having a hard time finding reliable books that are not intro books, or that are horribly biased. 

This may not be what you're looking for, but Ronald Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon" is a very academic and respected work looking at where the hell Wicca/Pagan witchcraft really came from.
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« Reply #6: July 05, 2010, 06:40:56 pm »

I have been practicing for a few years now, and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.  I'm now wondering if anyone has any suggestions for advanced reading.  Right now I am working on "The Golden Bough" and the "Egyptian Book of the Dead".
Thanks   Smiley

Whats your scope? Whats "advanced" in Hellenic Paganism is different from whats "advanced" in general Pagan studies. Are we talking spellcraft, general Paganism, a particular religious path...?
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« Reply #7: July 05, 2010, 07:28:57 pm »

Whats your scope? Whats "advanced" in Hellenic Paganism is different from whats "advanced" in general Pagan studies. Are we talking spellcraft, general Paganism, a particular religious path...?

I would not mind having some titles on spell craft, namely runes and tarot in magical practice.  Some advanced Wicca would help too.  I already read "The Second Circle", "Advanced Witchcraft", and "The Veil's Edge".  Basically I'm just looking for books that are not beginner oriented.
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« Reply #8: August 24, 2010, 08:51:29 am »

I have been practicing for a few years now, and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.  I'm now wondering if anyone has any suggestions for advanced reading.  Right now I am working on "The Golden Bough" and the "Egyptian Book of the Dead".
Thanks   Smiley
If you really want some heavy stuff start by looking up a guy called John Dee, He was a famous court magician back in the day and can be found on youtube.  He's the one who over saw the writing of the Enochian language.  If you want hard core that's hard core magic.  Study up on that.  You'll be fascinated.  There is always the Cabala.  But I would also suggest if you haven't already picking up anything by Aleister Crowley for a more educated and stimulating reading and it will further your journey.  He's not as dark as you think he is.
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« Reply #9: August 29, 2010, 01:32:03 am »

If you really want some heavy stuff start by looking up a guy called John Dee, He was a famous court magician back in the day and can be found on youtube.  He's the one who over saw the writing of the Enochian language.  If you want hard core that's hard core magic.  Study up on that.  You'll be fascinated.  There is always the Cabala.  But I would also suggest if you haven't already picking up anything by Aleister Crowley for a more educated and stimulating reading and it will further your journey.  He's not as dark as you think he is.

I have been working on Enochian and reading works by Aleister Crowley...very very slowly.  Tends to give me more than a wee bit of a head ache.
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« Reply #10: January 28, 2011, 07:17:26 pm »

This may not be what you're looking for, but Ronald Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon" is a very academic and respected work looking at where the hell Wicca/Pagan witchcraft really came from.

It's my understanding that a lot of Hutton's work has been discredited.  Apparently he went the route of the 'cool theory let's find facts to fit it' rather than 'cool facts lets find a theory to fit it'. Is this not the case?
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« Reply #11: January 28, 2011, 07:28:52 pm »

It's my understanding that a lot of Hutton's work has been discredited.  Apparently he went the route of the 'cool theory let's find facts to fit it' rather than 'cool facts lets find a theory to fit it'. Is this not the case?

Good bit more complicated than that, as I understand it. (I've read Hesleton, and the summaries of the more recent criticism of Hutton, but not the book itself yet: tight budget + need to spend most of my analytical brain power on job hunting tasks right now.)

Hutton is looking a particular set of evidence - not just about Gardner, but about events and people both before and after. As academic writing does, he's mostly limited to particular kinds of evidence (basically, things that can be demonstrated to other people from external sources) which is, as you might guess, rather limiting when talking about a mystery-focused oathbound religion and the people who follow it.

When doing academic writing, naturally, other people will come along, look at the evidence, maybe find some other bits of the evidence, and continue to refine it. But that doesn't automatically make the initial historian/academic/whover 'discredited'. It means that we continue to learn more and know more and understand more.

Or, in this case, where major new sources of information of the same kinds are relatively unlikely to turn up (in other words, we're not likely to suddenly get a completely previously unknown source turning up - it might happen, but it's less likely than in some fields/topics), you get different perspectives on what that evidence means.

What the academic reader is expected to do is to take a look at the evidence presented, the arguments made about that evidence, and to come to some sort of conclusion of their own. Generally, this is much more nuanced than "X good, Y bad." The academics I've known have all tended much more toward "Well, I agree with X's argument about this, and I think his evidence about Topic A is particularly powerful. But I really wonder about this statement B. When I read Y's work, I found her argument about B much more persuasive, particularly given the evidence she presented about B2, B3, and B5. On an emotional level, I also have some resonance with what E says in her review of X's and Y's work - I know she's not a formal academic, but she's got experience in the community, and what she describes has a common sense application that B4 ignores, and that I think weakens both X and Y's cases on that point."

I also think it generally takes *much* longer than 10 years for a piece of academic writing to hit the 'discredited' stage (barring something like clinical trials or medical testing, where you can sometimes figure it out faster.) I think in the social sciences, due to the speed of scholarly communication (the 'Net speeds some stuff up, but it still takes time for people to do research, prepare it for publication, and them for people to respond - all of which takes a good couple of years per major point) you need at least 20 to 30 years to really hash out someone's arguments and evidence in true depth.

(I am, btw, not an academic per se, but my father was a university professor doing what was at the time ground-breaking work in his field, my sister's a professor, and I'm a librarian by profession.)
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« Reply #12: January 28, 2011, 07:37:02 pm »


(I am, btw, not an academic per se, but my father was a university professor doing what was at the time ground-breaking work in his field, my sister's a professor, and I'm a librarian by profession.)


*joygasm*

A coherent and logical explanation rather than BOOK BAD Cheesy

Seriously thank you for the clarification. I generally prefer to read and evaluate for myself but it can be very challenging to pick through legitimate sources in this field. Thank you again, I think I'll see if I can scare up a copy and take a look for myself. Cheesy
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« Reply #13: January 28, 2011, 07:52:20 pm »

*joygasm*

A coherent and logical explanation rather than BOOK BAD Cheesy

Seriously thank you for the clarification. I generally prefer to read and evaluate for myself but it can be very challenging to pick through legitimate sources in this field. Thank you again, I think I'll see if I can scare up a copy and take a look for myself. Cheesy

*grin*

(If you see Catja doing the same thing on related topics - she's hugely better on folklore academia than I am, because that's her field, for example - I recommend them to your attention.)
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