The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
February 28, 2020, 03:58:09 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 28, 2020, 03:58:09 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: One Pantheon to Represent the Whole  (Read 14460 times)
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Topic Start: July 05, 2010, 04:07:59 am »

While I'm still doing some "self-searching", something crossed my mind. I was curious on what others thought.

As I posted in a previous post, I believe there may be many gods and goddesses who's work is what we see in nature and the processes of life.
However, I feel that their true nature MAY not be easily revealed to people if at all, at least in the sense of their history, interaction with other deities, names, etc. This in turn leads me to be cautious of "revealed" information concerning deities.

Of course, this could simply be due to the fact I've not had many strong interactions with what may be deities-a fact that may be extinguished with time!

That being said, what crossed my mind was following a particular pantheon to represent the "whole". To explain that thought a bit further, the gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon (and I only use that as an example because it is that ancient culture that interests me) can be viewed as "symbols" or "archetypes" for the gods and goddesses who's details may be, in my beliefs, unknown or impossible to find out. I suppose the idea would be that while one does not believe in the gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, they best represent what may be real (again, the deities who's information may not or cannot be revealed).

Only an idea that crossed my very cluttered, stormy mind. I am interested in other's input. Are there people who follow something similar?

Hopefully I didn't say anything in a disrespectful or confusing manner. And if I did I deeply apologize. I would never claim my beliefs to be the only truth. It is very important to me that I not disrespect anyone's beliefs!
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

AmberHeart
Journeyman
***
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 07:38:17 am
Canada Canada

Religion: Dianic Pagan
Posts: 229

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #1: July 05, 2010, 07:57:06 am »

While I'm still doing some "self-searching", something crossed my mind. I was curious on what others thought.

As I posted in a previous post, I believe there may be many gods and goddesses who's work is what we see in nature and the processes of life.
However, I feel that their true nature MAY not be easily revealed to people if at all, at least in the sense of their history, interaction with other deities, names, etc. This in turn leads me to be cautious of "revealed" information concerning deities.

Of course, this could simply be due to the fact I've not had many strong interactions with what may be deities-a fact that may be extinguished with time!

That being said, what crossed my mind was following a particular pantheon to represent the "whole". To explain that thought a bit further, the gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon (and I only use that as an example because it is that ancient culture that interests me) can be viewed as "symbols" or "archetypes" for the gods and goddesses who's details may be, in my beliefs, unknown or impossible to find out. I suppose the idea would be that while one does not believe in the gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, they best represent what may be real (again, the deities who's information may not or cannot be revealed).

Only an idea that crossed my very cluttered, stormy mind. I am interested in other's input. Are there people who follow something similar?

Hopefully I didn't say anything in a disrespectful or confusing manner. And if I did I deeply apologize. I would never claim my beliefs to be the only truth. It is very important to me that I not disrespect anyone's beliefs!

You are expressing your opinion or theory, not sure which at this point. What you are not doing is telling others what is true or not. So nothing disrespectful as far as I am concerned and talking about stuff is one of the best ways I know to get a better understanding. Unless you are amongst those who agree with you in which case, little is usually learned.

I have certainly crossed pathes with others that prefer or resonate to the concept of deities being just symbols or archetypes, not necessarily the same thing, I might add. It isn't that common across the diversity of modern Paganism but due to various publications by authors who promote those concepts, not that unusual.

As a hard polytheist, I have personal relationships with each member of the pantheon that is central to my Tradition. So it makes no sense to me to consider my Gods as just symbols or archetypes. They are intensely real, uniquely Themselves and not to be confused with other pantheons/deities. So for a h-p like me, the concepts don't resonate. A soft polytheist might be able to encompass the symbol/archetype concept but it varies from individual to individual.

As for the many deities that are and will remain unknown to me or whose information can't be revealed, isn't that normal? Isn't the unknown best represented by....being unknown?

Amber

Logged
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:November 07, 2019, 05:48:46 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #2: July 05, 2010, 07:58:23 am »

That being said, what crossed my mind was following a particular pantheon to represent the "whole". To explain that thought a bit further, the gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon (and I only use that as an example because it is that ancient culture that interests me) can be viewed as "symbols" or "archetypes" for the gods and goddesses who's details may be, in my beliefs, unknown or impossible to find out. I suppose the idea would be that while one does not believe in the gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, they best represent what may be real (again, the deities who's information may not or cannot be revealed).

Why think that way? Given the number of pantheons why "follow" one that you don't believe exists?
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Fyreflyes
Apprentice
**
Last Login:August 02, 2010, 06:02:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: agnostic
Posts: 31


The only thing intolerable is the intolerant.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #3: July 05, 2010, 10:25:44 am »

While I'm still doing some "self-searching", something crossed my mind. I was curious on what others thought.

As I posted in a previous post, I believe there may be many gods and goddesses who's work is what we see in nature and the processes of life.
However, I feel that their true nature MAY not be easily revealed to people if at all, at least in the sense of their history, interaction with other deities, names, etc. This in turn leads me to be cautious of "revealed" information concerning deities.

Of course, this could simply be due to the fact I've not had many strong interactions with what may be deities-a fact that may be extinguished with time!

That being said, what crossed my mind was following a particular pantheon to represent the "whole". To explain that thought a bit further, the gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon (and I only use that as an example because it is that ancient culture that interests me) can be viewed as "symbols" or "archetypes" for the gods and goddesses who's details may be, in my beliefs, unknown or impossible to find out. I suppose the idea would be that while one does not believe in the gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, they best represent what may be real (again, the deities who's information may not or cannot be revealed).

Only an idea that crossed my very cluttered, stormy mind. I am interested in other's input. Are there people who follow something similar?

Hopefully I didn't say anything in a disrespectful or confusing manner. And if I did I deeply apologize. I would never claim my beliefs to be the only truth. It is very important to me that I not disrespect anyone's beliefs!

Stop me if I'm wrong, but it  kind of reminds me of Hinduism. The religion has 1 main god, Ram, but he can be broken down into Shiva, Ram, and their son (whose name I always forget). The gods can then be broken down even further into seperate gods for a certian category, like an element.

My history teacher once started talking about how Christianity is the same way. There is God, but He is broken down into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It's an idea that I have always found very intreaguing.
Logged

Before Christopher Columbus, everyone knew the world was flat.
-Men in Black
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: July 05, 2010, 03:42:08 pm »

As for the many deities that are and will remain unknown to me or whose information can't be revealed, isn't that normal? Isn't the unknown best represented by....being unknown?

Perhaps. The thought was to use a pantheon as, perhaps, a method to better represent the unknown. To get closer to what may not be understood in whatever method is appropriate.
Logged
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: July 05, 2010, 04:08:03 pm »

Why think that way? Given the number of pantheons why "follow" one that you don't believe exists?

Perhaps because of my skepticism, I am cautious of "revealed" deities. Any god or goddesses that has great detail, for example. This also applies to all pantheons, not just one. My thought was that a pantheon would be followed to symbolize other deities; deities that I believe cannot be revealed by humanity's limited knowledge.

The gods and goddesses of a pantheon may not exist, but they are used to better personify what one cannot understand.

Of course as I mentioned, my skepticism with "revealed" gods and goddesses may change with time as I explore my spirituality more. This particular idea to use a pantheon to represent something else was simply something that crossed my mind.

Logged
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #6: July 05, 2010, 04:23:09 pm »

Stop me if I'm wrong, but it  kind of reminds me of Hinduism. The religion has 1 main god, Ram, but he can be broken down into Shiva, Ram, and their son (whose name I always forget). The gods can then be broken down even further into seperate gods for a certian category, like an element.

I think I see where you're coming from with that.

It may indeed be a similar concept...almost. Except instead of one main god, Ram as in Hinduism, there are several gods and goddesses. And these gods and goddesses are not the actual gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, but are simply represented by them. It's all symbolism.

I'm probably very confusing in my explaining of things!
Logged
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: July 05, 2010, 04:52:38 pm »


I'm really confused as to what you're trying to suggest. Are you looking to craft a pantheon solely of archetypes (the hunter, the sun god, the moon goddess) versus actual personalities (Artemis, Zeus, Thor, Aten)?
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Satsekhem
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:October 16, 2011, 11:51:56 am
United States United States

Religion: Something? Somewhere?
Posts: 2991


I rock so hardcore.

Blog entries (0)

aubs.taylor
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: July 05, 2010, 05:05:04 pm »

That being said, what crossed my mind was following a particular pantheon to represent the "whole". To explain that thought a bit further, the gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon (and I only use that as an example because it is that ancient culture that interests me) can be viewed as "symbols" or "archetypes" for the gods and goddesses who's details may be, in my beliefs, unknown or impossible to find out. I suppose the idea would be that while one does not believe in the gods and goddesses of a particular pantheon, they best represent what may be real (again, the deities who's information may not or cannot be revealed).

Only an idea that crossed my very cluttered, stormy mind. I am interested in other's input. Are there people who follow something similar?

Hopefully I didn't say anything in a disrespectful or confusing manner. And if I did I deeply apologize. I would never claim my beliefs to be the only truth. It is very important to me that I not disrespect anyone's beliefs!

All right. Let me see if I can figure this out. You are trying to go the route of J.R.R. Tolkien: One ring to rule them all, right? You want a Sauron's ring of sorts to help you take over and control and understand the elves, dwarves, and humans, right? I mean, obviously, correlate the metaphor to pantheons, but this is what you're getting at?
Logged

Sekhemib-Nymaatre; spiritual blog.
Thanks For All the Fish; opinionated ranty blog.

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. - Douglas Adams
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: July 05, 2010, 05:30:14 pm »

I'm really confused as to what you're trying to suggest. Are you looking to craft a pantheon solely of archetypes (the hunter, the sun god, the moon goddess) versus actual personalities (Artemis, Zeus, Thor, Aten)?

Not exactly what I was trying to get across, but the purpose is the same.

The archetypes represent an aspect of a god or goddess.
Or, as I was talking about, a particular "personality" in a pantheon can also represent a god or goddess, though that "personality" in themselves may not be real.
Logged
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: July 05, 2010, 05:32:02 pm »

Not exactly what I was trying to get across, but the purpose is the same.

The archetypes represent an aspect of a god or goddess.
Or, as I was talking about, a particular "personality" in a pantheon can also represent a god or goddess, though that "personality" in themselves may not be real.


How are you separating the personality from the god/dess? Are you talking about Zeus' anger, Aphrodite's coquettishness?
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Rowanfox
Master Member
****
Last Login:December 02, 2010, 12:55:53 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Gardnerian
Posts: 472


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: July 05, 2010, 05:33:47 pm »

Stop me if I'm wrong, but it  kind of reminds me of Hinduism. The religion has 1 main god, Ram, but he can be broken down into Shiva, Ram, and their son (whose name I always forget). The gods can then be broken down even further into seperate gods for a certian category, like an element.

My history teacher once started talking about how Christianity is the same way. There is God, but He is broken down into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It's an idea that I have always found very intreaguing.

Stop.

The three main deities of Hinduism are Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Rama and Krishna are avatars of Vishnu. Also included in the main pantheon are the consorts of the main three, the goddesses/consorts Saraswati, Durga (or Kali or Parvati) and Lakshmi. This is a very modern simplistic version of Hinduism. In fact, Hinduism has evolved over several millenia, and many of the gods have either grown, changed or faded away over time. The original Hindu deity was believed to be the great mother goddess Devi, and she is still worshipped today across India. The roles and myths around Hindu gods have changed over time, and stories and myths seem to have different casts over time. It was also believed that at one time, the Brahman was the supreme male divine force in the universe, and from there sprang the triumvirate. None of these assertions are right or wrong, as Hinduism, like most great religions in the world, has a vast array of sects and many are specific to local places in India. The Indian peoples relationships to the divine is as much cultural as religious, and very hard for outsiders to understand or interpret.
 
Logged

Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12: July 05, 2010, 05:40:45 pm »


 

There are also a lot of different ways to interpret and worship the gods in Hinduism - I've seen examples from everything from "there's one god, and this is the name and face I know him by" to "there's one god, but the worship of his different aspects is extremely close to polytheism." It depends on the person, their particular tradition, etc.
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11
Crystal
Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 06, 2010, 02:48:16 am
United States United States

Religion: Seeking
Posts: 18


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: July 05, 2010, 05:49:39 pm »

All right. Let me see if I can figure this out. You are trying to go the route of J.R.R. Tolkien: One ring to rule them all, right? You want a Sauron's ring of sorts to help you take over and control and understand the elves, dwarves, and humans, right? I mean, obviously, correlate the metaphor to pantheons, but this is what you're getting at?

I'm not sure if I get where you're going with that.

I seem to be having a difficult time explaining myself well and I apologize for that.
The thought is that a pantheon is used as pure symbolism.
Logged
Ellen M.
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:February 17, 2013, 08:34:24 pm
United States United States

Religion: ADF - UU - eclectic Wiccan - devotee of Brighid
Posts: 2479

Go, then - there are other worlds than these.

Blog entries (0)

Ellen MacInnis lellenator
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: July 05, 2010, 05:55:12 pm »

I'm not sure if I get where you're going with that.

I seem to be having a difficult time explaining myself well and I apologize for that.
The thought is that a pantheon is used as pure symbolism.

As opposed to a polytheistic outlook that sees the gods as separate, real entities?
Logged

Sage and Starshine: My new Pagan blog about Druidry, witchcraft, Brighid, and everything in between. -- 14th post 6/1/11

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Irish Pantheon « 1 2 3 4 5 »
Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG
Juni 65 25119 Last post July 06, 2010, 01:35:21 pm
by Taliesin
Pantheon...what is it?
Pagan Spirituality
TribalCat 12 3342 Last post September 15, 2007, 09:22:40 pm
by Watches-Crows
Pantheon structures?
Paganism For Beginners
Waldfrau 12 4772 Last post January 29, 2008, 01:56:55 pm
by SatAset
English Pantheon?
Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG
samham73 5 3973 Last post August 23, 2008, 01:16:00 pm
by QuercusRobur
Choosing a pantheon
Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG
Collinsky 12 7600 Last post March 21, 2009, 12:40:43 am
by Aster Breo
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 49 queries.