Multiple Gods--Handling Relationships and Who Did What?

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[NibbleKat]

So, I've recently read a thread here regarding dealing with multiple deities and how other folks set up their altars, do sacrifices and offerings, etc.  It was only semi-helpful to the question that's been paddling around in circles in my mind for a week or so now.

Having gone from basically being a one-god-girl to someone with two more new deities, I am muddled...  One I have definitely been thwapped by, the other... maybe we thwapped each other? At any rate, I've got a few questions.

How have those of you who have relationships with other deities developed those relationships? I find it more difficult to have time to get to know these new goddesses. Do you have any techniques for doing so? What do you do for a deity who is a softer speaker than the other?

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

And most importantly, when Something Happens-- either something you've asked for or something you just know  is out of the ordinary, how do you know who did what? Was it deity A, deity B, deity C, or All of the Above? Do you try and figure out which godly source did the Something, or do you thank them all?

 

[Vella Malachite]

How have those of you who have relationships with other deities developed those relationships? I find it more difficult to have time to get to know these new goddesses. Do you have any techniques for doing so? What do you do for a deity who is a softer speaker than the other?

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

And most importantly, when Something Happens-- either something you've asked for or something you just know  is out of the ordinary, how do you know who did what? Was it deity A, deity B, deity C, or All of the Above? Do you try and figure out which godly source did the Something, or do you thank them all?

Well, currently I work with four gods, and it seems to be going fine so far.

I think what helped me 'get to know' them (not that I really do yet...but I'm working on it) is that I started off with Manannan as my patron and making connections with Aenghus and the Morrighan knowing that my energy was going to be concentrated on Manannan.  I work with tM less, simply because she's made it clear that I can come to her if it's urgent, but Manannan will be sorting out the day-to-day stuff, so I don't know her so well.  Later, when Lugh came into the picture, I'd established a foundation of a relationship with the others, so I could concentrate a little more on Lugh.  I guess it's a little like getting to know four new friends.  I tend to make offerings and perform rituals to all of them at once (unless it's Lughnassad or similar, when I concentrate on the deity being honoured on that day), so I usually get equal amounts of time with all of them.

I have certainly had my doubts about my sanity, but I find if I concentrate on the things that probably didn't happen without divine intervention, f'ex, when I was emotionally messed up over a decision I had to make for months (not an exaggeration), then I asked for help, and soon after (about five days, I think), I knew exactly what I had to do and why.  Or when you get a message with something you couldn't possibly know, or is just so out-of-character for you to think.  I say don't worry about it.  I think most people probably question, and after all, what is faith but continuing in the face of that questioning?

And to answer your question about knowing Who did What, I return to my example about the decision.  It was easy to tell then, because Manannan pretty much straight-up told me that he was sick of my whining, so he was going to lend me to Aenghus for the week so I could sort it out.  It was fairly easy to tell who had their hands in that particular piece of work  .
But at other times, I've certainly asked who helped me at one point and Manannan, Aenghus and Lugh have all given me the metaphorical innocent eyes and a "Who, me?"
Fairly sure it was one of them, they're not telling who.  Guess I just live with that, puny mortal that I am. 

Hope that was in some small way helpful.

[Jenett]

How have those of you who have relationships with other deities developed those relationships? I find it more difficult to have time to get to know these new goddesses. Do you have any techniques for doing so? What do you do for a deity who is a softer speaker than the other?

For me, it's about context - with a good side of "Different entities are different entities and the relationships will find their own levels given time and reasonable attention." Like friendships or any other relationship, really.

Part of it is that my work with/honoring of/worship of different deities (depending on what precisely is going on, which varies) is partly context dependent: there are personal deity relationships, but I also have relationships with deities the coven works with/honors, and the same thing with the tradition as a whole. But even with the personal deity relationships, it's a lot like a friendship: sometimes I call friend A to do something, sometimes friend B, and I want to maintain and balance different interactions in a way that works for everyone (ideally).

Some people do this by different ritual modes. I mostly do it by planning what I want to do with who when, and trying to keep a balance. (which does mean that I have months where I go "Argh, must figure out something meaningful to do with X soon.")

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

What helps me with this:

- Divination and other modes of getting information that do not come straight from my own head. (That includes divination from other people, not just me, though my own stuff can be quite helpful in this. Talking things over with other people, ditto)

- A recognition, built over about 5 years, that the really-truly-deep deity experiences come, for me, in modes of interaction that are not my natural forte - I'm normally very much a verbal-audio sort of person, but my major 'this is clearly something outside my own head' experiences are very visual, and to a level of detail I can't produce otherwise. Combined with other input, it's pretty clear that's something outside of me, at least as far as I can tell.

- In appropriate settings, Drawing Down work with the relevant deities (both my doing it, and other people doing it) that produces a consistent-enough result. (Real people - and I think real deities - are not perfectly consistent, and I'd think perfect consistency was a marker for concern. But there's the 'this looks like a consistent personality/wishes/etc.' stuff that is really helpful.)

And most importantly, when Something Happens-- either something you've asked for or something you just know  is out of the ordinary, how do you know who did what? Was it deity A, deity B, deity C, or All of the Above? Do you try and figure out which godly source did the Something, or do you thank them all?

Depends. Did I ask someone specific for something specific? If not, I tend to pay attention to anything worth noticing, but not fret about it too much.

[Nimue]

So, I've recently read a thread here regarding dealing with multiple deities and how other folks set up their altars, do sacrifices and offerings, etc.  It was only semi-helpful to the question that's been paddling around in circles in my mind for a week or so now.

Having gone from basically being a one-god-girl to someone with two more new deities, I am muddled...  One I have definitely been thwapped by, the other... maybe we thwapped each other? At any rate, I've got a few questions.

How have those of you who have relationships with other deities developed those relationships? I find it more difficult to have time to get to know these new goddesses. Do you have any techniques for doing so? What do you do for a deity who is a softer speaker than the other?

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

And most importantly, when Something Happens-- either something you've asked for or something you just know  is out of the ordinary, how do you know who did what? Was it deity A, deity B, deity C, or All of the Above? Do you try and figure out which godly source did the Something, or do you thank them all?

 

For developing relationships, the deities are usually pretty good at guiding that along.  I suggest making a point to do a monthly ritual/offering to each and a nice gesture.  Also, the deities know that the other is also in your life.  Which two are they?  If they are conflicting in nature, that may be part of the problem.

For awhile, I worried I was just making it up, but when stuff started happening that I could not explain, or my "imaginary people" started telling me things that I did not know that I found to be true, that cleared up my doubts.  Another thing that did it for me was that I was at a metaphysical shop, and the owner started talking to me about my black panther.  That is my totem, and I told NO ONE about it.  When stuff like that happens, it clears up the insanity worry.

So to sum up, try not to worry so much.  They chose you, so they will make themselves known in your life as they see fit.  If you are still concerned, try talking to them about it. 

[SunflowerP]

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

Yep.  But, IMO, it's not something to be afraid of - it's less important whether it's true (there are an awful lot of things in religion/spirituality/magic/etc that there's no way to prove conclusively), and more important whether it's useful.  If it isn't useful, you might as well dismiss it, whatever its source; if it is, you might as well make use of it, whatever its source.  Being sourced in a deity doesn't make it more reliable/"real", and being sourced in your subconscious doesn't make it less so; either way, it's much wiser to consider it carefully with your conscious mind rather than just accepting it with little consideration, and either way, it's part of your personal reality.

Sunflower

[NibbleKat]

  I tend to make offerings and perform rituals to all of them at once (unless it's Lughnassad or similar, when I concentrate on the deity being honoured on that day), so I usually get equal amounts of time with all of them.

And to answer your question about knowing Who did What, I return to my example about the decision.  It was easy to tell then, because Manannan pretty much straight-up told me that he was sick of my whining, so he was going to lend me to Aenghus for the week so I could sort it out.  It was fairly easy to tell who had their hands in that particular piece of work  .
But at other times, I've certainly asked who helped me at one point and Manannan, Aenghus and Lugh have all given me the metaphorical innocent eyes and a "Who, me?"
Fairly sure it was one of them, they're not telling who.  Guess I just live with that, puny mortal that I am. 

Hope that was in some small way helpful.

It is helpful... I have trouble focusing my energy on just one, at the moment. Hermes will always be paramount in my affections and attentions, but at the same time, I don't want to offend either of the goddesses I have taken up.  I'd like to develop an "equal" relationship with all three, but maybe that isn't possible... much like with (as folks here have stated) friends. Not every friend is going to be a person's favorite.

I, also am doing offerings for all three at the same time, and am trying to 'talk' to them at the same ritual/prayer/sitting. 

As for your "Who, me?" moments... not only did that make me laugh, I think it's likely from at least ONE of my three deities. Heheh.

I have considered taking a single day at some point in the future just to focus on one of the three... and I wonder if anyone else has done so?

[NibbleKat]

What helps me with this:

- Divination and other modes of getting information that do not come straight from my own head. (That includes divination from other people, not just me, though my own stuff can be quite helpful in this. Talking things over with other people, ditto)

So, if you don't mind me asking, what methods of divination do you currently do? I've got cards, and I do look for signs, but I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to divination of other sorts...

- In appropriate settings, Drawing Down work with the relevant deities (both my doing it, and other people doing it) that produces a consistent-enough result. (Real people - and I think real deities - are not perfectly consistent, and I'd think perfect consistency was a marker for concern. But there's the 'this looks like a consistent personality/wishes/etc.' stuff that is really helpful.)

Again, I'm not familiar with Drawing Down.  I will have to do research... but is it anything like invoking a deity?

[NibbleKat]

For developing relationships, the deities are usually pretty good at guiding that along.  I suggest making a point to do a monthly ritual/offering to each and a nice gesture.  Also, the deities know that the other is also in your life.  Which two are they?  If they are conflicting in nature, that may be part of the problem.

So to sum up, try not to worry so much.  They chose you, so they will make themselves known in your life as they see fit.  If you are still concerned, try talking to them about it. 

Nimue, you make good points.  I don't think that these deities in question are at odds with each other. It's a feeling I get, but I can definitely do a little more prayer/soul searching to find out.  Two at least I feel are laid-back... the third, maybe not so much, but I can't imagine that they are in conflict.

And I'll do more talking with them about trying to hear individuals, not just a big, godly lump. Heh.


SUNFLOWER... I never thought of it in that way.  I guess that makes sense.  It's always nice to have it clear in one's mind, though... as in, I'm not just trying to convince myself that it's okay to do "X thing" when it might not be or whatnot. Sometimes it's nice to know that there's someone else out there being supportive or saying "No, don't do that!" other than myself.  So it makes sense. It's a healthy way to think, to live your life.

Unfortunately, I am a persistent worrier and someone who has to pickpickpick at every thread in every mental garment. Heheheheh.

[Jenett]

So, if you don't mind me asking, what methods of divination do you currently do? I've got cards, and I do look for signs, but I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to divination of other sorts...

Tarot, a self-designed quote deck, occasional other methods depending on the particular question.

Again, I'm not familiar with Drawing Down.  I will have to do research... but is it anything like invoking a deity?

Yes and no - depends on what you mean by invoking. The way I use the term Drawing Down, it means the priestess or priest inviting the deity into their body, and to - some level - influence what's going on. (There can be different levels: everything from a voice in your ear with additional information to a much clearer overlay where the priest/ess's personality is very much in the back seat.)

It's not something to do lightly, without appropriate training, or without appropriate support (and especially aftercare if something goes oddly - things don't need to go badly to have a long-term impact that may not be what someone desired.) However, in the right circumstances, and with that appropriate support, it can be incredibly meaningful and informative in building a relationship with a particular deity. (Again, from either side of the equation: I've had amazing experiences being the priestess doing the Draw, but I've also had really amazing ones being in ritual where someone else did the Draw.)

In terms of getting to know a particular deity, it's usually something that's one of the last steps in building a strong relationship, partly because there are some very real potential risks. (I don't mean 'everything is doomed' but more like 'it's a bit like driving a strange car on unfamiliar roads in a drizzle'. Stuff might be just fine, and you'll get there safely, but there's also a lot of unpredictability in the equation, and what might happen is affected by that. You can do stuff to improve the good outcomes, but some of that is more work than others.)

The exercise I realise I didn't mention, but have gotten a lot out of, is one the group I trained with requires - each month, students are required to study a given deity (deities the group works with regularly, or who for various reasons come up in group interactions more regularly, mostly) and write up a short summary - major associations, summary of major myths, attributes, etc. But they're also required to do some sort of creative project associated with that deity. People have done everything from art to poetry to music to gardening to creating an oil blend to .. well, you get the idea. It's often that piece - when we get our head out of the way of the relationship a bit - that can be particularly powerful and effective.

[Nimue]

I, also am doing offerings for all three at the same time, and am trying to 'talk' to them at the same ritual/prayer/sitting. 

That might be most of your problem right there, it can be difficult in the beginning to separate the different energies of deities, especially if you have not worked with them for long.  I really do recommend trying them one at a time, for a month or two at least.  I have a few deities I work with, but I almost never deal with more than one at a time, unless I have a ritual that I need extra help.

[NibbleKat]

Tarot, a self-designed quote deck, occasional other methods depending on the particular question.

Yes and no - depends on what you mean by invoking. The way I use the term Drawing Down, it means the priestess or priest inviting the deity into their body, and to - some level - influence what's going on. (There can be different levels: everything from a voice in your ear with additional information to a much clearer overlay where the priest/ess's personality is very much in the back seat.)

It's not something to do lightly, without appropriate training, or without appropriate support (and especially aftercare if something goes oddly - things don't need to go badly to have a long-term impact that may not be what someone desired.) However, in the right circumstances, and with that appropriate support, it can be incredibly meaningful and informative in building a relationship with a particular deity. (Again, from either side of the equation: I've had amazing experiences being the priestess doing the Draw, but I've also had really amazing ones being in ritual where someone else did the Draw.)

In terms of getting to know a particular deity, it's usually something that's one of the last steps in building a strong relationship, partly because there are some very real potential risks. (I don't mean 'everything is doomed' but more like 'it's a bit like driving a strange car on unfamiliar roads in a drizzle'. Stuff might be just fine, and you'll get there safely, but there's also a lot of unpredictability in the equation, and what might happen is affected by that. You can do stuff to improve the good outcomes, but some of that is more work than others.)

The exercise I realise I didn't mention, but have gotten a lot out of, is one the group I trained with requires - each month, students are required to study a given deity (deities the group works with regularly, or who for various reasons come up in group interactions more regularly, mostly) and write up a short summary - major associations, summary of major myths, attributes, etc. But they're also required to do some sort of creative project associated with that deity. People have done everything from art to poetry to music to gardening to creating an oil blend to .. well, you get the idea. It's often that piece - when we get our head out of the way of the relationship a bit - that can be particularly powerful and effective.

Oh, yeah, I definitely don't think I have enough experience with the Drawing Down thing. I tried something really similar when I was much younger with Hermes, and that threw my life into CHAOS. Hehehheh. I will read up on it, however...

In terms of studying, I do a lot of that... I try to study one of these two deities at a time, and though I don't do the writing project, I do paint.  (I have a thread in the art forum here that has my latest piece, which is of Sirona) So... I think that by doing that, you're right, that's going to help. It solidifies the deity in my  head.... but unfortunately, I can't quite get what I see out on the woodblock... I haven't been able to paint Hermes for years!

NIMUE... I will take your advice into hand!


Is there anyone else out there who has any other advice?

[SatAset]

How have those of you who have relationships with other deities developed those relationships? I find it more difficult to have time to get to know these new goddesses. Do you have any techniques for doing so? What do you do for a deity who is a softer speaker than the other?

I keep being afraid that my subconscious mind is making up personalities to deal with different issues of my own personality, rather than actually having a deity speak to me. Have you had this thought?

And most importantly, when Something Happens-- either something you've asked for or something you just know  is out of the ordinary, how do you know who did what? Was it deity A, deity B, deity C, or All of the Above? Do you try and figure out which godly source did the Something, or do you thank them all?

When I get to know any deity, I tend to read up on that deity first.  Then I read up on how to offer to him/her and do so. 

Aset and Nebet Het are two of my main Kemetic deities.  They are opposites.  Aset is first for me and not so subtle, and Nebet Het is very subtle.   I pay attention to Aset the most and then Nebet Het when She wants something or when it is Her feast day or when I need to ask Her for something. 

I've found that the gods come to people who need them or resonate with them on some level.  So I think it is definitely fitting that you are finding some parallels. 

Sometimes the deities will tell me which one helped me.  I sometimes thank all of them or ask the deities which one of them helped me.  If it is something specific that I've asked for, I thank the deity I asked to help me first.  Then I'd ask if there is anyone else I need to thank for any assistance. 

[Jenett]

Oh, yeah, I definitely don't think I have enough experience with the Drawing Down thing. I tried something really similar when I was much younger with Hermes, and that threw my life into CHAOS. Hehehheh. I will read up on it, however...

As I said, really not something to do without appropriate support and aftercare (it's also not a thing where there's necessarily a lot of *point* if you're the only person there, for a variety of reasons.) Deep meditation work of specific kinds can be just as effective for solo work, and has a lot less in the way of risks or potential concerns.

In terms of studying, I do a lot of that... I try to study one of these two deities at a time, and though I don't do the writing project, I do paint.  (I have a thread in the art forum here that has my latest piece, which is of Sirona) So... I think that by doing that, you're right, that's going to help. It solidifies the deity in my  head.... but unfortunately, I can't quite get what I see out on the woodblock... I haven't been able to paint Hermes for years!

I'd encourage you to consider projects other than a direct visual representation of the deity, too - those can be great, but they're also only one facet. If you're feeling stuck getting to know them, trying a different approach might work. Some of my projects included music and lyrics, but also graphic design work, calligraphy, and some other things that took words, phrases, things associated with a deity and combined them in a particular way.

[Nimue]

Oh, yeah, I definitely don't think I have enough experience with the Drawing Down thing. I tried something really similar when I was much younger with Hermes, and that threw my life into CHAOS. Hehehheh. I will read up on it, however...

I suggest starting invoking a deity that is very mild mannered and gentle.  Hermes is one of my favorite deities, but he is a trickster, and he will play games on people.  I highly suggest you avoid invoking more than one deity at a time until you are used to a variety of energies.

[NibbleKat]

When I get to know any deity, I tend to read up on that deity first.  Then I read up on how to offer to him/her and do so. 
Aset and Nebet Het are two of my main Kemetic deities.
I've found that the gods come to people who need them or resonate with them on some level.  So I think it is definitely fitting that you are finding some parallels. 

Do you find a lot of information on Aset and Nebet Het? Just out of curiosity, really. 
With my two Celtic ones, there's not that much left to read about. I've pretty much found everything I think I can (there's always more!) on them. A huge part of how I relate to deities is how much I know about them. It drives me insane that I can't find as much info on these two as I can Hermes. So, do your deities have loads of stuff, or no? Do they get along, since they are opposites, or no?

Jenett
You know, your exercises you're talking about would be a great new thread. I'd love it if you started one!

Nimue

HA! Yes, I learned my lesson quick with him. He's never been nasty or mean or anything like that with me, but if I need to learn something, he'll teach me, very, very fast. Sometimes it's hard love, but never hurtful, you know?

As for Sirona and Sequana, I'll have to learn more about them first before I even consider invoking them... because I don't truly know how gentle they are, if that makes sense. And I don't have really anyone I can practice with much, so it makes it difficult. Have you ever done any invoking? Did it go well?

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