Close Encounters of the Fundy Kind

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[Adoratrix]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

I met my first one quite recently. We're both students at the same university and we even have some courses in common but I never really talked to her until one morning, we just started chatting on the bus. I was reading something for class and she whipped out her Bible.

When we got off to transfer routes, she started asking me questions about what I believe. At first, I skirted the issue and said Protestant, born and raised but then decided to be honest and identified as a ploytheist. As we got on our way, she whipped out her Bible again and tried to make me read certain underlined passages aloud, on a crowded bus, and could not accept that I found that vastly inappropriate. So, she put it away and we got to the trick questions portion of the event. "How do pagans get saved?" "What do you think will happen when you die?" and all that Sneaky Deep crap. I was too surprised to be offended and I answered the best I could.

Eventually, we went our separate ways for different classes and that was the last time I talked to her. In hindsight, it was probably Someone's influence that kept me as surprised as I was. Looking back on it now, I'm really irritated with her and anything I say now is probably going to reinforce her negative view of non-Christians. Oh well, I have until September to get past the urge to taunt.

Edit: Blast! Wrong area. Could someone move this to "Non-Pagans and Interfaith"? Thanks.

[Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)]

Edit: Blast! Wrong area. Could someone move this to "Non-Pagans and Interfaith"? Thanks.

Well, I tried, but my staff-foo isn't very good yet.  I got to the move topic screen okay, but then I couldn't find 'Non-Pagans and Interfaith'.  There were some other ones there, but I couldn't decide if any of them would be better than here.

Maybe a more experienced staff member will come along and move it, or say it's fine here or something.

Sorry,

Absent

[EverFool]

Well, I tried, but my staff-foo isn't very good yet.  I got to the move topic screen okay, but then I couldn't find 'Non-Pagans and Interfaith'.  There were some other ones there, but I couldn't decide if any of them would be better than here.

Maybe a more experienced staff member will come along and move it, or say it's fine here or something.

Sorry,

Absent

Its been moved.

[WarHorse]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

Not yet - at least, not since I discovered my Path.

People like that, who believe that the history and mind of their God can be gleaned from a single volume, seem to have some fundamental (pun intended) insecurity that makes them want to press their beliefs onto others to validate their claim.

I'm not much of a taunting-type person, but sometimes one can't help one's self.

[Star]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

Not...  as such.  Not as a Pagan, certainly.  I've been very lucky, I suppose, in that I just haven't run into the kind of raving fundies that other people describe.  *shrug*  Well, OK, except occasionally here at TC, but that's a whole different issue, I think, and hasn't happened that often.

The closest I can come is that in high school, when I was still Christian, I knew a fundie kid who was convinced that Stephen King was the physical incarnation of Satan.  His logic, IIRC, started with the part where thinking about committing adultery (sp?) was just as bad as actually doing it.  He translated "just as bad as" into "the same as" and applied the same line of reasoning to murder.  He also seemed to think that if King was writing about all these murders and things, King must be fantasizing about doing the killing himself, and therefore as guilty as if he'd actually done it.  End result:  Stephen King was, in his mind, the biggest mass murderer he could think of, and I guess somehow that led naturally (for him) into "incarnation of Satan".

The rest of our little group was too flabbergasted when we heard this to put up much argument, I'm afraid.  We tried a few explanations about how writing a novel about something isn't the same as wanting to actually do that something yourself, but he couldn't seem to understand that and we couldn't come up with anything better on the spot.  The whole thing was just too bizzare to argue effectively with.

[V]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

I'll bet almost everyone with a brain can tell a story!  I personally think these folks glimpse the "part" but then they lose their deja-vu moment and interprete the experience as having been the "whole".  Does that make any sense?

I knew an old guy (nice, but kinda creepy) who had been Christian all his life but had experiences with the energies of stones and crystals.  He absolutely thought that folding his crystal-experiences into his Christianity created a complete package--why would anyone want anything besides what he had found?

Anyway, this guy had put up some sort of box in his back yard.  And, I think, he had put some crystals in there too.  And what he wanted more than anything else in the world was to get people to come sit in his box.  Needless to say, nobody wanted to go to his house and sit inside his box.  It made him mad as hell because: "If you'd just open yourself to truth, you would find it!"  I'm not making this story up!  So help me Goddess!

Another story:  I work part-time delivering food for a restaurant.  One of our regular customers started going to a new (christian) church--which, of course, I didn't know until I got to her apartment.  Anyway, she paid me for the food (an envelope stuffed with $19 in pennies, nickles, and dimes) and made a big production out of saying, "I've found the light and it's finally been explained to me that tipping is a sin.  All my tips now go to God!" 

Of course, I wanted with all my heart and soul to say, "Well, then God can deliver your food."  But I couldn't say it because we have a policy against responding this way.  Anyway, I was busy and there was no way I was going to stand there and count the money, so I took the envelope and went back to the store to count it.  When I dumped the envelope, inside was about $18.50 AND a picture of Jesus suffering on the cross.  Since I had to make up the 50 cents out of my tips, I was angry.  I made a production out of ripping up the Jesus picture and throwing it in the trash.  All the servers (mostly teens) laughed because they'd never seen me angry before, but I know several of them were very nervous about my making Jesus confetti.

If you're thinking that it really sucks that I couldn't (didn't) come back to her with a snappy retort, then let me leave you with a better image:  Picture me (a 53-year-old grandma-type) seeing that I have a delivery to this non-tipping lady.  See how carefully I handle her food.  See how I am sooo careful to keep it upright.  (Oops, didn't mean to upend it.)  Now see how carefully I carry her 2-liters of soda--wouldn't want to shake them up.  (oops--damn)

[Adoratrix]

Its been moved.

Merci. 

[Adoratrix]

Not yet - at least, not since I discovered my Path.

I'm not much of a taunting-type person, but sometimes one can't help one's self.

I usually only tease people (gently) if I know I can get a rise out of them and hoo! The reactions I'd get outta her. Mwahaha!

[Adoratrix]

The closest I can come is that in high school, when I was still Christian, I knew a fundie kid who was convinced that Stephen King was the physical incarnation of Satan.  His logic, IIRC, started with the part where thinking about committing adultery (sp?) was just as bad as actually doing it.  He translated "just as bad as" into "the same as" and applied the same line of reasoning to murder.  He also seemed to think that if King was writing about all these murders and things, King must be fantasizing about doing the killing himself, and therefore as guilty as if he'd actually done it.  End result:  Stephen King was, in his mind, the biggest mass murderer he could think of, and I guess somehow that led naturally (for him) into "incarnation of Satan".

Dude! It would be morbidly fascinating to see where that kid is now.

[Adoratrix]

I'll bet almost everyone with a brain can tell a story!  I personally think these folks glimpse the "part" but then they lose their deja-vu moment and interprete the experience as having been the "whole".  Does that make any sense?

I think I get it. People have this one amazing, life-altering experience that was so wonderful and different than anything else they'd ever had. But they project their insecurities onto it and believe that if they question it or try to look at it from another perspective, it will lose what made it so great in the first place and they won't get it back.

Another story:  I work part-time delivering food for a restaurant.  One of our regular customers started going to a new (christian) church--which, of course, I didn't know until I got to her apartment.  Anyway, she paid me for the food (an envelope stuffed with $19 in pennies, nickles, and dimes) and made a big production out of saying, "I've found the light and it's finally been explained to me that tipping is a sin.  All my tips now go to God!" 

If you're thinking that it really sucks that I couldn't (didn't) come back to her with a snappy retort, then let me leave you with a better image:  Picture me (a 53-year-old grandma-type) seeing that I have a delivery to this non-tipping lady.  See how carefully I handle her food.  See how I am sooo careful to keep it upright.  (Oops, didn't mean to upend it.)  Now see how carefully I carry her 2-liters of soda--wouldn't want to shake them up.  (oops--damn)

That's awesome! Toss it around once for me!

[Star]

Dude! It would be morbidly fascinating to see where that kid is now.

Last I heard, happily married, participating in Civil War reenactment (figure that one out--how writing about murder is the same as doing it, but reenacting war isn't the same as killing by the same logic), and possibly headed toward seminary.  The last time I saw him, he seemed to have toned it down a little, but I still avoided the topic of religion. 

[MelanieS]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

In my youth, I have said some things to others that I'm really not proud of now. For example - there's this church that calls themselves Pentecostal but they're also Assembly of God and every year around Halloween they do this "drama" about Jesus and the devil. Well, I was driving by their church one year and they had all these people dressed as angels advertising the "drama" standing on the street corner. An angel came up to my car and started telling me I needed to come inside and see it to save my soul.. blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I told the angel to go to hell. Bad choice of words. He looked shocked - he might have even started to cry a bit. I'm not really proud of that. And I didn't even really mean it like that - I just wanted him to go away cause he was blocking my car and I needed to get to work.

Now, unless the fundy is a person I care about, I'm not going to waste any time talking to them. I have my ideas that are for the most part pretty set in stone and so do they. If they're ideas are based in hate, why would I bother - I don't want to associate with that. Most of the time though they really believe what they are saying and it isn't hate - they believe what they are saying just as much as I would believe what I would be saying if I choose to engage - so it would be pointless. Or you've got someone who is just so misguided and confused no amount of logic and fact is going to penetrate their hard shell of ignorance. How do you argue with someone who really believes there were no dinosaurs? I'm not going to. That's time I'll never get back.

Melanie

[sailor_tech]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

Yes. Roommate in college, a couple of people in the Bible study group run by the college chaplain, and to a lessor extent the chaplain himself.

Room mate was more concerned with my D&D books than with the copy of Crowley's "Magik in Theory and Practice." Probably since he'd never heard of Crowley, but had heard of D&D from his church.

The Bible group was much more fun.  A few times the chaplain would say something and I"d point out how he was interpreting it in a wrong, out of context or outside of tradition way. To make matters worse, his wife was a specialist in the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testement) and generally agreed with my interptations.

[WarHorse]

Anyway, I told the angel to go to hell.

  ROFL!

[Guenthecat]

Have you ever matched wits with a fundamentalist (of any religion)? Lived to tell about it?

Well, I grew up Church of Christ in Arkansas, so my family rates up there pretty high as Very conservative Christians and as such I was raised in a hot bed of a few fundies.  My dad's now a preacher for the C of C.  Almost Fundie, but not quite there.  Still really irritating, though.  Especially when his denomination members are SURE about the Church of Christ's revisionist church history.  Fortunately my family is educated and doesn't buy that part, they just preach the Gospel.

And about a year ago I almost married into a Fundie 7th Day Adventist family.  *shudders*  It was horrible.  I felt so bad for my fiance.  His mother would call him every single day to scream at him over how he was going to hell.  Even after he did finally convert back to Christianity.  She still wasn't happy.  Because he worshiped on Sunday which made him a "Sun worshiper" and therefore he was going stright to hell.  I remember his Christmation (I think i have that right) when he finally convinced her and her husband to come.  His friends and I all just sat there watching in fear that they would make a scene.  They did behave themselves, but it was a really stressful day.  After that she and I had a private talk (the only one we ever had) in the rose garden I was keeping at his house about her fears with the religion.  And I asked her if she realized just how important it was for him to finally have some of her support.  And I asked her if she realized that the whole conversion was for her because he desperately wanted her approval, but he just couldn't be 7th Day Adventist again.  Shortly after that, as in 3 weeks, I ended up leaving him because he had quickly turned into a Very Fundamentalist and yet Very Hypocritical Orthodox Christian.  But I think his mother finally found some way to at least partially approve.

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