How important is reconstruction?

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[Hyacinth Belle]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

[Tana]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

First question is, is it possible at all?
Second question is, is it useful?

Meanwhile I came to the answers No and No.
Just one witch's opinion and everybody else's mileage my vary greatly on this.

But I think, even when a reconstruction of a ritual or a ceremony is possible, isn't it just going through the motions? I can't have the same social and cultural set of mind as the 'old ones' did and even if their religions would have lived on through modern times - who could possibly belief that they wouldn't have changed?

Again, everybody can do what floats his boat, but for me reconstruction is not do-able, if the original context ist totally non-existent anymore.

[Nimue]

But I think, even when a reconstruction of a ritual or a ceremony is possible, isn't it just going through the motions? I can't have the same social and cultural set of mind as the 'old ones' did and even if their religions would have lived on through modern times - who could possibly belief that they wouldn't have changed?

True, what a modern person expects from a deity or religion tends to be different than what people long ago did.  Personal fulfillment or happiness with a certain spiritual path does not seem to be as much of a priority as appeasing a deity or asking for the things necessary to survive.  That is not to say I don't think reconstruction has its' value; after all, it is at the very least reviving pieces of history that are almost forgotten.

[UlsterYank]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

That's a good question, because I come across it a lot. Being a Gaelic Traditionalist, I don't have a need to reconstruct anything, living in a thriving Gaelic culture. Obviously I have a different approach than a lot of reconstructionists, but solely reconstructing certain practices from a stagnant period of time doesn't have as much meaning to me as surviving contemporary traditions, even if they've been given a Christian veneer.   

I come across many CR's that are solely interested in what can be PROVEN to have been practised pre-Paddy, neglecting other aspects of modern culture that may have survived, because despite it currently being a breathing element of Gaelic culture, could "have" been influenced.   

[Tana]

Yes, good points, I forgot.

First there are things that have survived, you just have to find them.

And second: reconstructing when? Because ye olde cultures did change and adept too.
Just picking one certain century seems meaningless to me.

[Hyacinth Belle]

First question is, is it possible at all?
Second question is, is it useful?

<snip>

and even if their religions would have lived on through modern times - who could possibly belief that they wouldn't have changed?

Good points! I suppose one would have to clarify "possible" here... yes, I think it is possible to approximate what people did back then. I also think it's possible to approximate the mindset and values of cultures with written records (no clue how one would go about it without them!). But as you mentioned, we don't have the same cultural climate anymore, so it's really just "going through the motions."

Ok, so if reconstruction means approximating the actions and values of a certain place and time... then yes, I think it's possible. If reconstruction means wholly embodying that, then I don't think it's possible because it will always be resurrecting something which has passed.

So then, is it useful? To me, it is. Something about the Norse culture resonates with me, not even including its gods. And I'm NOT one of those people who wants to dress like them and learn how to weave or recreate other technology from that time, etc. But it resonates with me... so why wouldn't I pursue it?

[alleyesonazarath]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

1. Do you think it's important?

   I think its important to develop an understanding of such movements, but with a grain of salt. There is knowledge to be learned, and experienced to be gained, from reconstruction groups. That said, I think it would be negating positive cultural evolution to just look to the past.


2. What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction.

   If anything, I think I would have more of a deconstructionist path. I don't deny that there are truths in what my ancestors believed in, as well as what some modern reconstructionists believe today. For me though, it is because everything changes with time, that my spiritual quest makes me stay away from following any recon path directly. However, that doesn't change me having interest in them.

   Does drinking meade count as a recon practice? If so, then I guess I'm more of a recon than I thought.   

[gorm_sionnach]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

I do think it is important, at least to Reconstructionists, and that's the rub isn't it. I am a recon, I think the Reconstructionist methodology is both a worthwhile and effective means of approximating as closely as possible pre-Christian religious beliefs, practices, etc. Of course, the incorporation of living cultural practices goes a long way to bridge gaps, for those cultures where there has been (possible) survivals from a given period. I think that if one wishes to worship the gods of a particular culture, from a specific period, then trying to find as much information and developing rituals as closely as possible to that source culture is a good way to go about practicing a religion. Pouring over sources and eking out scraps of information isn't everybody's cup of tea, to be sure, but it works for me.

Having said that if one wants to worship, lets say Celtic deities, and does not use a reconstructionist methodology there isn't anything wrong with that either.

[veggiewolf]

I do think it is important, at least to Reconstructionists, and that's the rub isn't it. I am a recon, I think the Reconstructionist methodology is both a worthwhile and effective means of approximating as closely as possible pre-Christian religious beliefs, practices, etc...

As a non-Recon, though, how closely can anyone reconstruct when the culture/day/age is so different?

[gorm_sionnach]

As a non-Recon, though, how closely can anyone reconstruct when the culture/day/age is so different?

A difficult question. Total reconstruction I think is nigh impossible, but does that mean that it isn't worth the effort to try and get it as close as possible, I think it is. Trying to base ones practices on the available sources is a fairly sensible means of going about it I think. Trying to understand the world view of a given culture from within its own cultural context is something historians and anthropologists have been doing for centuries, so again while it may be difficult, and not wholly correct, getting as close as possible is a laudable goal, imho.

[Star]

As a non-Recon, though, how closely can anyone reconstruct when the culture/day/age is so different?

I think here it's important to draw the line between "reconstruction" and "replication".  We can't exactly replicate what the ancients did.  What we can do is use what information we have as a foundation on which to build (or construct, as it were) a modern religious practice.  Ideally that will include practices and beliefs that are as close in form as possible to their ancient counterparts.  It also means understanding why those things were done so that when necessary you can find a modern practice that is in the same spirit as the ancient one even if it doesn't take exactly the same form.

An example from my Greek practice that comes to mind is the festival of Thargelia, which has a focus on purification.  In ancient times, this involved driving two (human) scapegoats out of the city as an act of purifying the city.  We can't really do that because, well, we don't have whole cities of Hellenic worshippers for one thing.  I suspect there are other cultural factors that have changed that would affect it as well, but that's the most obvious one to me.  We'd run out of Hellenic worshippers very quickly if we did that today.  So today people accomplish this in a different way, by burning representations of those ancient scapegoats or by purifying themselves in other ways.  The goal of purification is still accomplished, it just looks a bit different now than it did then.

[Melamphoros]

How do you view the role of reconstruction in your religion (and I suppose non-Asatru people should feel free to answer too!)? Do you think it's important? What do you do in your own practice as reconstruction?

I take an academically-informed approach to the Gods and worship, but I do not call myself a recon.  Mainly because at the moment, I'm not trying to reconstruct anything but am starting from scratch if that makes sense.

[Hyacinth Belle]

I think here it's important to draw the line between "reconstruction" and "replication".  

I was about to come post something along these lines! For me anyway, reconstruction (and I'm only *loosely* recon myself!) isn't about doing every teeny little thing and deluding myself into thinking I'm a Viking princess or something. The SCA seems like fun, but that's not my religion. It's about doing both parts of the word 'reconstruction'.... you're constructing something, but doing it in a way that looks towards the past. Dictionary.com gives the definition of reconstruction as "to  construct  again;  rebuild;  make  over."

I see reconstruction giving a layered effect to whatever you're doing. You keep the past in mind in the present; you look at the past through the lens of its future. And thereby you make something new and set a new precedent. For some people, not all but some, this type of mindset and work ring true. I don't necessarily have a concrete, "touche!" answer for WHY someone would follow a recon path. I believe it's just a personal thing.

[catja6]

I've said this before, but I think there's a huge difference betwen reconstruction as a methodology -- privileging academic sources to recreate a reasonably historically accurate religious experience -- and what can be called the Reconstructionist Belief Community.  The methodology I have no trouble with whatsoever; the RBC, however, is another matter entirely.

The RBC has a really nasty tendency to solidify certain strata of material, and the work of certain scholars, into an orthodoxy.  It also has real difficulty adapting to the realities of scholarship, which is that it's always changing and evolving -- and that different interpretations of the same material are perfectly normal and expected within scholarship. 

The RBC is also really obsessed with differentiating themselves from Wiccans -- not in and of itself a bad thing, especially because of the creeping universalizing tendencies of certain parts of NeoWicca -- but that political agenda sometimes winds up overriding the actual scholarship that the RBC claims to prize.  The big, obvious example is that, within the last 10-15 years or so, there has been an ENORMOUS boom in scholarship on ancient magical practices, and how they interacted with religion.  And this scholarship directly contradicts the old RBC orthodoxy that "Greek and Roman religion never had ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with magic, nosirree.  WE'RE NOT WICCANS, DAMMIT."  But there are a bunch of respected scholars pointing out that hey, Greek and Roman religion was not all that monolithic, and that there were decent chunks of the populace that were happily combining magical and religious practices.   That's the biggest issue I've noticed, but there are certainly others.   

[Melamphoros]

I've said this before, but I think there's a huge difference betwen reconstruction as a methodology -- privileging academic sources to recreate a reasonably historically accurate religious experience -- and what can be called the Reconstructionist Belief Community.  The methodology I have no trouble with whatsoever; the RBC, however, is another matter entirely.

The RBC has a really nasty tendency to solidify certain strata of material, and the work of certain scholars, into an orthodoxy.  It also has real difficulty adapting to the realities of scholarship, which is that it's always changing and evolving -- and that different interpretations of the same material are perfectly normal and expected within scholarship. 

The RBC is also really obsessed with differentiating themselves from Wiccans -- not in and of itself a bad thing, especially because of the creeping universalizing tendencies of certain parts of NeoWicca -- but that political agenda sometimes winds up overriding the actual scholarship that the RBC claims to prize.  The big, obvious example is that, within the last 10-15 years or so, there has been an ENORMOUS boom in scholarship on ancient magical practices, and how they interacted with religion.  And this scholarship directly contradicts the old RBC orthodoxy that "Greek and Roman religion never had ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with magic, nosirree.  WE'RE NOT WICCANS, DAMMIT."  But there are a bunch of respected scholars pointing out that hey, Greek and Roman religion was not all that monolithic, and that there were decent chunks of the populace that were happily combining magical and religious practices.   That's the biggest issue I've noticed, but there are certainly others.   

^^^^What she said.

I personally take an academically-informed approach to the Gods, but I don't consider myself a recon by any means.  Mainly because I'm not exactly sure about my beliefs beyond "hard polytheist."

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