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Author Topic: Divorce and neopaganism  (Read 5522 times)
theperfumer
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« Reply #15: July 21, 2010, 09:58:42 am »

So does anyone have any questions or comments about the project itself?
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« Reply #16: July 21, 2010, 10:01:54 am »

Which I tend to generally agree with, but I guess I'm not getting why it's such a big deal, if two people consider themselves married, to go down to the courthouse and file the appropriate papers.  Don't have to make a big occasion of it, but if you're functioning as a married couple and consider yourselves to be married, and you're legally eligible to be married to each other, I'm not understanding why the objection to putting it in writing.

Not all such people *are* legally eligible to be married to each other - consider same-sex couples in most of the United States.

And, fundamentally, I think that people shouldn't have to.  This is one of those places that I want to thump on things and mutter crazy stuff like "usurpation of rights belonging to the people" (and I don't even believe in the concept of rights!) and "creeping tyranny".  It's ... one of those decisions where I kind of twitch at the idea that it's normal to submit it for state approval.

As I said, I see the valid reasons for wanting some level of oversight where the legal stuff is concerned, though state-defined marriage is ... ... emotionally problematic for me as someone with two husbands according to my standards of social contract, shall we say.  But the idea that legitimacy in a relationship is defined by whether or not one has submitted one's decision to marry for state approval, that bugs me.
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« Reply #17: July 21, 2010, 10:10:52 am »

Not all such people *are* legally eligible to be married to each other - consider same-sex couples in most of the United States.

Yes, I know; that's why I said "if".  I wasn't under the impression that common-law marriages, which is what we were discussing, would grant legal benefits of marriage to people whose relationships fell outside the state's definition of marriage anyway, so that didn't seem to me to be a factor in the question of whether abolishing common-law marriage was a bad thing or not.  Who should be allowed to enter into a marriage contract is a whole other question, and like you I generally think the state should keep their nose out of it.  (I don't object to legal marriage, but I think that the state should provide people with the legal tools to recognize the relationships that they choose to form, rather than seeing marriage as a stamp of approval only available to those whose relationships conform to certain standards.)

...But the OP is right, we're getting way off-track here, and it's kind of derailing the thread.  I'm up for continuing this discussion, but would suggest we might want to take it to another thread so that we don't hijack things any further.  (Sorry, theperfumer.)
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« Reply #18: July 21, 2010, 10:19:10 am »

Yes, I know; that's why I said "if".  I wasn't under the impression that common-law marriages, which is what we were discussing, would grant legal benefits of marriage to people whose relationships fell outside the state's definition of marriage anyway, so that didn't seem to me to be a factor in the question of whether abolishing common-law marriage was a bad thing or not.  Who should be allowed to enter into a marriage contract is a whole other question, and like you I generally think the state should keep their nose out of it.  (I don't object to legal marriage, but I think that the state should provide people with the legal tools to recognize the relationships that they choose to form, rather than seeing marriage as a stamp of approval only available to those whose relationships conform to certain standards.)

...But the OP is right, we're getting way off-track here, and it's kind of derailing the thread.  I'm up for continuing this discussion, but would suggest we might want to take it to another thread so that we don't hijack things any further.  (Sorry, theperfumer.)

Apology accepted, and thank you, Star. This does point out one of the hairier areas of the book I'm dealing with. I am focusing on the spiritual perspective, and I do allow for same sex partnerships in my research. During my first marriage I was frequently asked if I was "handfasted, or really married," and I was astonished anyone made a distinction beyond the year-and-a-day that's common in my area.

I'm not a lawyer, and I try to focus on the spiritual rather than legal ramifications of divorce because there are just way too many of the latter to account for, and I've already gotten interest on the topic from people beyond the US. That said, I do have a lawyer who happens to be Pagan and who specializes in Pagan law who has volunteered to be interviewed for the project, and now I know two major things I need to ask him - how divorce applies to common law, and what's going on with same sex marriages when the partners want to end them!
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« Reply #19: July 21, 2010, 11:51:53 am »

Which I tend to generally agree with, but I guess I'm not getting why it's such a big deal, if two people consider themselves married, to go down to the courthouse and file the appropriate papers.  Don't have to make a big occasion of it, but if you're functioning as a married couple and consider yourselves to be married, and you're legally eligible to be married to each other, I'm not understanding why the objection to putting it in writing.

Then again, I have no experience with the "just file the papers and don't make an occasion of it" way of getting married, so I'm also not familiar with what issues and potential problems might be inherent in that process.  Maybe there are factors I'm just not taking into consideration?

The SO and I are not married - even though we act in all respects (except no joint bank accounts) as if we were - because WA is a community property state and he is paying child support until next June.  And I make more than double what she does (thank you BA degree).

On the original subject - I will go and take the survey based on my first marriage of 15 years (11 years divorced).
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theperfumer
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« Reply #20: July 21, 2010, 12:02:27 pm »

The SO and I are not married - even though we act in all respects (except no joint bank accounts) as if we were - because WA is a community property state and he is paying child support until next June.  And I make more than double what she does (thank you BA degree).

On the original subject - I will go and take the survey based on my first marriage of 15 years (11 years divorced).

Thank you!
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« Reply #21: July 21, 2010, 12:19:17 pm »

Thank you!

Interesting survey.  Unemotional for me, but time has passed.
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« Reply #22: July 21, 2010, 05:23:16 pm »

Apology accepted, and thank you, Star. This does point out one of the hairier areas of the book I'm dealing with. I am focusing on the spiritual perspective, and I do allow for same sex partnerships in my research. During my first marriage I was frequently asked if I was "handfasted, or really married," and I was astonished anyone made a distinction beyond the year-and-a-day that's common in my area.

I'm not a lawyer, and I try to focus on the spiritual rather than legal ramifications of divorce because there are just way too many of the latter to account for, and I've already gotten interest on the topic from people beyond the US. That said, I do have a lawyer who happens to be Pagan and who specializes in Pagan law who has volunteered to be interviewed for the project, and now I know two major things I need to ask him - how divorce applies to common law, and what's going on with same sex marriages when the partners want to end them!

New thread on common law started in political forum.
http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=13427.0
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