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Author Topic: UPG Gods/Otherworldly Entities  (Read 6226 times)
NibbleKat
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« Reply #15: August 06, 2010, 04:14:16 pm »

(Hah, that might explain it then.  I just remembered seeing the name. Wink )

It's a thing.  I was hanging with my Lady for ten years or so before I got enough of a tip-off to figure out Who She was - a part of a pantheon I would never have looked into without the nudge I got from a different direction.  And it's not like Hetharu is an obscure goddess!  (Perun, who my above post was describing, is comparatively obscure, though - except perhaps to people of Slavic heritage who have looked into their ancestral gods!)

I so read that as "Rerun", and was taken back to old episodes of "What's Happenin'." No disrespect intended... but it's been one of those mentally absent days for me.

At any rate, MY current problem is with knowing of two goddesses, but trying to figure out if they're the same deity under different names... a slightly nit-pickier version of "Who's That God?"   Undecided
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Altair
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« Reply #16: August 07, 2010, 12:27:11 am »

Altair, your contribution intrigued me. Care to explain your concept of deity? Smiley

I irreverently self-identify as a "Carvel polytheist": semisoft, with a twist (those familiar with the soft-serve ice cream chain will get the reference).

Which means I think there are vast forces flowing in me and through me and around me, forces beyond my comprehension. To try to get a handle on them, I personify them, give them names, and attach stories to them that reveal a bit of what they're about. In other words, I see them as deities, metaphors that give me a glimpse of these forces, however imperfectly. I don't take these metaphors literally, and yet for me, there's deep truth in them. The empirical reality and the spiritual reality coexist.

The "twist" is that, IMHO, our beliefs and thoughts are integral to the shape of reality. So in perceiving these deities, they become real; a part of that vast force differentiates into something resembling what I conceive. (Sort of like how in quantum physics, the act of observation alters the state of matter so that certain undefined characteristics become quantifiable. I'm explaining that badly, but hopefully you get the idea.)

My local deity Verdanus is a good, simplified example. There's a tremedous amount of energy, real (I tend it, it gives me food) and psychological (serenity, joy, connectedness to other living things), flowing between me and my garden. I felt compelled to name that energy, to give it form and substance, and to hang a green man as a representation of it. Is Verdanus literally real? Nope, not in any scientific, quantifiable sense. Is he real to me? Is there a deep truth I can feel every time I step into the garden? Sure.

Since I feel a cultural disconnect to existing pantheons, I never felt comfortable with those embodiments of the vast forces I feel. So, as with Verdanus, I came up with my own, myths and all. So my gods are unique to me.
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« Reply #17: August 07, 2010, 05:53:41 am »

The "twist" is that, IMHO, our beliefs and thoughts are integral to the shape of reality. So in perceiving these deities, they become real; a part of that vast force differentiates into something resembling what I conceive. (Sort of like how in quantum physics, the act of observation alters the state of matter so that certain undefined characteristics become quantifiable. I'm explaining that badly, but hopefully you get the idea.)


I believe this too, but that leads me to a a concept that is often found in pagan books that confuses me.  Many say that Satan does not exist, it is solely a construct of the monotheistic religions.  However, if so many millions of people do believe in this being, would that not make it real?  I know that can be countered that it is a person's own point of view that creates the reality, but personally I would not be surprised if there was a creature called Satan running around the astral plane.  I am just confused why people (namely the authors of these books) are so willing to acknowledge the existence of so many other beings, and even every other spirit found in monotheistic religions, but decides that Satan does not exist.
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« Reply #18: August 07, 2010, 07:27:40 am »

(Hah, that might explain it then.  I just remembered seeing the name. Wink )

It's a thing.  I was hanging with my Lady for ten years or so before I got enough of a tip-off to figure out Who She was - a part of a pantheon I would never have looked into without the nudge I got from a different direction.  And it's not like Hetharu is an obscure goddess!  (Perun, who my above post was describing, is comparatively obscure, though - except perhaps to people of Slavic heritage who have looked into their ancestral gods!)

That would be me. To think, I almost suggested who I thought the deity might be! I thought either Perun or the analogous Lithuanian storm deity, Perkunas, who also rides around on a golden or fiery horse. One might say that he's "Earthy". He is after all the stone-smith. I'm pleased to hear him mentioned.

I've heard of people having trouble identifying deities before, and I think a good deal of them are probably on record somewhere. It's just that there are so many mythologies, and only a certain class of them are "famous". Another one that gets people is Finnish deities.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 07:35:49 am by Nomad of Nowhere, Reason: expounding » Logged
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« Reply #19: August 07, 2010, 09:34:23 am »

I believe this too, but that leads me to a a concept that is often found in pagan books that confuses me.  Many say that Satan does not exist, it is solely a construct of the monotheistic religions.  However, if so many millions of people do believe in this being, would that not make it real?  I know that can be countered that it is a person's own point of view that creates the reality, but personally I would not be surprised if there was a creature called Satan running around the astral plane.  I am just confused why people (namely the authors of these books) are so willing to acknowledge the existence of so many other beings, and even every other spirit found in monotheistic religions, but decides that Satan does not exist.

IMO, that comes down to epic chicken-shittedness.

line of logic - People accuse us of worshiping Satan.  D'wanna be accused of that.  Must have excuse.  Don't believe in Satan. ... Satan doesn't exist!  Ha!  Can't worship something that doesn't exist!  Screw you, logic!

Why no, I don't think much of that argument, how could you tell?
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Ellen M.
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« Reply #20: August 07, 2010, 09:53:05 am »

IMO, that comes down to epic chicken-shittedness.

line of logic - People accuse us of worshiping Satan.  D'wanna be accused of that.  Must have excuse.  Don't believe in Satan. ... Satan doesn't exist!  Ha!  Can't worship something that doesn't exist!  Screw you, logic!

Why no, I don't think much of that argument, how could you tell?

I don't believe in 100% good or evil beings (at least not any that give a crap about humanity), so I think if there is a Satan out there, he's so far off from the Christian view of him that you might as well give him another name. Same with the Christian God. To me he might well exist, minus all the omnis and not nearly as benevolent as people think.
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Taliesin
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« Reply #21: August 09, 2010, 04:15:45 am »

I irreverently self-identify as a "Carvel polytheist": semisoft, with a twist (those familiar with the soft-serve ice cream chain will get the reference).

Which means I think there are vast forces flowing in me and through me and around me, forces beyond my comprehension. To try to get a handle on them, I personify them, give them names, and attach stories to them that reveal a bit of what they're about. In other words, I see them as deities, metaphors that give me a glimpse of these forces, however imperfectly. I don't take these metaphors literally, and yet for me, there's deep truth in them. The empirical reality and the spiritual reality coexist.

The "twist" is that, IMHO, our beliefs and thoughts are integral to the shape of reality. So in perceiving these deities, they become real; a part of that vast force differentiates into something resembling what I conceive. (Sort of like how in quantum physics, the act of observation alters the state of matter so that certain undefined characteristics become quantifiable. I'm explaining that badly, but hopefully you get the idea.)

My local deity Verdanus is a good, simplified example. There's a tremedous amount of energy, real (I tend it, it gives me food) and psychological (serenity, joy, connectedness to other living things), flowing between me and my garden. I felt compelled to name that energy, to give it form and substance, and to hang a green man as a representation of it. Is Verdanus literally real? Nope, not in any scientific, quantifiable sense. Is he real to me? Is there a deep truth I can feel every time I step into the garden? Sure.

Since I feel a cultural disconnect to existing pantheons, I never felt comfortable with those embodiments of the vast forces I feel. So, as with Verdanus, I came up with my own, myths and all. So my gods are unique to me.

This is really interesting, and your beliefs, to an extent, correspond with some of my own. Am I right in thinking that you view names and personifications in deity as methods (on our behalf) to understand the forces behind said deity?
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« Reply #22: August 09, 2010, 05:28:56 pm »

Am I right in thinking that you view names and personifications in deity as methods (on our behalf) to understand the forces behind said deity?

The names, the anthropomorphization, the myths...they're all a way for us to get a tiny handle on some huge stuff. IMHO.
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Taliesin
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« Reply #23: August 10, 2010, 01:04:12 pm »

The names, the anthropomorphization, the myths...they're all a way for us to get a tiny handle on some huge stuff. IMHO.

Mhm, I'm starting to feel the same. This is not to say that the Gods aren't real; they are - just so beyond our understanding that what we perceive on our level isn't the end of it. YMMV. Cheesy
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« Reply #24: August 12, 2010, 07:25:52 pm »

The names, the anthropomorphization, the myths...they're all a way for us to get a tiny handle on some huge stuff. IMHO.


A tiny handle... I like the way that was worded, because it shows how true it is. At the end of the day, no one will be any closer to unraveling the mysteries of the universe than they are now. The challenge is to somehow live and be comfortable with this fact, while still being able to sleep at night.
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« Reply #25: October 30, 2010, 10:39:00 am »

Do any of you have relationships with deities or beings otherworldly that are seemingly unique to you? To elaborate, beings that aren't recognised or worshipped by any other people you've encountered. Anyone?

After many shamanic journeys to otherworlds, its quite normal to come in contact with otherworldy beings. On these journeys ive met creatures such as mermaids to centaurs and other mythical creatures, all of them having a great range of personalities. Ive kept in contact with some of these beings, and been able to gain wisedom from them in change of gifts.
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« Reply #26: October 30, 2010, 02:12:02 pm »

Do any of you have relationships with deities or beings otherworldly that are seemingly unique to you? To elaborate, beings that aren't recognised or worshipped by any other people you've encountered. Anyone?

A couple actually. One that has been with me for longer than I know and I just in the last week encountered in a more meaningful and "real" way than I ever thought would happen.
The other - no idea of a name or anything. But its just never seemed important to know that about her.
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