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Author Topic: Earth vs Nature  (Read 24335 times)
RandallS
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« Reply #30: June 06, 2007, 08:29:35 am »

Oh, that is just crap!  I have been doing blood magick for 35 years and most of the time it was LIFE affirming!  ::walks away muttering under breath::

It can't be life affirming because the fluffies don't like it. This type of stuiff reminds me the the reviews Buckland's Big Blue was getting on Amazon a few years ago. Not complaints about bad history or tone but people up in arms over the two or three pages on the Great Rite and sex magick.

Actually, I suspect one of the main reasons blood magic gets this reaction is the main reason I saw giving for the problems with the Great Rite/sex magick info in Big Blue -- such things need to be purged "Wicca/Paganism" because they upset the Fundies and other moral conservatives in the US.
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« Reply #31: June 06, 2007, 10:05:30 am »

Oh, that is just crap!  

Could not have said it better myself! 

Actually, I suspect one of the main reasons blood magic gets this reaction is the main reason I saw giving for the problems with the Great Rite/sex magick info in Big Blue -- such things need to be purged "Wicca/Paganism" because they upset the Fundies and other moral conservatives in the US.

Seriously, some people really need to get lives... and backbones.   Are they really worried about offending this group, the vast majority of which have as their primary religious symbol is an instrument of torture and death (yes, yes, I know most Christians don't view it quite this way!)?  If someone is that worried about upsetting the Fundies, maybe they should join them and not try to dictate to the rest of us how to practice.  Tongue
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« Reply #32: June 06, 2007, 03:26:49 pm »

But why not?  If Brighid can be as...ummmm...*present* in the US as she is in Ireland, who's to say she can't be in Andromeda too?

Granted, the lizard people might have another name for her (something with a lot of "s"s in it?), but that doesn't mean it's not Brighid or that she doesn't have power there.

True. I guess she could be present in a galaxy far, far away. That's sort of getting into the hard vs. soft polytheism question.

Betty  Smiley
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« Reply #33: June 06, 2007, 03:58:45 pm »

Not to mention that cities themselves are home to countless plants and animals ... they're just not usually the cute or majestic types. Pidgeons, rats, foxes, coyotes, raccoons, crows, squirrels, mice, roaches, hornets ... I forget which city it is where peregrine falcons nest on the window ledges, but they're there too. I think the thing that bugs me most about people who talk the "earth-based" line is the implication that human activity is somehow unnatural. I'm always tempted to say something like, "so why are you still wearing clothes?"

Several do, I believe. Winnipeg has about four mating couples in the surrounding area, one of which was in an old (but not vacated) building of the city.

</slightly offtopic>
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« Reply #34: June 06, 2007, 05:51:21 pm »

Are they really worried about offending this group...

Yes, I think they are. From those I've spoken with over the years, they honestly believe that if they get rid of all the "objectionable" parts of Wicca, the fundies will just leave them alone. All I've discussed this with have really been into "go along to get along" type behavior in general.
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« Reply #35: June 06, 2007, 07:44:51 pm »

Actually, I suspect one of the main reasons blood magic gets this reaction is the main reason I saw giving for the problems with the Great Rite/sex magick info in Big Blue -- such things need to be purged "Wicca/Paganism" because they upset the Fundies and other moral conservatives in the US.

I suspect you're right. There is an attitude of *oh lets not give them anything else to get worked up about*. Which while is sort of understandable is misguided. It isn't just ritual sex that's worrying the moral conservatives. It's pretty much everything about Paganism that bothers them. The only way you can explain a pagan path to a Fundie where they'll be okay with it is to water it down to meaninglessness.

I can't speak for all Wiccans or Pagans(and wouldn't even try), but quite a lot I know embrace some kind of cycles of life philosophy- which includes a great many things like sex, sacrifice, birth, death, eating, breathing, etc. Some parts of life are happy like bunnies and rainbows and some parts are painful like heartbreak and poverty. If you want to just embrace the happy things, fine - no skin off my nose. But that's not for me. I have a problem with saying you embrace the cycles of life but only the nice ones. It kind of reminds me of a quote from a movie "A life lived in fear is a life half lived." I kind of wildly apply that to everything.

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« Reply #36: June 06, 2007, 08:30:13 pm »

True. I guess she could be present in a galaxy far, far away. That's sort of getting into the hard vs. soft polytheism question.

I don't think it's really a hard vs. soft polytheism question.  I think an individual god (Brighid, f'ex) could be known by different names in different places, and still be the same individual.  (We were having this conversation in the Polytheism and Similar Deities thread.)  And I think that's still hard polytheism.

Where it becomes soft polytheism, I think, is if we say that the Irish Brighid, the American Brighid, and the Lizard Brighid are three (of many) *aspects* of the One Goddess.

I think...
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« Reply #37: June 06, 2007, 09:05:13 pm »

Not to mention that cities themselves are home to countless plants and animals ... I forget which city it is where peregrine falcons nest on the window ledges, but they're there too.

This is right across the river from where I work, I drive past the building on my way home every day:  http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/falcon/

Momma and Daddy peregrine falcon had five eggs which hatched four babies.  Ha, 'babies'.  Babies are bigger than their parents right now.  Still fluffy with the down, but oh so cute.  Momma and Daddy are always dropping off dead birds for babies to eat.  They should be starting to learn to fly probably as soon as early next week.  The organization that watches over them is going to have shifts of people watching the city streets of Harrisburg starting Monday, for babies that are trying to fly but just dont "get it" right away, so that they dont get run over by a bus or something.

Sorry for interrupting the thread, but these baby falcons are just so darn CUTE!!!  Especially the little runt male, you should have seen that tiny thing fight for scraps.  You just want to snatch him up and snorgle his belly, he's so cute.
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« Reply #38: June 07, 2007, 12:03:44 am »

Sorry for interrupting the thread, but these baby falcons are just so darn CUTE!!!  Especially the little runt male, you should have seen that tiny thing fight for scraps.  You just want to snatch him up and snorgle his belly, he's so cute.

Yeah, they are pretty cute. I saw a hawk flying around the bus stop a few days ago, and this seagull kept going after him. My boyfriend actually has a hawk in their backyard who comes by quite frequently. Maybe its all the rabbits around. I told him that if the hawk ever left any feathers, that I'd want them.

</offtopicness, again>
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« Reply #39: June 07, 2007, 02:16:42 am »

This is right across the river from where I work, I drive past the building on my way home every day

They're everywhere hereabouts.  They're like a plague!!!  Wink

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« Reply #40: June 07, 2007, 03:53:38 am »

Yes, I think they are. From those I've spoken with over the years, they honestly believe that if they get rid of all the "objectionable" parts of Wicca, the fundies will just leave them alone. All I've discussed this with have really been into "go along to get along" type behavior in general.

Well, that is just a load of horsecrap.  I'm not about to strip my spiritualty to suit someone and even less likely to do it just to be 'safe'.  PC or not, it is what it is.

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« Reply #41: June 07, 2007, 04:11:40 am »

I have a problem with saying you embrace the cycles of life but only the nice ones. 

I have the exact same feeling about it, and coined the term Paia Pagans to describe people who do that (lived in Maui for 8 years, and Paia town had very much that feel of "let's embrace life but only if it's not yucky").

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It kind of reminds me of a quote from a movie "A life lived in fear is a life half lived." I kind of wildly apply that to everything.

That quote is awesome. Do you remember what movie it's from?
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« Reply #42: June 07, 2007, 01:21:37 pm »

Yes, I think they are. From those I've spoken with over the years, they honestly believe that if they get rid of all the "objectionable" parts of Wicca, the fundies will just leave them alone. All I've discussed this with have really been into "go along to get along" type behavior in general.

True Fundies and Wiccans (insert name of any Pagan group here) will never get along, IMHO. It's not just the blood thing. Christianity is full of blood-the blood of Christ, the blood of Christians, the blood of the Pagans and others that Christians killed. The real reason why Pagans and Fundies will never get along is the dichotomy of polytheism vs monotheism. Fundies of any religion are not averse to shedding blood when it suits them to...

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« Reply #43: June 07, 2007, 02:32:02 pm »


That quote is awesome. Do you remember what movie it's from?

Yeah, it's from Strictly Ballroom directed by Baz Luhrmann.

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« Reply #44: June 07, 2007, 07:17:04 pm »

Yeah, it's from Strictly Ballroom directed by Baz Luhrmann.

I can't believe I didn't remember that, as The Red Curtain Trilogy is one of my faves. Thanks. I'll have to watch SB again.
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