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Author Topic: Possessions, Parents, and Getting Kids to Clean Up  (Read 9736 times)
Mandi
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« Reply #30: September 03, 2010, 11:59:07 am »

There are a lot of reasons for wanting privacy, and it isn't generally all about the person on the other side of the door.  The person on the other side of the door is actually irrelevant most of the time, and it is all about the person inside the room.  It seems a little paranoid to be so unsettled by a space that doesn't want you in it.

I think in the context of my boys, we're just so ridiculously on top of each other 98% of the time, then when you hear silence you know for certain nothing good is coming of it.  If I thought they were reading, knitting, minding their business, writing a letter - actually I'd probably be relieved.  Because I know they're not, and if it gets too quiet something terrible is soon to follow.

I am paranoid of what they are preparing to launch on me.  The more I think about this, the more I perhaps realize, I am coping the best I can with having a kid who is emotionally inconsiderate.  I exist as a human wall for him to bounce himself off of.  I am the fourth wall to his proscenium and human bungee cord. 

As things currently stand, he lacks the maturity to be weaned off into greater self reliance.  We've structured our family to deal with that. 

Quote
My family has always lived piled on top of each other. 

And yet, a simple statement of needing some private time will produce total isolation in the midst of all the chaos.  It doesn't matter what the time is for, and nobody would dream of asking why you wanted it.  Our bubbles are inviolate until and unless we invite the world back in.

Neither of my boys have ever been private people.  When I have reached the end of my tolerance I have hit the OMG OUT OUT OUT point, but I end up feeling guilty and do my best to bounce back quickly because they shouldn't have their needs back burnered because I have a meltdown moment.  I used to be very 'in my space' but I have four people who see my space and their space as synonymous.  I've worked to up my tolerance, get over the times that I want to freak out or run and hold on for five minutes more when I think I can't take another second.

Quote
We were not forced to 'fess up' to angers that would dissipate with a little thought and distance, and we learned the difference between transitory emotional reactions and ones that really would benefit from discussion.

Nobody needs to be on display to foster trust and family feeling.  Secrets and private amusements are healthy and do not interfere with bonding with one's family unit.  Demands for constant attention by parents or siblings are unreasonable, and privacy is about oneself, not about the person who can't stand not knowing what you're thinking at any given time.

Most of that falls under the stfu and get over it category.

We have worked very hard to get appropriate emotional response out of my oldest, to the degree of having to number the cause, 1-10 how extreme is this emotion and creating appropriate reactions based upon number.  There is so much mediating between the boys as well because they still lack the diplomacy to work things out between themselves without escalating.  We're still building their conflict resolution skills and it takes staying on top of because they're only going to get bigger.  Once they're 15 and 16 and testosterone kicks in, the little wrestling matches are going to be a lot harder to mediate.

This means that transitory emotions escalate and sometimes out of thin air and we're creating the system by which they'll work this out down the road now. 

I really don't care about the thousand ideas for how you can make a movie about airsoft guns, but should you come home cop attitude, refuse to communicate and storm off to your room to isolate or yell at your brother to get out of your room, then you have created a situation that requires resolution and 'privacy' isn't going to be a shield in this case. 

Quote
(I've always hated the psychobabble about 'sharing'.  I'm selfish enough to only share me when I feel like it, not necessarily when somebody else has some driving need to know.  I'm about me, they can do what they want.)

Absent

My sister is like that.   

I think overall, I'm dealing with the needs of my kids as best I can, and the long and short of it is there are a bunch of them and two of them are close enough in age and of an age that they are either fighting or plotting.  For a change in a few variables I might have to torque my methods a bit.  I don't anticipate parenting Kenna the same way I do the boys.  In a situation where you're dealing with teenage girls who don't want to set things on fire then you create your game plan differently.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir

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erinnightwalker
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« Reply #31: September 03, 2010, 07:31:19 pm »


My mom never made me clean up a lot as a child, mostly because she would have been a hypocrite (i.e., I moved rooms when my sister moved out because mom told me flat out that she was taking over the unused bedroom). However, due to the floorplan of my parents' house, I had to always make sure that my sister had a walkway to her room. Eventually, one day I just decided to clean it up, and did so. Mom's rules were about different things. No food in the bedroom (my sister left out a jawbreaker one time and it was covered in ants >.> ), be in bed with no lights on by 8 (when I was older it was moved to 9, but it wasn't until I was 18 that she finally loosened up), and nothing too loud. About the time I started craving privacy, my sister moved out so though my door didn't lock, it still shut, and stayed shut. In return, I stayed out of my parents' room, to the point that during hide and seek it was out of bounds. I'm still iffy about going in there, actually.

Oh, and even when the door was wide open? I still did stuff that was on the no-no list. It was never stuff that would hurt me (no drugs, no alcohol, even though the wine bottles pile up every christmas and we never use it), but it was stuff I know that if I got caught doing I'd be justly punished. I still did it, but I know I had boundaries, and I knew which ones I could cross. Metal music? Didn't care as long as she didn't have to listen to it. Violent games? Didn't care as long as I knew that what is on the screen stays there. She did have a shelf of books I wasn't supposed to read, mostly because they weren't PG, but by the fifth grade I was reading about homosexual lovers (Heralds of Valdemar FTW). Mostly, I was smart enough to see the rules, understand which ones were meant to protect me, and apply the knowledge to daily life. I never had a brother so boys may be different, but I was never a *girly* female. I played with barbies, yeah, but I was the one who made a useable harness, found a sledge, and sent them across the desert on a trek to a new land. I played hide and seek in my dad's shop (which had off-limits areas, but I was told why they were off limits) and absolutely loved climbing on the hay bales. I have had some rather nasty cuts, burns, and bruises, but no broken bones because I knew why I wasn't supposed to do the harmful stuff.
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« Reply #32: September 07, 2010, 11:16:44 pm »

In a situation where you're dealing with teenage girls who don't want to set things on fire then you create your game plan differently.

I'm sorry, have you met  my oldest.... the FIRE STARTER... SHE is  almost 17!!! Sorry I had to  jump in  here,  girls  can be and ARE  just as  bad as  boys if not worse sometimes. As a mother of  4 I  see no reason to  disallow privacy for  any  child when they  need it. My  oldest  will close  her door and  push  a  bookshelf  against the  door  if need  be to get  her  privacy, and YES she has  come home after a bad day at school  stormed up to her room  kicked her sister out  of  the room and  slammed the door and  shut  out the family. I see no reason  to go up there and  bother  her  at  all, but then again  I trust  her  completely and  I  trust that when she has had time to cool  off she will come and talk to  me when SHE is ready to. When she  emerges from the room she  is in a  better  mood  and  she can  actively  participate  in  anything the  family is doing at the time. My  13 year  old ( AD/HD,ODD,OCD..)  daughter is a piece of work I  have to  FORCE that  child to go up to her room and watch a movie  or a t.v. show  in order for her to settle in for the night, she  is  constantly  following me around and  constantly right  behind me. My  11 year  old son took to some pretty  destructive  behavior a couple  years back he is now on  medications to  control the  chemical  imbalance in his  brain and  let  me tell you  he is 100% a different  child, he  is calm and  less destructive when he takes his  meds. I might add at this point  that I DO  believe  that  children can and do  suffer  from  many  mental  issues and I have  absolutely  NO  qualms with  medicating  these  issues  IF  the  medication actually HELPS the  child to  become a  productive member  of society.    Now  on to  my  8 year  old step son, who does  live with us  full time, he  needs  his  privacy PERIOD.... end of story. This poor  child  has  been to hell and back in  his short life and when  he  retreats to his room to lay on his  bed and watch  t.v. we  leave him be, we respect  his right to  privacy. Since  I have been living  here  this  child has come  a long, long  way  BECAUSE  he is  respected and  he KNOWS  that  if he  needs  his personal  space  then he's going to get it.

I do  go and  check in  with all the kids  when they  retreat to their  rooms to make sure they are  ok and they  know when they  feel up to it they  can come and talk to us at anytime and we WILL listen to hem and try to help them to  the best  of our abilities. My  children are  very  capable  of  making  most  decisions on  their  own with the exception of my 13 year  old who has  more mental issues than a  flipping  news stand, but that's a whole other story in a  whole  other thread.

My  oldest  being almost  17  is allowed alot  of freedom to  go where she wants, when she wants...she has broken  her  curfew  2 times  and  jumped out her  bedroom  window  once, and she came  home  on her  own  about  3 hours later  because she  didn't have any  shoes  on , it  was October and  her  feet were  cold. I  allow  her this  freedom  because  I am confidant  in my  parenting to know I raised a kid I can  trust, I am not  naive I know what I did when I was a teenager and I  know pretty  much what she is doing  every minute  she is outside of this  house. She is an avid  texter, this  child will text me from the  beach or the mall or where ever she is  to tell me  what  funny thing  her  friend  just  did, or to tell me  the  not so clean  joke  her friends  just told  her, or to let me know that  hey I was at the mall where I  said  but we decided to  go  hang out at so and so's  house i"ll be  home  on the  8:35 bus.... she will text me  if she misses said  bus. She is never out  past  9 p.m. of her own choice unless  she is going to a late movie with her friends and has arranged a ride  home and then she will text me  when the movie  is  out, when they are getting in the car,  what  corner they are at, who they are dropping off  first....She tells me thing s that most   teenagers would NOT  even consider  telling their parents. WHY?  Because  I  have  always respected  her right to  privacy, her right to her  own privacy and  her right to be  heard.

As for  the  cleaning  around the house well  we are  lax on that around here, I  do  most  of the cleaning, mostly  when I feel like it and   they  help sometimes, when they  feel like it. Their rooms  well once a week  I tell them to  go  clean their rooms  usually  on the  day I can not  get in the  door and  I am  happy  if they  clear me a path to the beds. I gave up on  the  whole  screaming an yelling and threatening to throw  things out  if  they  didn't clean up because it was  getting me  know where with them. I  have noticed  lately  the  girls ( who are the  2  oldest in the family)  are getting better at  cleaning up their room without being asked to... but alas  there is still a huge  pile  of dirty  clothes in the upstairs  hallway tonight, *shrugs* I'll just have to  kick them all to the  laundry room in the morning once everyone is gone to school, no big deal. This is  what I like to call the we  live  by the  " no use crying over spilled  milk "  theory  here.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 08:08:34 am by RandallS, Reason: blank lines added between paragraphs -- RSS » Logged

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Mandi
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« Reply #33: September 08, 2010, 08:15:58 pm »

I'm sorry, have you met  my oldest.... the FIRE STARTER... SHE is  almost 17!!! Sorry I had to  jump in  here,  girls  can be and ARE  just as  bad as  boys if not worse sometimes. As a mother of  4 I  see no reason to  disallow privacy for  any  child when they  need it.

We parent very differently. 

Mistreating others in the name of driving them out of a space you want to claim does not deserve to be respected. 

We have a household in which consequences are consistent.  Regardless of your reason you will treat others with courtesy and respect should you choose not to, you will be held accountable.  If you cannot address others in civil tones, your statements will be completely disregarded.  An effective tool is an effective tool and eventually it will be tried against larger tasks.

If it's never effective, you move on and find better ways to communicate and you learn to control yourself while seeking other options.

It may not leave everyone feeling like they are the king or queen of sheba, but it's not designed to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.  It's designed to keep order and teach a standard of conduct that will be useful in most situations and build the self control to live by that standard even when others don't.  The systems of order and behavior are coping strategies to hold onto when the rest of the world is in flux and isn't going to give you 45 minutes to go cry about it and you don't get to tell your boss you think they're a mean SOB and sneak out for a coffee.   


It sounds like you all have quite a few different things going on.  I'm pretty familiar with ADD/HD, OCD and ODD.  Are your kids diagnosed through a psychologist/ psychiatrist, or the school system/ MD?  If you're dealing with the spectrum of issues and disorders you've got going on in your household, talk therapy and behavioral therapy would be something I would include in the mix as well as medication.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
Jubes
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« Reply #34: September 08, 2010, 08:23:41 pm »

It sounds like you all have quite a few different things going on.  I'm pretty familiar with ADD/HD, OCD and ODD.  Are your kids diagnosed through a psychologist/ psychiatrist, or the school system/ MD?  If you're dealing with the spectrum of issues and disorders you've got going on in your household, talk therapy and behavioral therapy would be something I would include in the mix as well as medication.


Psychologist diagnosed and  maintained, our  schools  do not  diagnose  kids with  mental  disorders, if they  did  every  kid in  school would be on medication! It took me forever to  get  them  diagnosed properly and  on to  medication that works for them and does not  make them in to  zombies.
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