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Author Topic: To be Wiccan  (Read 22997 times)
Elspeth Sapphire
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« Reply #60: June 12, 2007, 07:13:42 am »

For me, the matter of "who's powering this magic, anyway?" is very much part of the Eclectic/Neo distinction.  I have the same problem (only more so) with spells that end with "So mote it be!... if it be for the good of all, and the harm of none, and if the Goddess wills it."  I do not believe this will cover the spellcaster's ass if it's a poorly-considered act of magic; consequence is consequence, whatever pious caveats one has mouthed. 

In my group, we taught "do as you will, but keep in mind our actions come with prices and be sure you are willing to pay that price".  We stressed standing up and taking responsibility for all actions.  Hard to sometimes, but necessary for growth.

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« Reply #61: June 12, 2007, 12:59:20 pm »


For me, the matter of "who's powering this magic, anyway?" is very much part of the Eclectic/Neo distinction.  I have the same problem (only more so) with spells that end with "So mote it be!... if it be for the good of all, and the harm of none, and if the Goddess wills it."  I do not believe this will cover the spellcaster's ass if it's a poorly-considered act of magic; consequence is consequence, whatever pious caveats one has mouthed.  There is no substitute for full and proper consideration of results, and acceptance of whatever consequences - intended and unintended, foreseen or unforeseen - may occur.  One cannot evade responsibility merely by saying, "I'm irresponsible".

The other, more NeoWiccan, side of the coin postulates that spells are powered by deity; the Goddess (in my experience, the most common conception of deity in this context), like a moderator on an e-list, approves, or doesn't, any and all spells.  To an Eclectic, especially an Eclectic of the old school, this looks maddeningly fluffy - and so it is, in context of our theology/magical theory - but it's simply a different theology/school of magical theory, which is why I maintain that NeoWicca is a different, though related, branch of the Wiccan family of religions.  (I have got to get back to working on that Eclectic/Neo essay I keep nattering about!)

Well said! I tried to shorten your quote but I agree with all that you so eloquently stated so strongly I found I could not. I come from a generally scientific angle of what powers spells, believing that it is the way the universe works and is as natural as breathing, not governed over by a human like deity. And is just as impersonal, actions create re-actions and acceptance and responsibility are an integral part of consciously using magic.

This is also why I generally call my eclectic witchcraft a life philosophy more than a religion. It's  the way I, personally, need to think of it so I can deeply believe and trust in the theory I have developed in my studies and practice.
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« Reply #62: June 12, 2007, 01:53:54 pm »

For me, the matter of "who's powering this magic, anyway?" is very much part of the Eclectic/Neo distinction.  I have the same problem (only more so) with spells that end with "So mote it be!... if it be for the good of all, and the harm of none, and if the Goddess wills it."  I do not believe this will cover the spellcaster's ass if it's a poorly-considered act of magic; consequence is consequence, whatever pious caveats one has mouthed.  There is no substitute for full and proper consideration of results, and acceptance of whatever consequences - intended and unintended, foreseen or unforeseen - may occur.  One cannot evade responsibility merely by saying, "I'm irresponsible".

What she said.
Hence recent conversation about asking Her to add to something I was doing, if She were so inclined, but the meat of it was happening whether She did or not. Does that make sense??

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RandallS
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« Reply #63: June 12, 2007, 05:46:52 pm »

...which is why I maintain that NeoWicca is a different, though related, branch of the Wiccan family of religions.  (I have got to get back to working on that Eclectic/Neo essay I keep nattering about!)

When I started using the term "Neo-Wicca" that is exactly how I was using it -- to distinguish a clearly separate "modern" branch Wicca. It wasn't intended as as the insult some have turned it into. In fact, I think I got the idea from the "New Generation Wicca" bit which was far too long to type all the time.
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« Reply #64: June 14, 2007, 05:29:26 pm »

Oh, I hope that works out!

For me, the matter of "who's powering this magic, anyway?" is very much part of the Eclectic/Neo distinction.  I have the same problem (only more so) with spells that end with "So mote it be!... if it be for the good of all, and the harm of none, and if the Goddess wills it."  I do not believe this will cover the spellcaster's ass if it's a poorly-considered act of magic; consequence is consequence, whatever pious caveats one has mouthed.  There is no substitute for full and proper consideration of results, and acceptance of whatever consequences - intended and unintended, foreseen or unforeseen - may occur.  One cannot evade responsibility merely by saying, "I'm irresponsible".

The other, more NeoWiccan, side of the coin postulates that spells are powered by deity; the Goddess (in my experience, the most common conception of deity in this context), like a moderator on an e-list, approves, or doesn't, any and all spells.  To an Eclectic, especially an Eclectic of the old school, this looks maddeningly fluffy - and so it is, in context of our theology/magical theory - but it's simply a different theology/school of magical theory, which is why I maintain that NeoWicca is a different, though related, branch of the Wiccan family of religions.  (I have got to get back to working on that Eclectic/Neo essay I keep nattering about!)

A bit of a ramble, but relevant enough, I think, to what Mithril is working on figuring out.

Sunflower

Very relevant, thanks. I think I'm definately in the Eclectic Wiccan side of it.
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« Reply #65: June 15, 2007, 12:28:06 am »

Very relevant, thanks. I think I'm definately in the Eclectic Wiccan side of it.
I'm not surprised.  Mind you, I wouldn't have been particularly surprised if it had gone the other way, either; it's a very fine line.  Or, more accurately, it's not a line at all, but a gradiation, with no place one can point to and say, "This side Eclectic, that side Neo."  Instead, there are a number of qualities/approaches/features, where one can say, "X is a more Eclectic approach," or, "Y is a more Neo POV".

I'm very glad that was helpful for you, Mithril.  It gives me incentive to get that essay done - I have a clear and present demonstration that me addressing the subject is useful to someone.  The things that have already been mentioned in this thread aren't the only descriptive points, so it's possible that, once the essay is done and available, you could still find that you fit more closely with Neo - but the ones mentioned are, to my mind anyway, the most central ones, so I don't think it's all that likely.  (What I expect to do is, once I have a "beta version", post it in its own thread, where Cauldronites can chew on it and tell me where they think I'm full of poppycock - so the eventual final version won't just be "to my mind" but with the input of the egregore that coined the term "NeoWicca".)

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« Reply #66: June 15, 2007, 12:13:10 pm »


I'm very glad that was helpful for you, Mithril.  It gives me incentive to get that essay done - I have a clear and present demonstration that me addressing the subject is useful to someone. 
Sunflower

Well you know you're useful to me many times Smiley
That probably sounds so bad... lol

I think that puts me on the eclectic side, if I'm on any side at all.
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« Reply #67: June 16, 2007, 06:55:18 am »

I think that puts me on the eclectic side, if I'm on any side at all.
That sounds just about right, given that you don't, and as far as I know never have, identify as Wiccan - you can say it's not your bunfight, or note that you're Wiccish enough that it's possible to place you on this spectrum, at your own preference.

And, saying I'm useful doesn't sound bad to me - I'd rather be useful than useless, and anyway I know what you mean by it.

Sunflower
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« Reply #68: June 16, 2007, 10:49:20 am »

That sounds just about right, given that you don't, and as far as I know never have, identify as Wiccan - you can say it's not your bunfight, or note that you're Wiccish enough that it's possible to place you on this spectrum, at your own preference.

Guess I have to admit that there are enough similarities that wiccish isn't totally out of the ball park in the same way it would be if someone was calling a kemetic recon (f'ex) wiccan. And in the general world it doesn't bother me even though you're right, *I* wouldn't call myself Wiccan.

Quote
And, saying I'm useful doesn't sound bad to me - I'd rather be useful than useless, and anyway I know what you mean by it.

Sunflower

Although it's straying from the topic somewhat, that recent suggestion of yours elsewhere did help a lot - not in it's original form, but... yeah.. so thank you. It's not perfect yet but things are improving slowly - and I (we) ask no more than that Smiley
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« Reply #69: June 16, 2007, 12:59:39 pm »

*I* wouldn't call myself Wiccan.
(Yes I know I'm replying to myself.... and probably making it muddier Embarrassed )

But, to clarify, one of the main reasons I wouldn't do so is because from MY perspective I differ on (generally considered) core points from wicca.
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« Reply #70: June 16, 2007, 03:18:09 pm »

Although it's straying from the topic somewhat, that recent suggestion of yours elsewhere did help a lot - not in it's original form, but... yeah.. so thank you. It's not perfect yet but things are improving slowly - and I (we) ask no more than that Smiley
Very glad to hear it!

Sunflower
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« Reply #71: June 16, 2007, 03:34:17 pm »

Very glad to hear it!

Sunflower

You and me both Smiley
One step at a time...
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« Reply #72: June 21, 2007, 05:14:43 pm »

This has been bothering me for a bit.

I call myself Wiccan, because I believe Wiccan things. However, I am an incredibly busy person (figure skating two times a week, yoga, violin, summer school for fun, part time work, and soon to start voice again). I just can't get the energy to actually practice. I'm on my own and in the broom closet, so I'm not initiated.


Wicca is something that must be practiced and applied to your life. Wicca very much involves energy work and a certain amount of self-enlightenment to progress. If your not willing to make the time to do either why bother? I believe in many aspects of Buddhism but that doesn't make me a Buddhist, because I don't actually practice the religion. You can easily have wiccan ideals but if you don't commune with the divine, practice any form of energy work I would be hard pressed to call you wiccan.

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« Reply #73: June 23, 2007, 12:17:09 pm »

Wicca is something that must be practiced and applied to your life. Wicca very much involves energy work and a certain amount of self-enlightenment to progress. If your not willing to make the time to do either why bother? I believe in many aspects of Buddhism but that doesn't make me a Buddhist, because I don't actually practice the religion. You can easily have wiccan ideals but if you don't commune with the divine, practice any form of energy work I would be hard pressed to call you wiccan.



But I *do* practice energy work, just not formally.
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« Reply #74: June 23, 2007, 11:56:21 pm »

But I *do* practice energy work, just not formally.

But as has been said above, Wicca is a religion, which isn't about energy work, but about worship.  Do you do that?  If not, perhaps you're a witch, or a magician.

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