The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
November 29, 2020, 11:52:20 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 29, 2020, 11:52:20 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Quaran Burning on 9/11  (Read 28079 times)
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #105: September 15, 2010, 10:53:39 pm »

Two links.
Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/14/2010-09-14_koran_burner_derek_fenton_fired_from_his_job_at_nj_transit.html


Volokh Conspiracy blog post about it. http://volokh.com/2010/09/15/new-jersey-public-transit-employee-fired-for-blasphemy/

So, freedom of speech would no longer apply if it insults Muslims since they might attack the company you work used to work for.

IS there a union?  Much as I hate to have him booted for this, if there's no union, he can be booted for anything other than a protected class, including the color of his eyes.  One has to think about these things before one opens their mouth.
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #106: September 15, 2010, 11:52:46 pm »

IS there a union?  Much as I hate to have him booted for this, if there's no union, he can be booted for anything other than a protected class, including the color of his eyes.  One has to think about these things before one opens their mouth.

He was specifically fired for burning the Quaran. That makes it a protected activity unless there is an over riding concern. No need for a union when the firing is in retaliation for excercising one's rights. That would be like firing every employee who's car has an Obama bumper sticker if the boss doesn't like Obama.

Since it is NJ, and it's a state enterprise, there is almost assuredly a union.
Logged
skyth
Journeyman
***
Last Login:February 25, 2014, 07:45:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Posts: 175

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #107: September 16, 2010, 08:04:32 am »

That would be like firing every employee who's car has an Obama bumper sticker if the boss doesn't like Obama.

In an at-will employment state, such firing is permissable.  Not very ethical, but it is legal.

As for the Koran burner...If he was in a Customer Service position or a supervisory position, I can see the firings as being justifiable.  The protest, especially when you have the book burning, was a form of intimidation towards a protected class (Religion).  If he were in one of those two types of positions, Muslims (or people who appeared to be Muslim) would 'know' that we will want to harm them in some form.  The 'know' is in quotation marks because, while he may not actually try, his actions make it appear as if he might. 

Now, I don't believe that he is actually in a Customer Service role, but he might be in a supervisory position from the description of his job from the article.
Logged
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #108: September 16, 2010, 08:22:35 am »

In an at-will employment state, such firing is permissable.  Not very ethical, but it is legal.


Which state is he in, is then very important.  And yes, it has already been proven that one can be fired for having an OBama sticker on your car.  One can pretty much, if there is no union, be fired for no reason at all.  And IIRC, exercising your free political speech, unless it is within the unionizing business, can do cost you your job, and the unionizing probably will too.
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi
Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #109: September 16, 2010, 11:42:25 am »

IS there a union?  Much as I hate to have him booted for this, if there's no union, he can be booted for anything other than a protected class, including the color of his eyes.  One has to think about these things before one opens their mouth.

I work as an accountant - not for a CPA firm but for a company doing all their accounting work.  Have done this for other companies.  And I have found that I need to be careful about voicing political beliefs and spiritual beliefs and even what I like to do in my off time (I had an employer who had issues with me going to a renaissance faire - she kept coming back to it at random times for years and didn't know I was going every year).  And yes, I live in an 'at will' state.  Would I be fired if the boss didn't like my politics or religion?  Yes, because they have a very specific view of who should be counting their money.  Would they say it was for that?  No.  But the ending would be the same.

As long as an employer can justify the firing - and in some cases they cover their ass by allowing the person to go on unemployment - then the employee is stuck.  Even if the cause is a lie but you can't really prove that.  My question would be, in this case, did they say WHY he was fired (and I don't mean what the media said).  Because they may have had enough cause and this was just icing on the cake. 
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #110: September 16, 2010, 11:49:56 am »

I work as an accountant - not for a CPA firm but for a company doing all their accounting work.  Have done this for other companies.  And I have found that I need to be careful about voicing political beliefs and spiritual beliefs and even what I like to do in my off time (I had an employer who had issues with me going to a renaissance faire - she kept coming back to it at random times for years and didn't know I was going every year).  And yes, I live in an 'at will' state.  Would I be fired if the boss didn't like my politics or religion?  Yes, because they have a very specific view of who should be counting their money.  Would they say it was for that?  No.  But the ending would be the same.

As long as an employer can justify the firing - and in some cases they cover their ass by allowing the person to go on unemployment - then the employee is stuck.  Even if the cause is a lie but you can't really prove that.  My question would be, in this case, did they say WHY he was fired (and I don't mean what the media said).  Because they may have had enough cause and this was just icing on the cake. 

my employer has enough writeups on everyone that they can justify firing anyone at any time.  Which is why the two union activists lasted exactly one week after the union pulled out.
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi
Sperran
Reserve Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:October 18, 2014, 02:07:12 am
United States United States

Religion: Judaism
Posts: 2945


Adonai Echad

Blog entries (8)


« Reply #111: September 16, 2010, 12:01:04 pm »

my employer has enough writeups on everyone that they can justify firing anyone at any time.  Which is why the two union activists lasted exactly one week after the union pulled out.

And this, my friends, is why we better pray that Tea Party Republicans don't get hold of our government because this sort of thing will only continue to get worse.

Sperran
Logged
Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #112: September 16, 2010, 02:49:28 pm »

my employer has enough writeups on everyone that they can justify firing anyone at any time.  Which is why the two union activists lasted exactly one week after the union pulled out.

Bingo
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #113: September 16, 2010, 05:31:33 pm »

And this, my friends, is why we better pray that Tea Party Republicans don't get hold of our government because this sort of thing will only continue to get worse.

Exactly. The "tea Party Republican" business ideal seems to be workers as serfs to the rich owners.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
skyth
Journeyman
***
Last Login:February 25, 2014, 07:45:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Posts: 175

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #114: September 16, 2010, 09:24:42 pm »

Exactly. The "tea Party Republican" business ideal seems to be workers as serfs to the rich owners.

Fortunately, the Tea Party honestly seems to be mostly composed of obvious ideological extremeists of the type that tend to really drive away centrists.  I don't believe that they'll get traction except in places where the voting population is mostly composed of extremists.
Logged
Pyperlie
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:July 04, 2011, 09:45:31 pm
United States United States

Religion: Agnostic
Posts: 1802

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #115: September 17, 2010, 01:06:30 pm »

<snip links>

So, freedom of speech would no longer apply if it insults Muslims since they might attack the company you work used to work for.

Exactly my point.  It may start with them, but it sure won't end there.
Logged

~~~Pyperlie<^>

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
               ----Sarah Williams
Sekhmet's Servant
Journeyman
***
Last Login:February 20, 2011, 01:00:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Celtic Reconstructionist/Hard Polytheist
Posts: 213


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #116: October 06, 2010, 06:17:57 am »

And this, my friends, is why we better pray that Tea Party Republicans don't get hold of our government because this sort of thing will only continue to get worse.

Sperran

Yeah and O'Donnell will be in the lead. Did you see her stupid commercial. "I'm not a witch, I'm you." Give me a break! Nothing that the Tea Party says I'm interested in. I"m voting Democrat, at least they didn't take my health away. Also when it's time to re-elect or elect a new President if I don't like the other morons I'm re-voting for Obama. Sorry, but the pool of candidates is getting worse, not better.
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Uses of incense burning in different traditions
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
Waldfrau 6 5688 Last post March 16, 2008, 04:16:42 pm
by Cosima
Wood Carving/Burning Tools
Crafts and Hobbies
Neriandal Freit 3 3426 Last post April 22, 2011, 12:30:30 pm
by NatureMade
Weird Candle Burning Problems?
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
rudedog 8 9064 Last post April 21, 2008, 11:53:29 am
by Mannun
Tarot and burning hands
Divination SIG
becomingshaman 5 7097 Last post November 18, 2010, 05:09:10 pm
by Zoe Moonchild
Cleansing Rituals Without Burning?Is It Possible? « 1 2 »
Paganism For Beginners
cottoncandyhorror 16 20160 Last post June 17, 2011, 11:56:59 am
by cottoncandyhorror
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 49 queries.