The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
September 22, 2019, 04:47:43 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 22, 2019, 04:47:43 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Land Spirits/the Fair Folk questions  (Read 9173 times)
Vella Malachite
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 31, 2011, 03:27:04 am
Australia Australia

Religion: Irish Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 368


Never underestimate carefully worded nonsense.

Blog entries (3)



Ignore
« Topic Start: September 29, 2010, 01:41:02 am »

Hey.  It's the clueless one again... Tongue

So I was thinking about this recently - I've been trying to concentrate on Land, Sea and Sky a bit more in the past few weeks, and I've read some stuff that mentions, in passing, the celts worshipping spirits of places, or at least respecting them.  There are many gods and goddesses based on rivers, I know that much.

And I was wondering about connections between them at the Fair Folk.  Are they of the same genus, if not the same species?  Are they similar?  Or are they completely different creatures - the Fair Folk being strictly otherworldly folk and spirits of the land being closer to deities?

And finally, how does one incorporate either of them into one's worship?  Are there any special ways to address the spirits of the land, as opposed to, say, deities?  And is the traditional 'leave-milk-out-for-the-Fair-Folk' going to get me too much attention from beings whose attention I would prefer not to have?
Logged

Minds are like parachutes: Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he is a man, but when he is a spinning ball of ammonia and methane must be silent?

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Nimue
Master Member
****
Last Login:May 09, 2011, 10:31:43 pm
United States United States

Religion: Pagan
Posts: 545


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #1: September 29, 2010, 02:55:25 am »

And finally, how does one incorporate either of them into one's worship?  Are there any special ways to address the spirits of the land, as opposed to, say, deities?  And is the traditional 'leave-milk-out-for-the-Fair-Folk' going to get me too much attention from beings whose attention I would prefer not to have?

I do not know much about Celtic magic or traditions, but I have worked a fair amount with the Fair Folk (my knowledge of them comes from personal experience, I just read my first book on them this year, and found it not very helpful).  I have successfully incorporated them into spells and rituals, mainly by inviting them to join and asking for their help (and leaving a nice present, of course).  I really don't suggest doing this until you have a pretty decent relationship with them. 

 My relationship started rather by accident, I was just beginning to learn about magic and they sort-of just invited themselves into my life.  They are, as you may know, much easier to invite in than to get rid of.  Thanks to their relationship with me, they have followed me to each place I have moved, leading my roommates to think that they apartment/house is haunted.  I leave them presents when able, and they really seem to like candy.  If I forget to give them a gift (or they are just in a playful mood), it is not uncommon for me to lose a ring, or stone, or even a book and have it reappear a few weeks later on my pillow, or wake up with it on the foot of the bed.  I don't think that leaving milk outside will cause any problems for you as long as you are respectful.  If something contacts you that you are not comfortable working with, there is always the option of respectfully declining (I suggest leaving a nice present too).

Even though they can be tricky, I think that the Fair Folk are great to work with.  They are very protective and will assist with magic, and I really do enjoy having them around, even if they cause random things to happen that scare my roommates.

I hope this helps you out somewhat.
Logged
Tana
Staff
High Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:July 26, 2013, 08:37:48 am
Germany Germany

Religion: I'm my Lady's own
Posts: 3407


fence-riding, free-flowing, shamagic = crazy

Blog entries (4)

WWW
« Reply #2: September 29, 2010, 05:30:36 am »

I leave them presents when able, and they really seem to like candy.

I second the candy part.
Last summer we bbq-ed some marshmellows and I literally felt them peaking over my shoulder and felt their interest in having one of those. Of course the got one. Wink


I do not know if this can work or will work for other folks, but the faeries entered into my life through this:
http://www.worldoffroud.com/www/online/oracle/
I saw those cards online and I knew I needed to get them.

Never before I had an oracle set, that was that alive.
(Like I almost never come to drawing a card, they usually jump out while I shuffle and I am not that clumsy with other cards.)

It might be worth a shot.
Logged

'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation. That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance. You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long. All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.' Terry Pratchett 'Lords and Ladies'

(The FB button in my profile does not work, if you like go and add me: Tana Adaneth, the one with the Doom Kitty avatar Wink)

Only shallow people know themselves. (Oscar Wilde)
Malkin
Journeyman
***
Last Login:July 04, 2011, 07:53:38 pm
United States United States

Religion: BTW
Posts: 239


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: September 29, 2010, 07:04:45 am »

And I was wondering about connections between them at the Fair Folk.  Are they of the same genus, if not the same species?  Are they similar?  Or are they completely different creatures - the Fair Folk being strictly otherworldly folk and spirits of the land being closer to deities?

This is good thread to help you consider some of these questions: http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=11621.0

...Personally, I don't know why you would draw any distinction between the sidhe in general and a specific "spirit of place" in a Celtic context. Pretty much every fairy that can be named in the lore is associated with a particular locale. So, if there's any difference, I'm not seeing it.
Logged

Thessaly: It's time to draw down the moon.
Foxglove: We did this. Or something like this. We had water and salt, not blood. We invoked the goddess in her aspect as the moon. We called down her power...
Thessaly: Did she answer you?
Foxglove: Well, it felt good at the time. Empowering.
Thessaly: Hmph.
gorm_sionnach
Journeyman
***
Last Login:January 14, 2011, 11:19:41 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Fálachus, Gaelic Reconstructionist Polytheist
Posts: 222

Gravatar

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4: September 30, 2010, 12:50:20 pm »

Hey.  It's the clueless one again... Tongue

So I was thinking about this recently - I've been trying to concentrate on Land, Sea and Sky a bit more in the past few weeks, and I've read some stuff that mentions, in passing, the celts worshipping spirits of places, or at least respecting them.  There are many gods and goddesses based on rivers, I know that much.

And I was wondering about connections between them at the Fair Folk.  Are they of the same genus, if not the same species?  Are they similar?  Or are they completely different creatures - the Fair Folk being strictly otherworldly folk and spirits of the land being closer to deities?

And finally, how does one incorporate either of them into one's worship?  Are there any special ways to address the spirits of the land, as opposed to, say, deities?  And is the traditional 'leave-milk-out-for-the-Fair-Folk' going to get me too much attention from beings whose attention I would prefer not to have?

It can be a difficult question, differentiating between the gods, sidhe and ancestors. The ancestors tend to be slightly more cut and dried, except that there is the notion of ancestral spirits being deified or becoming associated with a specific geographic location or function. The sources are considerably unhelpful with this, as they were not written by the pre-Christian Gaels. So questoions which can arise:

Was there a distinction between the deities and local spirits of place?
Were the Sidhe known as the sidhe before the conversion to Christianity? There is certainly evidence of the ritual importance of the grave mounds, and evidence of burial customs attests to the notion that the mounds were viewed as a place where the ancestors "went" after death, but did those mounds have deities associated with them apart from ancestral spirits, or was there such a clear distinction?

Unfortunately there are more questions than answers, as most of the "facts" regarding pre-Christian beliefs are inferences; though they are the best available inferences we have.
Logged

Due civility never broke a mans head, and great is the pity to be at any time without it.

Have a gander at my blog: Three Shouts on a Hilltop
Vella Malachite
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 31, 2011, 03:27:04 am
Australia Australia

Religion: Irish Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 368


Never underestimate carefully worded nonsense.

Blog entries (3)



Ignore
« Reply #5: October 08, 2010, 02:53:23 am »

I really don't suggest doing this until you have a pretty decent relationship with them. 

*snip*

I hope this helps you out somewhat.

Yeah, I think the "decent relationship" is something that I always knew I'd have to have before I did anything.  I'm not so worried about having a relationship with them as accidentally offending them, through doing something that I didn't know was wrong - by most accounts, they've got their own rules, and I don't even know the half of them (or even half the ones that humans know - I'm sure there's others besides)

And it does, thanks!
Logged

Minds are like parachutes: Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he is a man, but when he is a spinning ball of ammonia and methane must be silent?
Vella Malachite
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 31, 2011, 03:27:04 am
Australia Australia

Religion: Irish Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 368


Never underestimate carefully worded nonsense.

Blog entries (3)



Ignore
« Reply #6: October 08, 2010, 02:55:27 am »

I second the candy part.
Last summer we bbq-ed some marshmellows and I literally felt them peaking over my shoulder and felt their interest in having one of those. Of course the got one. Wink

I do not know if this can work or will work for other folks, but the faeries entered into my life through this:
http://www.worldoffroud.com/www/online/oracle/
I saw those cards online and I knew I needed to get them.

That is one really pretty site.  I had a look through the little card thing, and they're very cool.  My school has a copy of "Good Faeries/Bad Faeries", so I might read through that.

Also, I will file away the candy info for future reference.  It may be useful.
Logged

Minds are like parachutes: Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he is a man, but when he is a spinning ball of ammonia and methane must be silent?
Vella Malachite
Master Member
****
Last Login:July 31, 2011, 03:27:04 am
Australia Australia

Religion: Irish Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 368


Never underestimate carefully worded nonsense.

Blog entries (3)



Ignore
« Reply #7: October 08, 2010, 03:02:10 am »

...Personally, I don't know why you would draw any distinction between the sidhe in general and a specific "spirit of place" in a Celtic context. Pretty much every fairy that can be named in the lore is associated with a particular locale. So, if there's any difference, I'm not seeing it.

It can be a difficult question, differentiating between the gods, sidhe and ancestors. The ancestors tend to be slightly more cut and dried, except that there is the notion of ancestral spirits being deified or becoming associated with a specific geographic location or function. The sources are considerably unhelpful with this, as they were not written by the pre-Christian Gaels.

Unfortunately there are more questions than answers, as most of the "facts" regarding pre-Christian beliefs are inferences; though they are the best available inferences we have.

I see.  I get what Malkin means about there being very little difference...that kind of makes sense to me.

Also, I noticed that the lines blur a lot.  So if I consider the sidhe and land spirits in a similar vein, if not outright the same creatures, is that a logical assumption, or is that just me oversimplifying for the sake of my own understanding?  The way I understand it at the moment is that the sidhe were often protectors or keepers of certain areas, whether aggressive or not, but they were not necessarily attached to any one place.  Is that reasonable?

It's a pity, sometimes, that there isn't more information readily available, but hey, we do the best we can, right?
Logged

Minds are like parachutes: Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean you can borrow mine.

What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter as if he is a man, but when he is a spinning ball of ammonia and methane must be silent?
dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #8: October 08, 2010, 10:23:37 am »

That is one really pretty site.  I had a look through the little card thing, and they're very cool.  My school has a copy of "Good Faeries/Bad Faeries", so I might read through that.

Also, I will file away the candy info for future reference.  It may be useful.

If it's the book I'm thinking of, I gave that to my mom.  I thought it was just a 'fun' book, not a guide book to faeries.  Is the information in the book real?  Just curious.
Logged
Tana
Staff
High Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:July 26, 2013, 08:37:48 am
Germany Germany

Religion: I'm my Lady's own
Posts: 3407


fence-riding, free-flowing, shamagic = crazy

Blog entries (4)

WWW
« Reply #9: October 08, 2010, 10:51:53 am »

If it's the book I'm thinking of, I gave that to my mom.  I thought it was just a 'fun' book, not a guide book to faeries.  Is the information in the book real?  Just curious.

I dont know about the book, just the cards.
And define "real".  Cheesy

I can answer, that the faeries on those cards, are real.
You can connect with them through the oracle.

If you mean real like in folk tales - I dont think so.
But I never found the tales to be too helpful imo.
Logged

'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation. That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance. You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long. All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.' Terry Pratchett 'Lords and Ladies'

(The FB button in my profile does not work, if you like go and add me: Tana Adaneth, the one with the Doom Kitty avatar Wink)

Only shallow people know themselves. (Oscar Wilde)
yewberry
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 02, 2014, 04:15:33 pm
United States United States

Posts: 2087

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: October 08, 2010, 12:17:34 pm »

If it's the book I'm thinking of, I gave that to my mom.  I thought it was just a 'fun' book, not a guide book to faeries.  Is the

I think it's an art book by Brian Froud.

Brina
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 01:17:49 pm by Star, Reason: Fixing quote code » Logged
dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: October 08, 2010, 02:09:51 pm »

I think it's an art book by Brian Froud.


Yeah, that's the one I got her.  The art is really good, the 'facts' for each of them are fun, but I never thought of it as a guide to faeries.  I looked at the reviews, it seems some people are using it as a guide. http://www.amazon.com/Good-Faeries-Bad-Brian-Froud/dp/0684847817
Logged
Kelley
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 23, 2010, 12:25:21 pm
United States United States

Religion: Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 60

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: October 10, 2010, 02:01:02 pm »

It can be a difficult question, differentiating between the gods, sidhe and ancestors.

I think of the categories "Gods", Sidhe", and "Ancestors" as being like three attraction points arranged in a triangle on a graph. Most beings are clustered around one of the dots, but there are those that are halfway in between two or three or moving in the direction. There are no clear dividing lines.

As to attracting unwanted beings, I think of it the same way I do of offering to the Fomhor: they are there already and offering to them prevents problems.

The art in the books is based off actual sitings by Froud, at least according to him.

-- K.
Logged
dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: October 10, 2010, 05:33:35 pm »

The art in the books is based off actual sitings by Froud, at least according to him.

-- K.

He actually saw a bad faery dancing on a lightbulb till it blew out? I diffidently remember that bad faery cause we were laughing that we must have a houseful of them.  Grin
Logged
Kelley
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 23, 2010, 12:25:21 pm
United States United States

Religion: Celtic Reconstructionist
Posts: 60

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: October 11, 2010, 08:28:58 pm »

He actually saw a bad faery dancing on a lightbulb till it blew out? I diffidently remember that bad faery cause we were laughing that we must have a houseful of them.  Grin

That's what he says, yes. It does sound like something some of them would do.  Grin

-- K.
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Ren Fair?? « 1 2 »
Social Discussion Boards
Kasmira 29 6701 Last post October 09, 2007, 07:15:18 pm
by Hyacinth Belle
Wassail from the Land of the Midnight Sun.
Introductions
Rauðbjørn 13 3319 Last post September 04, 2008, 02:27:57 pm
by Zylah
Land Spirits and the Like.
Pagan Spirituality
Mata 10 4120 Last post June 24, 2011, 08:10:32 am
by Friskin
To the people who speak to deities/spirits/fairies/land spirits...
Paganism For Beginners
Jujulinda 9 2465 Last post April 24, 2011, 12:02:52 pm
by Winter Lavender
House and Land Spirits/Wights
Miscellaneous Religious Discussions
MysticRayne 6 4371 Last post May 22, 2011, 10:31:36 am
by Asch
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.058 seconds with 50 queries.