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Author Topic: Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground  (Read 17638 times)
Star
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« Reply #30: October 07, 2010, 08:19:50 am »

Mmmm. This may be harsher than necessary since we don't know all the facts. Specifically, we don't know why he didn't pay the fee - the article says he thought they'd come anyway, but not that that was his only reason for not paying. If he was hard up somehow, through no fault of his own, then we can't blame him for not paying and the decision to let his house burn's regrettable.

And to extend that, we also don't know what provisions are in place to help those who cannot afford the fee.  We don't have all the facts, you're right.

However, again...  However unjust it might be, this is the system as it stands, and while your home is burning is not the time to try to change it.  It's the surprise over the firefighters not doing the thing they weren't paid to do (regardless of why they weren't paid), the expectation that they'll do the job despite their stated requirements not being met, that I have little sympathy for.  We can't blame him for not paying, maybe, but we can blame him for having unrealistic expectations about what would happen as a result of that.
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« Reply #31: October 07, 2010, 08:23:45 am »

The problem is, remember, that this guy doesn't live in the city. He doesn't pay city taxes. He has no right to demand or expect services from the city. The city made an offer to extend him fire protection for $75 a year...which is a downright bargain in my opinion

The city should be offering the fire (and other government services the county can't provide) service to the county government (Not the individual taxpayers), which should pay for it.  Then the country can raise taxes to pay for it.  I am not saying that it shouldn't be paid for.  Fires are a public-safety concern.  If a person doesn't have the fire service and thier home catches fire, it could easily spread to forests and/or other homes which puts other people's property/lives in jeopardy.  Going to the individual people is really a form of extortion.
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« Reply #32: October 07, 2010, 08:28:34 am »

Mmmm. This may be harsher than necessary since we don't know all the facts. Specifically, we don't know why he didn't pay the fee -

Ooooo.  Um.  As I was typing my response, a friend was sharing this on Google Reader:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/

"Cranick, who lives outside the city limits, admits he "forgot" to pay the annual $75 fee."

There are still lots of perfectly good reasons why someone might forget, but...
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« Reply #33: October 07, 2010, 08:36:02 am »

Ooooo.  Um.  As I was typing my response, a friend was sharing this on Google Reader:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/

"Cranick, who lives outside the city limits, admits he "forgot" to pay the annual $75 fee."

There are still lots of perfectly good reasons why someone might forget, but...

...definitely leaning towards the not-sympathetic side then.
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« Reply #34: October 07, 2010, 08:40:18 am »

Ooooo.  Um.  As I was typing my response, a friend was sharing this on Google Reader:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/

"Cranick, who lives outside the city limits, admits he "forgot" to pay the annual $75 fee."

There are still lots of perfectly good reasons why someone might forget, but...

During the Facebook discussion I had with a few friends, one of them said they had read (somewhere, no source) that this wasn't the first time this particular fellow "forgot." According to the friend, at least one other incident occurred with this same man--there was a fire, the dept showed up, and let him pay after the fact. Somehow I don't have any trouble believing that, either. "Well, just this once, okay . . ."  (That may have been in a radio or tv interview, come to think of it. It wasn't in a print reference, or they'd have given a link.)
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« Reply #35: October 07, 2010, 08:54:42 am »

During the Facebook discussion I had with a few friends, one of them said they had read (somewhere, no source) that this wasn't the first time this particular fellow "forgot." According to the friend, at least one other incident occurred with this same man--there was a fire, the dept showed up, and let him pay after the fact. Somehow I don't have any trouble believing that, either. "Well, just this once, okay . . ."  (That may have been in a radio or tv interview, come to think of it. It wasn't in a print reference, or they'd have given a link.)


I read that about him yesterday. It's one of the main reasons I'm not wholly sympathetic.

Obviously, I think the system as it's currently in place sucks and needs changing (and that would go for any other area where the set up is the same), and this incident drew attention to it, but I'm still imagining standing there while my house burned to the ground with my pets inside and a fire department not willing to put it out. That sets off my pissed off button....I'm just not pissed off at the same side consistently.
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« Reply #36: October 07, 2010, 09:07:49 am »

That sets off my pissed off button....I'm just not pissed off at the same side consistently.

It's always fairer to be an equal-opportunities pisser.  Grin
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« Reply #37: October 07, 2010, 09:17:32 am »

I read that about him yesterday. It's one of the main reasons I'm not wholly sympathetic.

Obviously, I think the system as it's currently in place sucks and needs changing (and that would go for any other area where the set up is the same), and this incident drew attention to it, but I'm still imagining standing there while my house burned to the ground with my pets inside and a fire department not willing to put it out. That sets off my pissed off button....I'm just not pissed off at the same side consistently.

I got the impression from the article that the house was *empty*.  Was there something about pets in the house, or is that just one of those can't help but see it things?

Because yes, I'd be pissed - but ESPECIALLY if this had happened before I would make DAMN sure to NEVER "forget" to pay that bill again!  Not go "oh, it's $75 per fire, deal if I need to" and walk on.

He should have realized he was playing roulette.  It wasn't a case of "oops".
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« Reply #38: October 07, 2010, 09:19:26 am »

I got the impression from the article that the house was *empty*.  Was there something about pets in the house, or is that just one of those can't help but see it things?

Three dogs and a cat.

Quote
Because yes, I'd be pissed - but ESPECIALLY if this had happened before I would make DAMN sure to NEVER "forget" to pay that bill again!  Not go "oh, it's $75 per fire, deal if I need to" and walk on.

He should have realized he was playing roulette.  It wasn't a case of "oops".

Like I said, I get pissed at both sides equally.
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« Reply #39: October 07, 2010, 09:21:22 am »

Three dogs and a cat.

Like I said, I get pissed at both sides equally.

OOF.  Yes, it is harder when there are pets inside.  Ouch.
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« Reply #40: October 07, 2010, 11:08:27 am »

The city should be offering the fire (and other government services the county can't provide) service to the county government (Not the individual taxpayers), which should pay for it.  Then the country can raise taxes to pay for it.  I am not saying that it shouldn't be paid for.  Fires are a public-safety concern.  If a person doesn't have the fire service and thier home catches fire, it could easily spread to forests and/or other homes which puts other people's property/lives in jeopardy.  Going to the individual people is really a form of extortion.

But, if the local's don't want to pay uped taxes, they  just vote the raised taxes down, which happens all the time, and then the city can go to the individuals and offer services.
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« Reply #41: October 07, 2010, 11:58:25 am »

I lived in an area where a fee like this was imposed. We never let anyone's house burn. There was a penalty applied to the bill they received and liens placed if the bill was not paid.

The fire department should lose their status, as should all of the firefighters. I hope they live in shame the rest of their lives. Would they have helped save human life? I am not so sure.

The man  offered to pay whatever they wanted. They wanted his house to burn as an example to others who do not pay. The mayor showed or offfered no remorse only issued a "Its what happens if they don't pay."
You can bet this man was not well thought of in some way, as this is a small town.
In the community I lived, there was a fire at one of the non-favorite residents. The firechief/ex-firechief stalled the trucks. I was an EMT on scene. We helped the children out. Not the fire department. When they arrived they were horrified. The fire fighters worked together to get their chief ousted and we helped.

I needed to vent this.

Thank you.

Abbie
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« Reply #42: October 07, 2010, 12:06:28 pm »

There was a penalty applied to the bill they received and liens placed if the bill was not paid.

I think this is a reasonable solution, personally; I think it should be a hefty, deterring fine, so that it doesn't become the norm, but I think something like this is infinitely preferable to watching someone's house burn down.
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« Reply #43: October 07, 2010, 12:14:57 pm »

Because yes, I'd be pissed - but ESPECIALLY if this had happened before I would make DAMN sure to NEVER "forget" to pay that bill again!  Not go "oh, it's $75 per fire, deal if I need to" and walk on.

He should have realized he was playing roulette.  It wasn't a case of "oops".

It sounded from the tone of the article like he was fully expecting to just have them show up and pay them later...again.

Here, our fire departments are ALL volunteer.  We live in a very rural area.  When there's a levy, I ALWAYS vote for it, and I generally don't vote for levies.  But always the fire levies, yes.  I almost wish it were opt-in instead of relying on voters.  I would gladly pay $75/year for fire department service.  As it is, I vote for it, and it generally passes, but if it didn't, I'd be up a creek and there wouldn't even be anything I could do about it.  At least if it were opt-in, I could assure that I personally would have some kind of protection.
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« Reply #44: October 07, 2010, 12:18:38 pm »


Three dogs and a cat.

Like I said, I get pissed at both sides equally.

Honestly, the only thing about this that makes me mad at the fire department is the pets.  Why should they burn to death (which, really, is there very many ways to die more horrible that that?) just because their owner is a big douchenozzle. I don't give a shit about his house; he's the fool who decided to take the gamble, if that leaves him homeless for awhile, f**k him, it's his own damn fault.
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