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Author Topic: Your Path--And Your Mental Disorder  (Read 18307 times)
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« Reply #60: October 19, 2010, 09:53:18 pm »

(btw, there ARE Wiccan groups that pull the same "get right with the Goddess and get off your meds" crap.  Avoid them)

AAArgh!  Hates them forever, my precious!

I've been told this before. It was an offhand comment somebody made in a metaphysical store where I was doing readings at the time.  "If people resort to taking medications, there's something wrong with their craft."

First of all, it implies that patrons of the store have a "craft".  Not everybody does magic of any kind.

Second....grrr...have I mentioned I hate these people? 

I've heard almost the exact same comment made about people with financial issues.  Made, of course, by somebody who was absolutely rolling in it, and whose parents had given them a big financial boost before they got their career started. 
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« Reply #61: October 19, 2010, 10:32:28 pm »

(btw, there ARE Wiccan groups that pull the same "get right with the Goddess and get off your meds" crap.  Avoid them)

I never have understood those groups. Of course, I can barely understand the Christian version of this attitude and the Christian deity is slightly more suited to this attitude.
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« Reply #62: October 20, 2010, 05:17:23 am »

I've heard almost the exact same comment made about people with financial issues.  Made, of course, by somebody who was absolutely rolling in it, and whose parents had given them a big financial boost before they got their career started. 

All the witches I know are more or less broke - like it is for normal folks nowadays. *shrugs*
I was never able to muster up enough criminal energy to charge horrendous prices for my witchy services - not that I think it is wrong to charge for honest work, not at all - but it would be nothing an average witch could make a living from.

And the issue with medication - downright dangerous.
There might be the possibility to heal yourself from one or two things via witch ways, but it would be nothing to recommend to everybody and to look down on folks because they rely on medication - that just sucks.
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« Reply #63: October 20, 2010, 07:04:52 am »

I never have understood those groups. Of course, I can barely understand the Christian version of this attitude and the Christian deity is slightly more suited to this attitude.

You know I don't get this either.  I finally had to tell my family ... if God wants to heal me, fine, then heal me already!  I will gladly get off of my medication.  Until then I'm popping pills.  My Grandpa is 90 years old, has been a minister for 50 of those and I didn't see anyone telling him what a spawn of the devil he was for taking his insulin!  I sort of thought that if God was gonna heal anyone it would be him before me!  Guess what?  He still takes his meds everyday too.  There was a huge fuss when the doctor put him on anti-depressants for awhile after my Grandma died.  They had been married for 63 years!  I think close-mindedness is my biggest pet peeve ever.  Grrr ...   

As for groups and/or people like this ... If I ever hear that crap I will tell them what I have told everyone else.  Who are you to judge what is right for me?  Even my doctor doesn't go against my wishes if I tell him something isn't working for me and we need to look at a different medication.  No one knows what is going on inside of me, physically or otherwise, but me.

I have also found that arguing resolves nothing and the best way to end a discussion or argument is simply to leave it.  The mouths hanging open as I look back usually give me a laugh and boost up anyway.   Grin << insert evil laugh
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« Reply #64: October 20, 2010, 10:45:23 am »

I'll also note that there is nothing about my current diagnosis of Major Depression, nor past diagnoses of bipolar disorder (which were most likely inaccurate) that has been beneficial to my spirituality...unless you want to count the perseverance it takes to work around feeling empty and listless in order to practice.

Other people have echoed this sentiment which is interesting to me. For me, finding Paganism (or more precisely, Wiccan) saved me as a confused, emotionally ravaged young girl. My spirituality and mental disorders are intertwined, for better or for worse. When I was 11, I moved from Michigan to Iowa, and that was when I really began having terrible emotional problems. I, too, was emo before it was cool! People were really mean to me; I had no friends at all, for two years. I would hurt myself, without knowing why. One night I pulled out every single one of my eyelashes because some boy called me ugly at school that day. Just sat there, ripping them out, one by one, enjoying how the sensation made my emotional hurt fade.

One day my dad was visiting from California. He took me to a bookstore and said pick out whatever you want. As fate would have it, I stumbled upon the New Age section and happened to pick out Gerina Dunwich's Wiccan Love Spells. AS silly as it is, it was my first glimpse at Paganism and I wouldn't have found it had I not been such a silly young thing. The love spells were perhaps not appropriate at that time, but her description of Wicca was like honey on my raw, sore throat of sadness.

Oh, and I'm a rapid cycling Bipolar, and Borderline Personality Disorder, which is, in some ways worse. The stigma, the lack of understanding, the obnoxious "Oh, everyone feels like that sometimes," when I actually try to reach out and explain how I feel and why I react the way I do. This is why I don't try that much anymore. It hurts too badly to get shut down like that. When they say that, I just want to slap them hard across the face and scream, "YEAH BUT DOES EVERYONE F-ING REACT LIKE THAT WHEN PROVOKED??? Has EVERYone broken many of their most prized possessions in fits of fury, you smug douche?" At least (in my experience) Bi-polar is a more accepted diagnosis rather than: slutty-emotionally-fucked-girl-with-daddy-issues-disorder, which is how I've heard it described by a psych major co-worker.

I have very bad abandonment issues which inform my emotional excess. And when I feel so horribly alone, without a single person who loves or understands me, I can turn to my spirituality and feel like at least someone understands, I can talk to spirits of animals and the oceans and feel not quite so alone. Ironically enough, I get very anxious and feel abandoned and alone in large crowds too. Good to hear that mary-jane helps other people, I was wondering that recently, as it helps so much when I get overly manic. I also occasionally take Kratom, which I recommend for when you're too depressed to get out of bed or know you will have anxiety issues. It's legal in the US. Research it if you are interested, it's a great tree/herb from South East Asia/Pacifica. (I hope it's ok to mention this, it feels shady, but it's just a medicinal herb; it's legal here and in most other countries)
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« Reply #65: October 20, 2010, 11:01:57 am »

AAArgh!  Hates them forever, my precious!

I've been told this before. It was an offhand comment somebody made in a metaphysical store where I was doing readings at the time.  "If people resort to taking medications, there's something wrong with their craft."

Quick way to raise my blood pressure. Not only cruel and judgmental, but often based on lazy thinking - exactly how are medicines not of God?  Angry
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« Reply #66: October 20, 2010, 11:04:32 am »

Other people have echoed this sentiment which is interesting to me. For me, finding Paganism (or more precisely, Wiccan) saved me as a confused, emotionally ravaged young girl. My spirituality and mental disorders are intertwined, for better or for worse.

I think it is fantastic if spirituality helps one through mental illness, but it has never been like that for me, regardless of the religious path on which I found myself.

Quote
One night I pulled out every single one of my eyelashes because some boy called me ugly at school that day. Just sat there, ripping them out, one by one, enjoying how the sensation made my emotional hurt fade.

Trichotillomania is awful!  I know a woman who pulled out all of her eyelashes to the point where they won't grow back.  She's having to have eyelash implants now because of the lack of eye protection.

Quote
Oh, and I'm a rapid cycling Bipolar, and Borderline Personality Disorder, which is, in some ways worse. The stigma, the lack of understanding, the obnoxious "Oh, everyone feels like that sometimes," when I actually try to reach out and explain how I feel and why I react the way I do. This is why I don't try that much anymore. It hurts too badly to get shut down like that. When they say that, I just want to slap them hard across the face and scream, "YEAH BUT DOES EVERYONE F-ING REACT LIKE THAT WHEN PROVOKED??? Has EVERYone broken many of their most prized possessions in fits of fury, you smug douche?" At least (in my experience) Bi-polar is a more accepted diagnosis rather than: slutty-emotionally-fucked-girl-with-daddy-issues-disorder, which is how I've heard it described by a psych major co-worker.

I have some of the emotional overflow issues that people with Borderline Personality Disorder do and, funnily enough, I have a workbook that actually helps with that.  It's called the Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook, and it has tons of exercises in it that have helped me.

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« Reply #67: October 20, 2010, 11:51:49 am »

Other people have echoed this sentiment which is interesting to me. For me, finding Paganism (or more precisely, Wiccan) saved me as a confused, emotionally ravaged young girl. My spirituality and mental disorders are intertwined, for better or for worse. When I was 11, I moved from Michigan to Iowa, and that was when I really began having terrible emotional problems. I, too, was emo before it was cool! People were really mean to me; I had no friends at all, for two years. I would hurt myself, without knowing why. One night I pulled out every single one of my eyelashes because some boy called me ugly at school that day. Just sat there, ripping them out, one by one, enjoying how the sensation made my emotional hurt fade.

One day my dad was visiting from California. He took me to a bookstore and said pick out whatever you want. As fate would have it, I stumbled upon the New Age section and happened to pick out Gerina Dunwich's Wiccan Love Spells. AS silly as it is, it was my first glimpse at Paganism and I wouldn't have found it had I not been such a silly young thing. The love spells were perhaps not appropriate at that time, but her description of Wicca was like honey on my raw, sore throat of sadness.

Oh, and I'm a rapid cycling Bipolar, and Borderline Personality Disorder, which is, in some ways worse. The stigma, the lack of understanding, the obnoxious "Oh, everyone feels like that sometimes," when I actually try to reach out and explain how I feel and why I react the way I do. This is why I don't try that much anymore. It hurts too badly to get shut down like that. When they say that, I just want to slap them hard across the face and scream, "YEAH BUT DOES EVERYONE F-ING REACT LIKE THAT WHEN PROVOKED??? Has EVERYone broken many of their most prized possessions in fits of fury, you smug douche?" At least (in my experience) Bi-polar is a more accepted diagnosis rather than: slutty-emotionally-fucked-girl-with-daddy-issues-disorder, which is how I've heard it described by a psych major co-worker.

I have very bad abandonment issues which inform my emotional excess. And when I feel so horribly alone, without a single person who loves or understands me, I can turn to my spirituality and feel like at least someone understands, I can talk to spirits of animals and the oceans and feel not quite so alone. Ironically enough, I get very anxious and feel abandoned and alone in large crowds too. Good to hear that mary-jane helps other people, I was wondering that recently, as it helps so much when I get overly manic. I also occasionally take Kratom, which I recommend for when you're too depressed to get out of bed or know you will have anxiety issues. It's legal in the US. Research it if you are interested, it's a great tree/herb from South East Asia/Pacifica. (I hope it's ok to mention this, it feels shady, but it's just a medicinal herb; it's legal here and in most other countries)

Wow. Wow. I read your post and I'm still sitting here goin' wow. Your story, not to sound cliched, made my heart rip itself up. It always pains me to hear about when someone hurts themselves because of that emotional pain, because I know exactly how that feels. Hell, everyone's story has been tugging at my heartstrings. But I think that by sharing we're getting closer and wiser as human beings.

It's comforting to know someone else had school problems. I accidentally peed myself in first grade and the teacher refused to let me go to the nurse all day--and it was ALL downhill from there. No matter where we moved [we moved a lot] it seemed like the kids had secretly communicated with each other and knew that there was a weirdo on the way. I did not know how to make friends, and went about it disastrously when I got the opportunity. I finally found a boy that would hang out at me with recess, and together we plotted to escape school and society and live in the woods like in My Side of the Mountain. But a teacher found our super-secret-supply-list and did the worst thing possible--called the school counselor, who pulled me right out of the middle of class and then, after I begged on my knees in tears for her not to, the moron called my parents. No more friends.

The lack of understanding in your post struck me as the most forceful of all. That is a HUGE problem! I HATE it when I try to describe something that is so powerful to me and am blown off as a dramatic twenty-something with a head full of pot and a bunch of mommy issues. When you mentioned breaking all of your prized possessions, I immediately flashbacked to my room 6 years ago, when I destroyed all of the beautiful paintings and sketches I had spent so long creating. Shit. Why don't people understand that this is not a dramatic gesture seeking attention? When you think and tell us that it is, it creates a much bigger problem! My mother would tell me that. It only made me tear myself apart. I got to the point where I couldn't even tell the part between reality and my fantasies, all because my mother told me I wasn't being "real".

ARGH. How can you explain properly to someone how something so small and flippant can start a firestorm?

And how can you explain how you picked up, and went on? For me changing moods is so easy now, I hardly realize I've switched from despair to zeal. I'll be having a conversation and completely switch topics and begin talking mostly to myself, leaving my friend in the dust. I can't describe to that person that it's not that I don't find what they say interesting--it's just that my mind latches on to new things, and quickly.

I need to learn more about this herb thing you mentioned! Also, there's an entheogen thread somewhere around here--let me find it--you might be interested: http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=11536.0

Also, fuck yeah, talking to oceans and trees.
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« Reply #68: October 20, 2010, 12:32:26 pm »

More of a constant battle, really.

Just a necessary one.

It seems to me, it seems to me ... Depression, depression is like Apep.  Relentless, inexorable, inhuman, constantly resisted, because losing means losing everything - not being destroyed, I've been destroyed, being unravelled, unmade, negated.  Erased.

Depression means I lose contact with any sense of the ability to connect with the divine, with my husbands, with the world as a whole; I am isolated, bereft, and alone.  It is living death.  (And now I'm connecting this up in all kinds of ways with the heavy dose of funerary literature and analysis I mainlined over the last six months.)  I feel ineffectual, unable, worthless; to the extent that I am capable of emotion, I am only capable of self-hatred.  To the extent I have drives, they are only towards self-annihilation.

This is not a state conducive to spiritual development.

The best I can say for religious development and depression is that I spent a few years self-medicating with regular ritual, and it helped.  It didn't help enough, it certainly didn't help anywhere near as much as Prozac, but it helped.
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« Reply #69: October 20, 2010, 02:12:30 pm »

I also occasionally take Kratom, which I recommend for when you're too depressed to get out of bed or know you will have anxiety issues. It's legal in the US. Research it if you are interested, it's a great tree/herb from South East Asia/Pacifica. (I hope it's ok to mention this, it feels shady, but it's just a medicinal herb; it's legal here and in most other countries)

Kratom, however, is a hallucinogen and can be highly addictive.  Further more, scientist are still testing it and the alkaloids in it may be counterproductive to people with serious mental disorders.  I would not recommend using it despite it being legal in the US.
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« Reply #70: October 20, 2010, 03:38:14 pm »

It seems to me, it seems to me ... Depression, depression is like Apep.  Relentless, inexorable, inhuman, constantly resisted, because losing means losing everything - not being destroyed, I've been destroyed, being unravelled, unmade, negated.  Erased.

Depression means I lose contact with any sense of the ability to connect with the divine, with my husbands, with the world as a whole; I am isolated, bereft, and alone.  It is living death.  (And now I'm connecting this up in all kinds of ways with the heavy dose of funerary literature and analysis I mainlined over the last six months.)  I feel ineffectual, unable, worthless; to the extent that I am capable of emotion, I am only capable of self-hatred.  To the extent I have drives, they are only towards self-annihilation.

This is not a state conducive to spiritual development.

The best I can say for religious development and depression is that I spent a few years self-medicating with regular ritual, and it helped.  It didn't help enough, it certainly didn't help anywhere near as much as Prozac, but it helped.

I love this description, Darkhawk; it really fits.
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« Reply #71: October 20, 2010, 03:52:43 pm »

Kratom, however, is a hallucinogen and can be highly addictive.  Further more, scientist are still testing it and the alkaloids in it may be counterproductive to people with serious mental disorders.  I would not recommend using it despite it being legal in the US.

Thank you very much for the warning.
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« Reply #72: October 20, 2010, 04:39:56 pm »

Kratom, however, is a hallucinogen and can be highly addictive.  Further more, scientist are still testing it and the alkaloids in it may be counterproductive to people with serious mental disorders.  I would not recommend using it despite it being legal in the US.

While I'm not a doctor, just off the top of my head using a hallucinogen (let alone one believed to be fairly addictive) in a attempt to depression sounds very off base. From what I know of clinical depression, I just don't think a hallucinogen would be very effective treatment.
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« Reply #73: October 20, 2010, 04:59:03 pm »

While I'm not a doctor, just off the top of my head using a hallucinogen (let alone one believed to be fairly addictive) in a attempt to depression sounds very off base. From what I know of clinical depression, I just don't think a hallucinogen would be very effective treatment.

I'm not saying here that one should or shouldn't ... but it's very interesting how a lot of people use some sort of self-medication to help get through their episodes or help stay out of them.  My doctor warned me about using mary jane because it can increase the paranoia (was he ever right too!).  It's the main reason I put my son on medication when he was diagnosed ADD/ADHD  and Depressive Mood Disorder... I didn't want him self-medicating like I did when I was young.   I find that when I take my regularly prescribed meds that I don't need to self-medicate.  Not saying I don't have a drink, etc. for fun on occasion ... just not out of need.  That's me though and I'm grateful too. 

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« Reply #74: October 20, 2010, 05:03:44 pm »

It seems to me, it seems to me ... Depression, depression is like Apep.  Relentless, inexorable, inhuman, constantly resisted, because losing means losing everything - not being destroyed, I've been destroyed, being unravelled, unmade, negated.  Erased.

Depression means I lose contact with any sense of the ability to connect with the divine, with my husbands, with the world as a whole; I am isolated, bereft, and alone.  It is living death.  (And now I'm connecting this up in all kinds of ways with the heavy dose of funerary literature and analysis I mainlined over the last six months.)  I feel ineffectual, unable, worthless; to the extent that I am capable of emotion, I am only capable of self-hatred.  To the extent I have drives, they are only towards self-annihilation.

This is not a state conducive to spiritual development.


I agree with veggiewolf ... this is a horribly accurate description!
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