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Author Topic: I don't know where to put this!!! To All Marijuana Enthusiasts  (Read 17407 times)
Czarina369cz
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« Topic Start: November 18, 2010, 02:41:03 pm »

I realize there may be a better place to put this thread, any suggestions? 
I understand also that not everyone here at TC lives in America. (An American who realizes there is a lot more world than the continental United States?!).  And I understand that not everyone here at TC smokes pot.  I do not know the differences in European and American drug laws.
     It doesn't have much to do with paganism, but pagans know how it feels to be ostracized in society.  So do people who use marijuana.  So I guess I could tie it into human rights, listed not far from freedom of religion.  Some folks take their pot very seriously. 

     Here in the US, there is a former drug interdiction officer from Texas that quit law enforcement after nearly a decade and now teaches people how to not get busted.  His name is Barry Cooper.  I would post a video link, but I do not want it to be mistaken for an advertisement opportunity.  I, in no way, shape or form, am profiting by introducing who this guy is.  But I feel that he has something to say. 

     If you want me to lead you to some good videos, say so.  I will post links worthy of your time.
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« Reply #1: November 18, 2010, 03:06:06 pm »

     It doesn't have much to do with paganism, but pagans know how it feels to be ostracized in society.  So do people who use marijuana.  So I guess I could tie it into human rights, listed not far from freedom of religion.  Some folks take their pot very seriously. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not allowing people to smoke marijuana DOES NOT equal a human rights violation.  Pointless?  Yes, but it doesn't meet any standard of human rights violation that I could find.

Quote
     Here in the US, there is a former drug interdiction officer from Texas that quit law enforcement after nearly a decade and now teaches people how to not get busted.  His name is Barry Cooper.  I would post a video link, but I do not want it to be mistaken for an advertisement opportunity.  I, in no way, shape or form, am profiting by introducing who this guy is.  But I feel that he has something to say. 

     If you want me to lead you to some good videos, say so.  I will post links worthy of your time.

You will not be allowed to post the videos to this forum.  As per the rules which state:

Quote
Obey US Law in all activity on The Cauldron.

Posting a video that instructs people how to break the law could potentially get this forum into legal trouble, so no.

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Czarina369cz
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« Reply #2: November 18, 2010, 04:58:11 pm »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not allowing people to smoke marijuana DOES NOT equal a human rights violation.  Pointless?  Yes, but it doesn't meet any standard of human rights violation that I could find.

You will not be allowed to post the videos to this forum.  As per the rules which state:

Posting a video that instructs people how to break the law could potentially get this forum into legal trouble, so no.

Melamphoros, TC Board Staff

Fair enough!
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« Reply #3: November 18, 2010, 06:11:22 pm »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that not allowing people to smoke marijuana DOES NOT equal a human rights violation.  Pointless?  Yes, but it doesn't meet any standard of human rights violation that I could find.

Calling it a human rights violation trivializes real human rights violations.
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« Reply #4: November 18, 2010, 10:50:23 pm »

Calling it a human rights violation trivializes real human rights violations.

Agreed. The way I see it, there are a billion starving people in the world, 1 million homeless kids in this country, a 9 out of 10 chance for an LGBT child or teen to be bullied or harassed because of their gender identity or sexual orientation, and the majority of rapes go unreported AND are perpetrated by people the victim knows personally. Not being able to do some little recreational drug? Get in line.
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« Reply #5: November 18, 2010, 11:49:17 pm »

Agreed. The way I see it, there are a billion starving people in the world, 1 million homeless kids in this country, a 9 out of 10 chance for an LGBT child or teen to be bullied or harassed because of their gender identity or sexual orientation, and the majority of rapes go unreported AND are perpetrated by people the victim knows personally. Not being able to do some little recreational drug? Get in line.

I also agree. There are so many evils in the world, people complaining about something that is illegal? I've been around those who do smoke pot and all I can do is shake my head and pray the gods have pity on them. If the people in the government legalize pot then it'll be something else people want legal and then another thing. See where I am going?
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« Reply #6: November 19, 2010, 01:49:10 am »

I also agree. There are so many evils in the world, people complaining about something that is illegal? I've been around those who do smoke pot and all I can do is shake my head and pray the gods have pity on them.

You might be generalizing.  Like, a lot.  I agree that there are far more pressing social matters than the legalization of marijuana.  I don't, however, think it's a more dangerous drug than alcohol, and is probably far less so.  Its legalization for recreational use would divert massive amounts of law enforcement funds to fighting real crime.  And as that's my tax money, I do have some say in how it's used, and in this case squandered, on petty drug offenses involving a comparatively (vs. something like meth, f'ex) innocuous drug.

Quote
If the people in the government legalize pot then it'll be something else people want legal and then another thing. See where I am going?

Decades of demonization, not the true impact of marijuana on its users, drives current drug policy.  I'd prefer to see a bit of rational discourse on both sides of the issue.

Brina


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« Reply #7: November 19, 2010, 02:05:04 am »

You might be generalizing.  Like, a lot.  I agree that there are far more pressing social matters than the legalization of marijuana.  I don't, however, think it's a more dangerous drug than alcohol, and is probably far less so.  Its legalization for recreational use would divert massive amounts of law enforcement funds to fighting real crime.  And as that's my tax money, I do have some say in how it's used, and in this case squandered, on petty drug offenses involving a comparatively (vs. something like meth, f'ex) innocuous drug.

This.

There's also a bit for me where I think control of what people do with their bodies when it does not harm other people is a fundamental rights issue. This is not the most important one out there (this week, I'm far more irked by the new TSA screening 'choices'), but the principle ties in with a whole bunch of other things that *are* bigger issues, and sometimes being aware of what else is affected is handy.

As opposed to say, meth, where the production can be explosive, creates ongoing hazards for people in the same physical area, etc. far above and beyond the actual effects of the drug. Or the difference between drinking at home (individual person's call) and drinking+driving (a danger to other people on the roads), or drinking when it leads to assault/abusive behavior/etc. (more complicated, but also not in the interest of society.)

People being people, the details get complicated, but the basic principle's still worth poking at and seeing what consistency of application might look like.
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« Reply #8: November 19, 2010, 05:16:34 am »

I've been around those who do smoke pot and all I can do is shake my head and pray the gods have pity on them.

I would find praying for the gods to have pity on someone rather sanctimonious. And I'm wondering where medical marijuana users fall in your view.
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« Reply #9: November 19, 2010, 05:21:27 am »

Calling it a human rights violation trivializes real human rights violations.

Yes, it does.

That said -- I think a case could be made in the case of the Rastafari movement -- infringing on freedom to manifest practice of one's religion.

I wouldn't put it high on my list of "human rights violations priorities", however.
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« Reply #10: November 19, 2010, 05:37:17 am »

And I'm wondering where medical marijuana users fall in your view.

That certainly is a difficult subject anyway.
When long term very ill patients are denied the use of a medication that has been proven to be very benificial to them (and in some cases, no alternatives are available), that does border on the more serious of human rights.
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« Reply #11: November 19, 2010, 09:05:31 am »

That certainly is a difficult subject anyway.
When long term very ill patients are denied the use of a medication that has been proven to be very benificial to them (and in some cases, no alternatives are available), that does border on the more serious of human rights.

a nurse I used to work with lost her license over marijuana pain relief.  I'm beginning to know how she feels, since I'm developing the same issues she has. 
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« Reply #12: November 19, 2010, 09:37:25 am »

a nurse I used to work with lost her license over marijuana pain relief.  I'm beginning to know how she feels, since I'm developing the same issues she has. 

That's why (IMO) the first step should be declassification from Schedule I to Schedule II so that clinical trials can be performed more easily.  Most people recognize cocaine as a pretty serious drug...but cocaine is a Schedule II substance with a known medical benefit.

Part of the issue with legalization is the fact that it is so difficult to do trials with Schedule I medications  - meds in Schedule I simply are not recognized to have any medical benefit, period.  Until someone can grow marijuana with a consistent level of THC AND the DEA recognizes that trials are in the best interest of the public, legalization for recreation use shouldn't even be contemplated...it just muddies the waters.
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« Reply #13: November 19, 2010, 09:43:52 am »

Until someone can grow marijuana with a consistent level of THC AND the DEA recognizes that trials are in the best interest of the public, legalization for recreation use shouldn't even be contemplated...it just muddies the waters.

I find the waters very clear, personally.  We waste tons of money on neo-Prohibition, which primarily goes to funding organised crime syndicates, corrupting law enforcement, and enriching prison owners, because we are incapable of learning from the first time we tried something this stupid.

In order to justify this ludicrous expense, everything banned under neo-Prohibition has to be held to have no redeeming value whatsoever.  Enjoyment is not sufficient justification to the Puritan mindset, so medical effectiveness or other usages have to be fought relentlessly and denied lest everyone realise how much blood and cash has been wasted on this pointless enterprise.

It's all of a piece; break the chain at any point and the entire thing unravels.
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« Reply #14: November 19, 2010, 11:23:31 am »

I find the waters very clear, personally.  We waste tons of money on neo-Prohibition, which primarily goes to funding organised crime syndicates, corrupting law enforcement, and enriching prison owners, because we are incapable of learning from the first time we tried something this stupid.

In order to justify this ludicrous expense, everything banned under neo-Prohibition has to be held to have no redeeming value whatsoever.  Enjoyment is not sufficient justification to the Puritan mindset, so medical effectiveness or other usages have to be fought relentlessly and denied lest everyone realise how much blood and cash has been wasted on this pointless enterprise.

It's all of a piece; break the chain at any point and the entire thing unravels.

This.  Totally.

I have never understood why sane intelligent people can believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol.  Why I can drink myself silly every night after work, but still be considered a good employee, but god forbid that I ever smoke a joint.  Either way I will be foggy in the morning - if not the whole day - so why does one mean I will suddenly be embezzling funds (I'm an accountant) and the other just means I party hearty?  Total bullshit. 
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