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Author Topic: I don't know where to put this!!! To All Marijuana Enthusiasts  (Read 17406 times)
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« Reply #30: November 20, 2010, 12:06:48 pm »

PS. Your brain is nothing but chemicals manipulating each other! Also, did you know that there are special receptors in our brain specifically to receive delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol, the main chemical in marijuana? Funky, huh! Try watching the Botany of Desire--it's streaming now on Netflix, and it's by Michael Pollan, the food writer! The documentary, by the way, is not just about cannabis, but about apples and tulips and potatoes and their effects on our lives; the entire film is superb.

yeah, but normally you have a real life reason to feel happy. Taking marijuana artificially induces happiness. And while it could be less dangerous than alcohol, you're still damaging your brain.
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« Reply #31: November 20, 2010, 12:24:39 pm »

yeah, but normally you have a real life reason to feel happy. Taking marijuana artificially induces happiness. And while it could be less dangerous than alcohol, you're still damaging your brain.

Anti-depressants don't provide a real-life reason to be happy either.  Like pot, they don't change reality at all.  They just change your perspective on the real-life reasons to be UN-happy.  And, also like pot, they wear off and have to be re-applied.

What kind of damage are we talking about here, and what kinds of medical studies back it up?  Knitsy is correct about the delta 9 tetrahydrocannabino receptors in the brain.  Marijuana is not as demonized in Canada and Europe as it is in the States, and there have been real studies done that don't depend on assumptions and prejudices.

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« Reply #32: November 20, 2010, 12:55:19 pm »

What kind of damage are we talking about here, and what kinds of medical studies back it up?

What you said.  The few studies I've seen seem to indicate the opposite--that long-term brain damage isn't an issue, even with fairly regular users.

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« Reply #33: November 20, 2010, 01:31:42 pm »

Anti-depressants don't provide a real-life reason to be happy either.  Like pot, they don't change reality at all.  They just change your perspective on the real-life reasons to be UN-happy.  And, also like pot, they wear off and have to be re-applied.

What kind of damage are we talking about here, and what kinds of medical studies back it up?  Knitsy is correct about the delta 9 tetrahydrocannabino receptors in the brain.  Marijuana is not as demonized in Canada and Europe as it is in the States, and there have been real studies done that don't depend on assumptions and prejudices.

Absent

I'm sure you know more than I do about it.  I just didn't really understand that we're not even sure it has bad effects, because from what I read that fact was definite, we just aren't exactly sure what they are. I just read a bit about it because someone I really care about admitted to using it after I asked why he was acting so weird... It's a little bit of a touchy subject with me because I saw how it changed his mood so drastically the next day.
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« Reply #34: November 20, 2010, 03:14:45 pm »

It's a little bit of a touchy subject with me because I saw how it changed his mood so drastically the next day.

The day after he smoked it?  Or he smoked it the next day and it changed his mood?  Marijuana's active effects would not still be in his system the day after he smoked it, so any mood changes then would be down to himself or some other external factor.  If the second interpretation, how did his mood change?  If it truly was drastic (and pot tends to be a more subtle thing, unless the smoker is a teen) it may have been laced with something more serious.

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« Reply #35: November 20, 2010, 03:53:59 pm »

yeah, but normally you have a real life reason to feel happy. Taking marijuana artificially induces happiness. And while it could be less dangerous than alcohol, you're still damaging your brain.

No, actually, I do not have a "real life reason to be happy"--who does? Life is full of ups, downs, twists, turns, whatever. I suffer from bipolar disorder, which means that my brain does not make enough of the right chemicals to keep my moods balanced and in check. Coming from a daily user, marijuana does not induce artificial happiness. As Absent said before me, it changes your perception on what is important and what is appreciated in your life, the same way prescribed anti-depressants or mood stabilizers (such as the one my shrink prescribed to me, which I take daily) would do.

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« Reply #36: November 20, 2010, 04:31:18 pm »

yeah, but normally you have a real life reason to feel happy.

<disclaimer>I don't care if you smoke pot, or not. It's a personal choice; made for personal reasons.</disclaimer>

I'm not convinced that the same isn't true of pot; at a trivial level, I really did just have a cone in the real world, so how I'm feeling is certainly not imaginary.

At the more serious level I think you're really getting at, due to a choice that I have made I am experiencing an ongoing set of physical stimuli that alter my body chemistry in ways that signal to my brain that the stimulus is a Good Thing (TM); sounds a lot like massage to me (or sky-diving, or holding a baby). They both (all) cause chemicals to be introduced to my blood stream that have a huge impact on how the human body feels, thinks, responds to stressors, etc..

If you were suggesting that the artificial effects of pot are not the purely physiological effects (if such exist), but the emotional ones, then I don't understand the problem.

I have been smoking pot on a roughly daily basis for about 20 years. During that period of time I have never had an inappropriate emotional response to a subject. I do sometimes focus my attention on different aspects of situations, when I'm smoking, to the ones that I would focus on if I hadn't been smoking, which can lead to behaviour that is incongruous from the perspective of someone who is unaware of where my focus actually is (and assumes it is somewhere else). That said, pot doesn't make me laugh at sad things, or cry when I should be happy.

I think I'm trying to say that pot doesn't MAKE me happy; what it does do is quieten negative self-talk, heighten aspects of physical and auditory sensation, enhance favour perception, enhance my capacity to be 'in the moment' and reduce aspects of the perception of the passage of time. These are all things that make me happy (in a crudely epicurean sense admittedly) and pot is just one way of achieving them. It's not even easier, so there isn't even an aspect of 'but that's cheating' in the way that some (particularly, Christian protestant) people protest when entheogens are discussed.

For the record, I also been prescribed a type of amphetamine to quieten negative self talk (it's less effective, so I don't take it); I get massage and go to concerts, which heightens the acuity of my sensory perceptions, as well as immediately engaging; and I meditate to enhance my capacity to exist 'in the moment'. These are all supposedly admirable things (or at least broadly accepted as beneficial), yet they are artificial on each basis that I gets laid at the door of pot. Is there something that I'm just not getting?

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Taking marijuana artificially induces happiness. And while it could be less dangerous than alcohol, you're still damaging your brain.

I'm not aware of any research demonstrating that cannabinoids (the distinctive set of essential oils that distinguish pot from other plants) 'damag[e] your brain'. If you've got any links or references I'd love it if you could share them, as it's an area of some little interest to me Smiley If you were really just using it as a general comment, could you maybe be a little more specific in what it is that you believe the detrimental medical affects of pot are? Just the ones that are because it's pot; I know the ones that are to do with smoking any substance.
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« Reply #37: November 20, 2010, 04:37:47 pm »

What you said.  The few studies I've seen seem to indicate the opposite--that long-term brain damage isn't an issue, even with fairly regular users.

20+ years of pretty much daily use and I'm able to earn six figures using my brain to solve problems via analysis for 10 hours a day. I never smoke during work, but before work seems to improve productivity, focus, and the quality of outputs in terms of attention to detail and integration between component elements of the analysis. Anecdotal, I know, but it certainly demonstrates that impairment isn't a dead certainty Smiley Short-term memory of things that didn't initially engage my attention is worse when I smoke, but that rights itself if I stop for a few weeks for some reason.
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« Reply #38: November 20, 2010, 04:42:05 pm »

The day after he smoked it?  Or he smoked it the next day and it changed his mood?  Marijuana's active effects would not still be in his system the day after he smoked it, so any mood changes then would be down to himself or some other external factor.  If the second interpretation, how did his mood change?  If it truly was drastic (and pot tends to be a more subtle thing, unless the smoker is a teen) it may have been laced with something more serious.

Absent

Yeah, the day after. I mean, he smoked it late at night and I saw him the next morning. It wasn't super drastic, but it changed enough to really bother me.
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« Reply #39: November 20, 2010, 04:46:56 pm »

What you said.  The few studies I've seen seem to indicate the opposite--that long-term brain damage isn't an issue, even with fairly regular users.

The only studies I've seen that consistently show a real danger from pot are the ones that compare cancer rates of pot smokers and tobacco smokers, with the cancer rates being somewhat higher for pot smokers.
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« Reply #40: November 20, 2010, 04:55:18 pm »


What you said really made me feel better. I'm really glad if I don't have to worry about him and his brothers (who pretty much all smoke it) Like I said earlier, I don't know all that much about the subject. I just remember the very vague stuff they told us in health class and the few articles I've read about it.
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« Reply #41: November 20, 2010, 05:26:31 pm »

The same could be said of any drug used to treat mental issues.

Or alcohol.  Or sex.
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« Reply #42: November 20, 2010, 05:28:56 pm »

yeah, but normally you have a real life reason to feel happy.

Like, oh, "I'm doing something that I find pleasant"?
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« Reply #43: November 20, 2010, 06:57:08 pm »

.... because from what I read that fact was definite, we just aren't exactly sure what they are.

Chances are what you were reading was scare tactics, or someone with an agenda. If they can't say //what's// being damaged, they can't say //for sure// that 'something' is being damaged.

Too many people are quick to judge pot smokers, making themselves authority on a subject they've never experienced. I think the same can be said for a number of other entheogens, too. We're getting hit left and right with the idea that pot is somehow worse or just as bad as alcohol, meth, coke, speed.. whatever you name it. I always laugh when I hear comparisons of pot and hookah smokers to cigarette smokers. It assumes that the only bad thing thats getting into your lungs is smoke (which is bad for you, no matter what form) and an increased amount of tar (I'm still hearing a number of different things on that, though). Thats completely forgetting the insane amount of chemicals your average big corporation tobacco company puts in, which is //far// from being "pure tobacco". A quick web search can give you a list of what they add in there, which btw, are //not// added to pot and shisha.

I just really hate bad education.

(Edit note: Sorry, I accidentally submitted the post before I was done!)
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« Reply #44: November 20, 2010, 09:19:01 pm »

Too many people are quick to judge pot smokers, making themselves authority on a subject they've never experienced.

I agree that there is a lot of bad propaganda in schools and DARE programs about marijuana.  BUT, I don't think that we need to experience something personally to evaluate whether or not it is harmful/helpful.  I've never smoked pot, but I can read and evaluate the research to recognize that it is probably one the least harmful of the recreational drugs, and that it has some medical benefits.  (Although one thing that folks here haven't mentioned is that if you are smoking pot, you should NOT be driving because of its distortive effect on depth perception).  I've never been drunk, but can read and evaluate the research to see that moderate usage has some health benefits and heavy usage is addictive and has serious health drawbacks.  If personal experience has a significant impact on the way you read and interpret research, then you are bringing an inappropriate biasing factor to the research. 

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