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Author Topic: Vaccination rates drop, putting more kids at risk  (Read 21507 times)
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« Reply #30: November 23, 2010, 08:13:47 am »

BTW-how does the authorisation for child vaccines work in the U.S? In the UK, if the mother agrees to it but the father doesn't, it gets given by the G.P, but if the mother disagrees and the father wants it done, the G.P will refuse to give it to the child.

In the U.S. it would be anyone considered the legal guardian that got to make that decision.  In cases where there might be a disagreement about medical (e.g. during a divorce) the courts would have to make a decision about what was in the best interest of the child.

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« Reply #31: November 23, 2010, 08:19:24 am »

If I could have had that for my daughter! She is only 9 and she has already missed 4 months of school in the last 18 due to ear infections.

She has my sympathy, especially since that sounds far worse than I had it. I think the most school I missed to ear infections in one year was 32 days in third grade.

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BTW-how does the authorisation for child vaccines work in the U.S? In the UK, if the mother agrees to it but the father doesn't, it gets given by the G.P, but if the mother disagrees and the father wants it done, the G.P will refuse to give it to the child. Apparently, it is the mother's choice, unless there is sufficient cause and proof to doubt her ability to make that decision for her child. Really old law that has never been changed.....

Never having had children, I have no idea. However, decision making authority would probably be decided by the states (as I see nothing it the powers the states gave to Congress in the US Constitution that would allow Congress to decide this for the nation as a whole) -- which means we probably have 50 different sets of rules for it.
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« Reply #32: November 23, 2010, 08:27:33 am »

...As a nurse, I'm at high risk for Hep B, and I certainly don't sleep with my patients, share needles with them (at least not intentionally, although that is one of the risk, but CNA's have a high risk too, and they don't use needles) nor do we do tattoos with them.  The main thing we do share with them is body fluids when we care for them, and the fact that we're the ones that stick our hands in there when the bleeding starts.

When I worked in mental health, OSHA covered my Hep B series for free since many of my clients were carriers...and in the facility in which I worked it was inevitable that we'd come into contact with bodily fluids at some point.
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« Reply #33: November 23, 2010, 08:31:54 am »

I'm going to take the dissident stance here and say that, no, it wasn't a missing "not" this time; Randall would have rather had the vaccines had they been invented, than having mumps and measles.

Sunflower

Actually, I think it was 'I'd rather have the vaccines, thank you', than 'rather have.... than you'.

I had no shots as a kid because my mother had a severe allergy to one of the components and there was no way to test us.  It was hoped that herd immunity would protect us and for the most part it did.  I'm not sure exactly what the allergy was, but when my sister had to have a tetanus shot they kept her in the hospital overnight just in case.  When I was 16 I signed my own permission forms and got the tri-shot at school with no adverse effects.  I'm one of the few people my age without the flat round scar on the shoulder because I didn't have it as a kid.  The shot I had at school was given in my wrist for some reason.

I had chicken pox as a kid but nothing else.  I was exposed to measles I don't know how many times, especially when my brother and both sisters had them at the same time.  I may have a natural immunity to that and a couple other things (including poison ivy), according to my doctor.  I'm supposed to have a flu shot every year because of compromised health but I've forgotten for the last several years.  I'll be getting it this week because I have a doctor appointment on Friday and the nurse put a note in my file to remind me. Cheesy

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« Reply #34: November 23, 2010, 08:35:32 am »

When I worked in mental health, OSHA covered my Hep B series for free since many of my clients were carriers...and in the facility in which I worked it was inevitable that we'd come into contact with bodily fluids at some point.

also, as a healthcare worker, since I am at high risk, and there is always a chance that I'm one of those people on whom vaccines don't work, my kids had the vaccines early cause I'm their highest risk, as a family member you always are.  So if there is bad luck in our family, one of my kids could be their classmates risk for hep B.  The point is, no one actually knows on the playground.
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« Reply #35: November 23, 2010, 10:29:17 am »

No, Hep B is transmitted through blood and body fluids.  sex, sharing needles, and nonsanitary tattoos are simply common  ways of sharing blood and body fluids, but they are not the only ways.  Biting, skinning knees together, fighting, are all good ways of sharing blood and body fluids too.  I suspect your child will be doing more of those three things than you want them to and you don't know other children's status of that.

Even knowing this, it doesn't makes sense to me why a 12-hour-old baby would need the vaccine.  Once he/she is walking, crawling even and might be at risk of coming in contact with fluids from bodies which I don't know, then that is one thing. 

It's also not completely known whether the current chicken pox vaccine prevents shingles or not.  It wasn't even given until 1995, so the kids who got it aren't yet old enough to have contracted shingles.  It is a live vaccine, and since shingles is caused by little bits of the chicken pox virus staying in the body and erupting years later, I wonder how that would work.  Is the vaccine "dead enough" that the little bits don't survive?

Part of the problem with antibiotics is that for years, pediatricians gave them as a matter of course to any kid who had an ear infection of any degree.  Now we are finding out that MOST ear infections resolve themselves in three days and the antibiotics aren't even necessary.  A vaccine might be beneficial to those kids who are prone to severe ear infections, but all vaccines carry a risk and that risk should be weighed against the possible benefits.  It's thought that severe ear infections may be partially genetic, depending on the individual anatomy of the kid's ear, so maybe looking at the parents history, or siblings history would be prudent.

For ME, I'm just not comfortable with sticking SO MUCH junk into a child so young, who's still trying to develop and build a natural immune system.  I'm NOT anti-vaccine, but I think parents should be treated as sane, thinking people and spoken to as such by their child's doctor rather than just having a piece of paper shoved in their face and then three or four needles shoved in their kids without really understanding what the diseases are, what the risks are, etc.
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« Reply #36: November 23, 2010, 11:36:43 am »

...I'm NOT anti-vaccine, but I think parents should be treated as sane, thinking people and spoken to as such by their child's doctor rather than just having a piece of paper shoved in their face and then three or four needles shoved in their kids without really understanding what the diseases are, what the risks are, etc.

I agree with this.  My son's pediatrician always gave me a consent form to review with information about the proposed vaccinations...even those he received as a newborn.  The doc went over the information with me and wouldn't vaccinate until I signed that I agreed.  It was deemed as overkill at the time (my son was born in 1993), but I think the education process was and is important.
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« Reply #37: November 23, 2010, 02:30:55 pm »


It's also not completely known whether the current chicken pox vaccine prevents shingles or not.  It wasn't even given until 1995, so the kids who got it aren't yet old enough to have contracted shingles.  It is a live vaccine, and since shingles is caused by little bits of the chicken pox virus staying in the body and erupting years later, I wonder how that would work.  Is the vaccine "dead enough" that the little bits don't survive?

We know because shingles is the chicken pox virus that has lain dormant for many years and is reactivated.  When people get the vaccine, even though it is constructed from a live virus, people do not contract the virus. 

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« Reply #38: November 23, 2010, 03:27:08 pm »

Vaccination rates drop, putting more kids at risk
Recent outbreaks of whooping cough, measles and mumps may point to loss of 'herd immunity'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40280560/ns/health-infectious_diseases/

One thing I see as an issue with this is the fact that there are folks out there who are so germ-phobic that they're putting anti-bacterial soap/cleansers on themselves and their children all the time. I see it every day in retail.  And it's less of an issue for the older folks, but the children who are very, very young need to build up their immune systems, but with the anti-bacterial stuff, it's just leading to the opposite, since those products kill the good AND the bad bacteria... and leave the immune system weak.  (Not that I am saying you should let your child play in a cesspit or anything).  I am HOPING that the folks who are opting out of the vaccines aren't going to be the same ones who are doing all this anti-germ warfare with their little ones, because it seems like that could cause some hideous complications.

(And unfortunately, my niece is one of those who is not allowed to play in dirt, who has to wash her hands umpteen times a day, who gets doused in anti-bacterial whatevers constantly... and gets sick. A lot.)
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« Reply #39: November 23, 2010, 04:20:47 pm »

One thing I see as an issue with this is the fact that there are folks out there who are so germ-phobic that they're putting anti-bacterial soap/cleansers on themselves and their children all the time. I see it every day in retail. 

It can be hard to find softsoap and cleansers that do not have the anti-bacterial additives. Not only do they contribute to resistance in bacteria but they can be hard on some people's hands -- Lyric's for example.
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« Reply #40: November 23, 2010, 06:24:55 pm »

Even knowing this, it doesn't makes sense to me why a 12-hour-old baby would need the vaccine.  Once he/she is walking, crawling even and might be at risk of coming in contact with fluids from bodies which I don't know, then that is one thing. 

As far as I'm aware, a chunk of the logic is "We've got the kid here, now, and we have no way of knowing whether their parents will come back for any medical treatments ever."

The US has some of the most aggressive (some might say pushy) vaccination schedules, by the way; most countries start with older children and space the vaxing out more.
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« Reply #41: November 23, 2010, 06:36:08 pm »

As far as I'm aware, a chunk of the logic is "We've got the kid here, now, and we have no way of knowing whether their parents will come back for any medical treatments ever."

The US has some of the most aggressive (some might say pushy) vaccination schedules, by the way; most countries start with older children and space the vaxing out more.

And when you consider that we have one of the largest chucks of uninsured children in the first world, and that a family that has insurance and the ability to pay today may not have it three months from now, this logic actually makes very good sense when you are trying for herd immunity.
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« Reply #42: November 23, 2010, 08:22:40 pm »

It can be hard to find softsoap and cleansers that do not have the anti-bacterial additives. Not only do they contribute to resistance in bacteria but they can be hard on some people's hands -- Lyric's for example.

Yeah, and if it hadn't been for my dad mentioning that his hands dry out and crack badly, I'd have never tied the two together.
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« Reply #43: November 23, 2010, 10:27:46 pm »

And when you consider that we have one of the largest chucks of uninsured children in the first world, and that a family that has insurance and the ability to pay today may not have it three months from now, this logic actually makes very good sense when you are trying for herd immunity.

I thought that before 1981 that the USPHS gave free vaccines at schools or other public place.
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« Reply #44: November 23, 2010, 10:59:03 pm »

I thought that before 1981 that the USPHS gave free vaccines at schools or other public place.

Do they still?  I think it depends on the state, the locality and the budget.
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